We have entered the Deal Zone from my friend's friend who is a friend of Mark Jackson's brother - Trade Thread XII

[76ciology]

Im not a cap expert and im not as smart as some of you guys. Do we have around $20M of capspace in the offseason prior to re-signing Harden? Can we use it?

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

[LloydFree]

Im not a cap expert and im not as smart as some of you guys. Do we have around $20M of capspace in the offseason prior to re-signing Harden? Can we use it?

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

No. There is no scenario where the 76ers can create max space without renouncing James Harden and letting him go elsewhere.

Harden's caphold, if he opts out, makes him count for 60 million against the salary cap.

[HotelVitale]

Im not a cap expert and im not as smart as some of you guys. Do we have around $20M of capspace in the offseason prior to re-signing Harden? Can we use it?

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

Nope. Would barely get us any cap space at all, maybe $5m. If we did that, turned down Green's option, turned down options on Bassey and Reed, dumped Korkmaz, AND got Harden to sign for $10m less than his current option (very very unlikely), then we're getting close to a low max of around $32m. But to sign someone like Beal outright we'd need like $7-8m and there's no easy way to get that. Plus we'd suddenly be ludicrously thin, since we're losing 5 rotation players (Tobias, Green, Korkmaz, Bassey, Reed) to get 1.

[76ciology]

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

Nope. Would barely get us any cap space at all, maybe $5m. If we did that, turned down Green's option, turned down options on Bassey and Reed, dumped Korkmaz, AND got Harden to sign for $10m less than his current option (very very unlikely), then we're getting close to a low max of around $32m. But to sign someone like Beal outright we'd need like $7-8m and there's no easy way to get that. Plus we'd suddenly be ludicrously thin, since we're losing 5 rotation players (Tobias, Green, Korkmaz, Bassey, Reed) to get 1.

Ok. Got it. Thanks man! So much help!

[76ciology]

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

No. There is no scenario where the 76ers can create max space without renouncing James Harden and letting him go elsewhere.

Harden's caphold, if he opts out, makes him count for 60 million against the salary cap.

Ok thanks lloyd! Got it

[LloydFree]

There's no scenario in which we have remotely close to that. Quick explanation in case you're interested in seeing why: the cap for 2022-23 will be around $115-120m, and here are the contracts we have now: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html

That shows about $153m. Theoretically we could easily take away $10m for Danny Green's option (though we probably won't want to), and can subtract Korkmaz's $5m too if we wanted (someone might take him for a 2nd rounder or whatever). That gets us down to about $138m.

I think you were proposing that we could save another $46m by not signing Harden right away--which would get us down to like $92m and would leave at least $20m in cap space. Unfortunately for that cap space to be use-able we'd have to actually fully renounce Harden and say 'we're officially NOT signing Harden next year and using the cap space for something else.' Until we do that--and we obviously won't--Harden is covered by what people keep calling a 'cap hold,' meaning the cap space isn't used up yet but is being 'held' for that expected signing. In other words, the NBA doesn't allow for the loophole you're talking about, and cap holds are how they prevent it.

Cap holds are specific amounts of money (I can explain how they're calculated if you're interested), and sometimes you can manipulate them to open up more cap space for FA season than if you just re-signed a player right away. We did that with the Tobias re-signing, for example--though that ended up being an awful move in retrospect since we both maxed Tobias AND used the extra $ from manipulating his cap hold on Horford. But in the case of Harden, his salary is so huge that there's no way whatsoever that we could possibly gain any cap space by delaying the signing. We'll be well over the cap whether we re-sign him right away or if we just have his cap hold as FA starts.

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

Nope. Would barely get us any cap space at all, maybe $5m. If we did that, turned down Green's option, turned down options on Bassey and Reed, dumped Korkmaz, AND got Harden to sign for $10m less than his current option (very very unlikely), then we're getting close to a low max of around $32m. But to sign someone like Beal outright we'd need like $7-8m and there's no easy way to get that. Plus we'd suddenly be ludicrously thin, since we're losing 5 rotation players (Tobias, Green, Korkmaz, Bassey, Reed) to get 1.

I believe there is a scenario where the 76ers could realistically create about 20 million in space without giving many assets.

1 Harden opts in immediately following the season.
2. Trade Tobias Harris to the Spurs for McDermott, then trade McDermott into OKC/Ind/POR's capspace, with 2nd round picks
3. Cut Danny Green before his salary becomes guaranteed.
4 Give Korkmaz away to someone with cap space.

Harden 47m, Embiid 34m, Niang 4m, Thybulle 4m, Maxey 3m, Springer 2m, Milton 2m, Joe 2m, Reed 2m, Bassey 2m,

Total= 102 million.
Projected cap 121 million.

But even with all of that, now you have to replace Harris and Green with 19 million dollars. So all of that work would be to just save luxury tax.

[76ciology]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

[eyeatoma]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

[eyeatoma]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

[76ciology]

How about if we can trade tobi for cap space by the offseason while not re-signing harden immediately? Will we get max space?

Nope. Would barely get us any cap space at all, maybe $5m. If we did that, turned down Green's option, turned down options on Bassey and Reed, dumped Korkmaz, AND got Harden to sign for $10m less than his current option (very very unlikely), then we're getting close to a low max of around $32m. But to sign someone like Beal outright we'd need like $7-8m and there's no easy way to get that. Plus we'd suddenly be ludicrously thin, since we're losing 5 rotation players (Tobias, Green, Korkmaz, Bassey, Reed) to get 1.

I believe there is a scenario where the 76ers could realistically create about 20 million in space without giving many assets.

1 Harden opts in immediately following the season.
2. Trade Tobias Harris to the Spurs for McDermott, then trade McDermott into OKC/Ind/POR's capspace, with 2nd round picks
3. Cut Danny Green before his salary becomes guaranteed.
4 Give Korkmaz away to someone with cap space.

Harden 47m, Embiid 34m, Niang 4m, Thybulle 4m, Maxey 3m, Springer 2m, Milton 2m, Joe 2m, Reed 2m, Bassey 2m,

Total= 102 million.
Projected cap 121 million.

But even with all of that, now you have to replace Harris and Green with 19 million dollars. So all of that work would be to just save luxury tax.

Listen to some podcast (i didnt know if it was zach lowe or windy) but there are talks that executives are monitoring the situation and maybe interested to trade Tobi (very possibly we need to hand the team picks or young players for cap absorption)

[76ciology]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

Thats a good point. But I think when healthy LeVert is better than Ben and Dinwiddie can be better than Ben.

Right now I have Allen (16ppg-11rpg) and Ben as equals or near equals.

Then you factor in all the picks.

But yeah maybe the difference, if there’s any, is not so much with what they gave up for Harden and what they received for Harden.

[Samson]

F Ya'lls I - there is a Change.org Petition to get "Big Fendi" - the dude who went to his Biggest Haters Funeral to make sure that fool was dead and Joel savagely threw it at Benedict at the Harden Trade News ... to get him to come ring the Liberty Bell before the March 10 game against the Nets... === Seems Legit...


https://www.change.org/p/daryl-morey-joel-embiid-getting-bigfendi-to-ring-the-bell-march-10th-76ers-vs-nets

[eyeatoma]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

Thats a good point. But I think when healthy LeVert is better than Ben and Dinwiddie can be better than Ben.

Right now I have Allen (16ppg-11rpg) and Ben as equals or near equals.

Then you factor in all the picks.

But yeah maybe the difference, if there’s any, is not so much with what they gave up for Harden and what they received for Harden.

Ben at his peak is a top 20 player. His defense is better than Allen, he's a limited scorer but still better than him and an excellent facilitator. Allen is alright but not really there yet.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

Nope. Would barely get us any cap space at all, maybe $5m. If we did that, turned down Green's option, turned down options on Bassey and Reed, dumped Korkmaz, AND got Harden to sign for $10m less than his current option (very very unlikely), then we're getting close to a low max of around $32m. But to sign someone like Beal outright we'd need like $7-8m and there's no easy way to get that. Plus we'd suddenly be ludicrously thin, since we're losing 5 rotation players (Tobias, Green, Korkmaz, Bassey, Reed) to get 1.

I believe there is a scenario where the 76ers could realistically create about 20 million in space without giving many assets.

1 Harden opts in immediately following the season.
2. Trade Tobias Harris to the Spurs for McDermott, then trade McDermott into OKC/Ind/POR's capspace, with 2nd round picks
3. Cut Danny Green before his salary becomes guaranteed.
4 Give Korkmaz away to someone with cap space.

Harden 47m, Embiid 34m, Niang 4m, Thybulle 4m, Maxey 3m, Springer 2m, Milton 2m, Joe 2m, Reed 2m, Bassey 2m,

Total= 102 million.
Projected cap 121 million.

But even with all of that, now you have to replace Harris and Green with 19 million dollars. So all of that work would be to just save luxury tax.

Listen to some podcast (i didnt know if it was zach lowe or windy) but there are talks that executives are monitoring the situation and maybe interested to trade Tobi (very possibly we need to hand the team picks or young players for cap absorption)

Yeah that's through Windy.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[bargara]

In line of Zach Lowe’s conspiracy theory of everything was planned for Rox to get good picks in the future which does not make sense…

Did the Nets could had been better without trading for Harden?

Nets could had Kyrie-KD-LeVert-Dinwiddie-Allen with lots of picks and its definitely better than what they have now right?

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

Thats a good point. But I think when healthy LeVert is better than Ben and Dinwiddie can be better than Ben.

Right now I have Allen (16ppg-11rpg) and Ben as equals or near equals.

Then you factor in all the picks.

But yeah maybe the difference, if there’s any, is not so much with what they gave up for Harden and what they received for Harden.

Stop embarrassing yourself

I know that you’re an Embiid stan but just lol

Let it goooooo

[eyeatoma]

Dinwiddie looks bad. Allen is good, but they didn't nurture him properly and he was playing behind DeAndre. Ben is better then all of those players, and Seth helps them a lot. LeVert might not even be around if he wasn't traded given his cancer diagnosis.

Thats a good point. But I think when healthy LeVert is better than Ben and Dinwiddie can be better than Ben.

Right now I have Allen (16ppg-11rpg) and Ben as equals or near equals.

Then you factor in all the picks.

But yeah maybe the difference, if there’s any, is not so much with what they gave up for Harden and what they received for Harden.

Stop embarrassing yourself

I know that you’re an Embiid stan but just lol

Let it goooooo

Who are you talking to, why are you quoting me?

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[bargara]

Thats a good point. But I think when healthy LeVert is better than Ben and Dinwiddie can be better than Ben.

Right now I have Allen (16ppg-11rpg) and Ben as equals or near equals.

Then you factor in all the picks.

But yeah maybe the difference, if there’s any, is not so much with what they gave up for Harden and what they received for Harden.

Stop embarrassing yourself

I know that you’re an Embiid stan but just lol

Let it goooooo

Who are you talking to, why are you quoting me?

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

76

Comparing Simmons to Caris and Dinwiddie is absurd

Ben is gone

People need to get over it

Players are like buses

Always another one coming

[Iverson Armband]

Stop embarrassing yourself

I know that you’re an Embiid stan but just lol

Let it goooooo

Who are you talking to, why are you quoting me?

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

76

Comparing Simmons to Caris and Dinwiddie is absurd

Ben is gone

People need to get over it

Players are like buses

Always another one coming

Tomjas, the jig is up. Leave and let it go

[phillynative]

Stop embarrassing yourself

I know that you’re an Embiid stan but just lol

Let it goooooo

Who are you talking to, why are you quoting me?

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

76

Comparing Simmons to Caris and Dinwiddie is absurd

Ben is gone

People need to get over it

Players are like buses

Always another one coming

I think everyone here is pretty pleased that Ben is gone and what we got in his place.

[bargara]

Who are you talking to, why are you quoting me?

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

76

Comparing Simmons to Caris and Dinwiddie is absurd

Ben is gone

People need to get over it

Players are like buses

Always another one coming

Tomjas, the jig is up. Leave and let it go

Who?

Attitude of some people is just stupid

Simmons is not coming back