Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Tha King]

even KD wasn't set on the Suns the way Dame is the Heat.

I don't think he's headed anywhere but there.

[Tha King]

This would be my peak offer for Herro

Simmons, Sixers first, Cam Thomas
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

I think Simmons and the protected Sixers pick is about right. Both are negative contracts with Simmons more so but he also has only two more years left. Given the production difference the Sixers pick and Cam Thomas are added, the latter I think tilts things out of balance a bit so Brooklyn would need something back imo

[Netaman]

This would be my peak offer for Herro

Simmons, Sixers first, Cam Thomas
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

I think Simmons and the protected Sixers pick is about right. Both are negative contracts with Simmons more so but he also has only two more years left. Given the production difference the Sixers pick and Cam Thomas are added, the latter I think tilts things out of balance a bit so Brooklyn would need something back imo

id rather do dfs + royce as the salary match because they have aged out of the window. simmons is younger, obviously higher upside, and expires before dfs' deal (and will match pretty much anything that comes available between now and 2 years from now).

for a non-competing team the move isn't to dump simmons, it's to try to rehab his value to whatever extend possible just like we did with DLo. whether he's a piece here or just a more movable expiring at this time next year.

[ChuckS]

The more I see of the proposals, the more I hope Marks has a better plan, or drops out of this quagmire. And it's not that I dislike Herro.

It seems to me that a facilitating team should not give up more than the one receiving the superstar. But apparently we still have to equal any incoming salary. I would rather see us build with lesser players who will fit into the exceptions available this year.

I may misunderstand these machinations because it is not my forte. But it seems, to me, self defeating to further destroy a really nice, but relatively small core cadre.

Even if for the better, we have already lost Joe, Patty, Seth, Yuta, and probably someone I can't remember. And for the most part thus far have replaced them with probably not ready deep picks, and two seemingly decent but low priced subs. Now we can't wait to dump Royce and DFS because at 30 they are supposedly to old to keep with 26 year olds. We would seem to prefer picks instead of what I believe is a need for replacement bodies to actually put on the floor.

This has dragged on so long that it is probably already a fait accompli. And I'm sure Marks will get other contributors before long. I even think Ben and CT will be factors, But I'm starting to worry whether this team will be watchable. I shouldn't be so pessimistic with Marks, but already so many decent players have gone by the free agent wayside.

[Netaman]

if marks is buying into herro this is what he's envisioning. first video is game 1 of the ECF last year vs boston's defense that made kd/kyrie look like 3rd graders. the variety of floaters in the midrange operating out of pick and roll situations along with the ability to play on the ball is impressive considering we know the real meal ticket is the deep shooting. he missed games 4-6 in that series only played 7 minutes in game 7. had he been healthy heat probably win that series.

second video is game 1 vs philly in the 2nd round. obviously these are some of his better games and if he always played like this he'd be more in demand (and probably on an even bigger contract). at 23 he's the right age to roll the dice on. better scorer on the ball than anyone currently on the roster and i could see him functioning with claxton and bridges out of the PNR just like he did with Bam and Jimmy in Miami.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=TylerHerroHighlights

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ESPN

[JKiddy]

This would be my peak offer for Herro

Simmons, Sixers first, Cam Thomas
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

I think Simmons and the protected Sixers pick is about right. Both are negative contracts with Simmons more so but he also has only two more years left. Given the production difference the Sixers pick and Cam Thomas are added, the latter I think tilts things out of balance a bit so Brooklyn would need something back imo

This would be more fair:

Simmons, Sixers first
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

[Hello Brooklyn]

If Sean Marks gives up anything more than one first rounder to get Herro then he should be fired.

Why not just trade for Dame at that point?

Tired of this BS. Just run the team back and look for the next big star.

WTF is so great about Herro? Hes an overpaid bench scorer. A glorified Dangelo Russell.

There is no way I am giving up Phoenix or Dallas picks for him. No chance!!!!

Bro you are always so dramatic lol.

I mean I mainly agree with you, but so extra.

The answer to your question is yes.

[Netaman]

Even if for the better, we have already lost Joe, Patty, Seth, Yuta, and probably someone I can't remember. And for the most part thus far have replaced them with probably not ready deep picks, and two seemingly decent but low priced subs. Now we can't wait to dump Royce and DFS because at 30 they are supposedly to old to keep with 26 year olds. We would seem to prefer picks instead of what I believe is a need for replacement bodies to actually put on the floor.

i think they let all the little guys go because they want to have an athletic switchable defense at all times. walker is probably statistically the only bad defender left on the roster other than cam thomas, but he's at least long, athletic, switchable, and flashed improvement.

for me personally i dont wnat royce/dfs gone just bc they are old, i think they just dont quite fit what the team needs now. DFS is an older/lesser version of Cam J. Royce is a good complimentary 2 or 3 who can guard bigger but this team needs initiators more than complementary players.

those are both good starting players on winning teams but here they may not even get to start. so it's less about wanting them gone and more about maximizing their value and putting them in situations where they will fit better. if the season started tomorrow they are the 6th/7th men here probably. which would be fine but that's not the best use of either's skill set. if you dont get something worthwhile back i agree you keep them though.

[drchaos]

This would be my peak offer for Herro

Simmons, Sixers first, Cam Thomas
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

I think Simmons and the protected Sixers pick is about right. Both are negative contracts with Simmons more so but he also has only two more years left. Given the production difference the Sixers pick and Cam Thomas are added, the latter I think tilts things out of balance a bit so Brooklyn would need something back imo

This would be more fair:

Simmons, Sixers first
In: Herro, filler (Little or whoever)

It really depends o what the filler is.

Maybe Cam T and a second rounder is where they meet in the middle.

[ChuckS]

if marks is buying into herro this is what he's envisioning. first video is game 1 of the ECF last year vs boston's defense that made kd/kyrie look like 3rd graders. the variety of floaters in the midrange operating out of pick and roll situations along with the ability to play on the ball is impressive considering we know the real meal ticket is the deep shooting. he missed games 4-6 in that series only played 7 minutes in game 7. had he been healthy heat probably win that series.

second video is game 1 vs philly in the 2nd round. obviously these are some of his better games and if he always played like this he'd be more in demand (and probably on an even bigger contract). at 23 he's the right age to roll the dice on. better scorer on the ball than anyone currently on the roster and i could see him functioning with claxton and bridges out of the PNR just like he did with Bam and Jimmy in Miami.

If I sound patronizing when I preface a disagreement, I apologize. But it is not intended. I read and find all of your posts awesome, informed, and educational. I really should ignore the very few disagreements, but it is just not in my nature.

The video clips in your post demonstrate the reason why I like Herro. But I think they also present a misleading picture of his actual 2022 playoff performance. I'm not particularly concerned because he is young and has played in so few, and there was also an injury in 2023.

Basketball Reference shows that those two examples are not indicative of his performance in the fifteen playoff games. He averaged 12.6 points compared to his in season average of 20.7, at 41% compared to 45%.

I suspect the comparison to KD/Kyrie was probably fun hyperbole. But each of them at least had a 39 point game in one of the four. KD's was high in the elimination game. He also averaged 26.3 points, albeit at poor efficiency, which was higher than Tyler's best game (in those playoffs), and averaged by only fourteen others in playoff history. And that was his second worst (to his rookie year) in a long career, which has him fourth on the all time playoff average list. The best I can say is the Herro comparison was amusing.

[Netaman]

if marks is buying into herro this is what he's envisioning. first video is game 1 of the ECF last year vs boston's defense that made kd/kyrie look like 3rd graders. the variety of floaters in the midrange operating out of pick and roll situations along with the ability to play on the ball is impressive considering we know the real meal ticket is the deep shooting. he missed games 4-6 in that series only played 7 minutes in game 7. had he been healthy heat probably win that series.

second video is game 1 vs philly in the 2nd round. obviously these are some of his better games and if he always played like this he'd be more in demand (and probably on an even bigger contract). at 23 he's the right age to roll the dice on. better scorer on the ball than anyone currently on the roster and i could see him functioning with claxton and bridges out of the PNR just like he did with Bam and Jimmy in Miami.

If I sound patronizing when I preface a disagreement, I apologize. But it is not intended. I read and find all of your posts awesome, informed, and educational. I really should ignore the very few disagreements, but it is just not in my nature.

The video clips in your post demonstrate the reason why I like Herro. But I think they also present a misleading picture of his actual 2022 playoff performance. I'm not particularly concerned because he is young and has played in so few, and there was also an injury in 2023.

Basketball Reference shows that those two examples are not indicative of his performance in the fifteen playoff games. He averaged 12.6 points compared to his in season average of 20.7, at 41% compared to 45%.

I suspect the comparison to KD/Kyrie was probably fun hyperbole. But each of them at least had a 39 point game in one of the four. KD's was high in the elimination game. He also averaged 26.3 points, albeit at poor efficiency, which was higher than Tyler's best game (in those playoffs), and averaged by only fourteen others in playoff history. And that was his second worse (to his rookie year) in a long career, which has him fourth on the all time playoff average list. The best I can say is the Herro comparison was amusing.

sorry if unclear but the reference to kd/kyrie last year vs boston wasnt a direct comparison to herro. it was a reminder of the quality of the boston defense. kd by his standards didnt have a single good game vs them. 21 turnovers in the 4 games, shooting 39% from the field and 33% from 3. poor execution down the stretch. his performance that series imo is why he got traded more than either of his trade demands.

also may have been unclear but reread the bold above - i am very aware that this wasn't herro's typical playoff performance. if that was his usual he wouldn't be available. what these games represent are specifically how his set of skills fits with the current group, and that when combined with his age/upsde that makes him worth rolling the dice. the only guy on the current roster with a similar skillset is dinwiddie, except he's already almost 30 and not the shooter herro is. we saw what happens with this group leaning on dinwiddie as it's primary playmaker and shot maker, id be pretty disappointed in marks if he sets the team that up for another full season of that.

[Netaman]

these sort of screams towards adding guys in the herro age range.

Read on Twitter

[Decipher]

The noise coming out of the Nets today suggests that they’re not looking to trade Simmons

Makes sense as his value is at an all time low

[Marvin Martian]

these sort of screams towards adding guys in the herro age range.

Read on Twitter

Not really. He is just saying that he wants to keep his options open. IMO that is a mistake. If Bridges takes another step, then he is wasting a golden opportunity to build around a star on a cheap deal.

[bubonicphoniks]

Whats the deal with Herro. Hes a fine player but I don't think changes this team at all so any assets to get him is a mistake.

Petition to sign Mo Harkless. Why are his services not in higher demand?

[vincecarter4pres]

The noise coming out of the Nets today suggests that they’re not looking to trade Simmons

Makes sense as his value is at an all time low

Yeah, I think it’s the latter and it’s, hey we’re stuck with him so let’s be positive and prop him up.

[vincecarter4pres]

Whats the deal with Herro. Hes a fine player but I don't think changes this team at all so any assets to get him is a mistake.

Petition to sign Mo Harkless. Why are his services not in higher demand?

I mean Harkless is a fine 8th-10th man, but we have those.

[CalamityX12]

Whats the deal with Herro. Hes a fine player but I don't think changes this team at all so any assets to get him is a mistake.

Petition to sign Mo Harkless. Why are his services not in higher demand?

I mean Harkless is a fine 8th-10th man, but we have those.

4/5 starters are those LOL....

jk.... maybe.

[3pt_chucker]

Whats the deal with Herro. Hes a fine player but I don't think changes this team at all so any assets to get him is a mistake.

Petition to sign Mo Harkless. Why are his services not in higher demand?

Are you related to Moe? He's barely a 12th man in today's NBA. He's a tweener wing/forward, who can't shoot, rebound and is meh as a defender.

[drchaos]

Whats the deal with Herro. Hes a fine player but I don't think changes this team at all so any assets to get him is a mistake.

Petition to sign Mo Harkless. Why are his services not in higher demand?

Are you related to Moe? He's barely a 12th man in today's NBA. He's a tweener wing/forward, who can't shoot, rebound and is meh as a defender.

With our cap space opening up in 2025 the only way we take on Herro is if Simmons goes out in the deal.