Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two...

[theboomking]

2 Harrison Barnes game winners:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9QD-18ad9s&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TT5lYu_NiU[/youtube]

Not athletic at all:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYLvo7ik5js[/youtube]

Barnes is underrated on this board. He may not have elite first step quickness, but has a very smooth athleticism, and has been huge under pressure as an 18 year old freshman. If he is the highest rated player on the board, even at #2 or 3, I won't be disappointed to see us draft him. You're talking about a kid that has always killed the top competition in top prep all star games, won 2 national championships, and that stayed on the court to shoot free throws after a missed FT in a win, at the HS level. Barnes would be an excellent kick out option for Wall, and could help stretch the floor for Wall to drive and for any post player that we should develop. He would pair very nicely with Young to give us shooters at the 2 and the 3, to offset Wall's shooting, and accentuate Wall's passing and driving skills.

[Dat2U]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

[sfam]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

If we could get Deng with a longer game with a pick from this draft, we'd all take that running away. I agree that Barnes looks like he could be a decent player - whether he's Deng or Jarvis Hayes is the question. I do agree he really seems to have the sense of a winner. I'd take him over Perry at this point, but certainly not over Williams.

[Illuminaire]

Hmm. I'd rather have a second banana than a third-class player like Deng. Alas, there isn't even anyone who registers as a sure-fire number two in this draft (though almost everyone in the top ten could easily become the third or fourth best player on a decent team).

Breadth, not depth.

[sfam]

Hmm. I'd rather have a second banana than a third-class player like Deng. Alas, there isn't even anyone who registers as a sure-fire number two in this draft (though almost everyone in the top ten could easily become the third or fourth best player on a decent team).

Breadth, not depth.

I don't agree that everyone in the top 10 will be a starter in this league. I'm guessing at least 3-5 will be backups at best.

[queridiculo]

Euros will be rated higher. That's just how it is. Every year teams are trying to find the next Dirk out of there.

But going back to that Barnes thing Nate and Dat (and anyone else) what's disappointing? Kwame Brown, to me, was a disappointment. Eddy Curry was a disappointment, Michael Olowkandi was a disappointment considering where he was picked. I mean Barnes would have to be a huge bust for him to be considered a disappointment. I don't see disappointment with this kid, 18 years with old with room to grow, high basketball IQ, and humble, judging from his post game interviews during the tournament. And it's not like we're asking him to the be the focal point of the team, we have Wall for that.

What this team lacks most is a steady post presence. Assuming that D. Williams declares, it's quite conceivable that both him and Kanter are available at the 3.

That to me is the primary reason why drafting Barnes at that position would be a disappointment, I just don't see him as a better fit, nor do I think he really addresses a need.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

If we could get Deng with a longer game with a pick from this draft, we'd all take that running away. I agree that Barnes looks like he could be a decent player - whether he's Deng or Jarvis Hayes is the question. I do agree he really seems to have the sense of a winner. I'd take him over Perry at this point, but certainly not over Williams.

Deng=Good
Hayes=Trade the pick.

[Jay81]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

it might be if he is the 2nd or 3rd player in this draft...which he might be

[FAH1223]

Kanter, Kanter, Kanter, Kanter..

[Kanyewest]

Yikes, I hadn't considered the Jarvis Hayes comparison. Barnes' game does resemble Hayes' a bit.

That said, Barnes is taller (and therefore not a tweener who is undersized at the SF position) and younger. He also has a better handle than Hayes (who literally looked like he was afraid to ever dribble) and plays better defense. He also has the ability to create a bit of space to get his jumper off with his legit step-back move. Hayes was worthless in anything other than a catch-and-shoot scenario.

I think Calbert Cheaney might be a better comparison if we're talking about a worst-case scenario. Barnes could be Calbert Cheaney with an extra inch in height and an extra couple of inches in wingspan. Those extra inches make a difference because Cheaney was too small to be a full time SF and he couldn't handle well enough to be a SG. As a pure SF, Barnes shouldn't have those problems.

Jarvis may have been an OK player if not for the multiple knee surgeries. He certainly had Calbert Cheaney upside.

[KiNgSbOi]

Mr. Honeycutt declares for the draft. What are the chances he slips to the second round? He could be a real gem for someone, you know those UCLA guys play good defense.

[closg00]

Re: Jordan Williams declaring, not being ready certainly hasn't stopped kids from checking-out their worth, I'm sure agents are whispering in his ear that he would be picked in the 1st round. If someone as-raw as Seraphin can be picked at 17, Hamilton could be a bubble 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder considering the lack of bigs in this draft.

[hands11]

Euros will be rated higher. That's just how it is. Every year teams are trying to find the next Dirk out of there.

But going back to that Barnes thing Nate and Dat (and anyone else) what's disappointing? Kwame Brown, to me, was a disappointment. Eddy Curry was a disappointment, Michael Olowkandi was a disappointment considering where he was picked. I mean Barnes would have to be a huge bust for him to be considered a disappointment. I don't see disappointment with this kid, 18 years with old with room to grow, high basketball IQ, and humble, judging from his post game interviews during the tournament. And it's not like we're asking him to the be the focal point of the team, we have Wall for that.

What this team lacks most is a steady post presence. Assuming that D. Williams declares, it's quite conceivable that both him and Kanter are available at the 3.

That to me is the primary reason why drafting Barnes at that position would be a disappointment, I just don't see him as a better fit, nor do I think he really addresses a need.

I don't think Barnes will be aRvis. I also don't think a pure spot up shooter is not addressing a need. This team has one pure shot up shooter and that is Nick. And actually, Nick seems to maybe be better at doing it coming off a curl. Craw is not a spot up. Lewis may have some of that left but he is getting old. Barnes is going to do ok in the pros. Korver with better leaps and upside.

That said..I still think this wouldn't be a terrible option either. Point is..there are lots of ways this could break that are good for the Wizards...

This is just playing with the clay ideas. That would be huge PR also. Add the ACC guy and let him learn for a year off the bench. Hell, you could even bring his buddy. All the combos you would have would be exciting. There would be never a moment in the game that the other team wouldn't be on their heels. Wall got gassed against Utah. He played a solid first half. Irving could have helped.

Wall/Irving
Nick/Crawford/ 3rd guard
Booker/Kyle Singler(senior)
Lewis/Faried
Dray/McGee/Seraphin

Hamady

3rd guard could be Martin, Howard or someone else. Hell, Mo seems be hitting the 3 ball. I would even consider him since a solid vet would be nice. But the team needs more spot up pure shooters.

Hell, if it went down like that, I would be more than happy. I like the idea of adding talent from programs you can count on. And if they happen to be ACC guys, they could wake up the fan base again. No more other teams crowds in our house. Home court maters and this would help.

Then like I said before, after Irving has a year under his belt and Wall two, they would both be worth even more. Actually, I would expect every asset on the team to be worth more and Lewis's contract would be in it's last year. By then, they would know what McGee is would be more clearly. Same with Dray. This to me would be a sitting in the drivers seat. From here, you build your championship team by making whatever move clearly makes sense to figure out the front court. Low risk, high reward. New CBA would be in place and hopefully lots of cheap FAs

[hands11]

i may be the only one, but i really don't like the Williams pick. sf/pf tweeners could do awesome - Crash/Marion, or they can fizzle out like Marvin Williams/Beasley. compound that with the fact that we're already GOT a sf/pf tweener already in Lewis and he's immovable because of his max contract, i really don't think we should go BPA in this case. Plus it's not like D Will is significantly better than the other choices available. it's not like we've got Tim Duncan sitting atop the draft boards and we're stroking our chins, thinking about taking that Chauncey Billups kid.

i think this is the year that we package our pick. the #5 for foye and miller was a terrible deal. hopefully this time around we can package the #3 for something nicer. greg monroe is at the top of this wish list.

I'm leaning this way for the time being. Our front court is already confusing enough and with lots of young players they need to figure out better. Plus Lewis is here at least another year. Booker needs space to grow. So does McGee. Plus Dray deserves another summer to see what he can do healthy. They can afford to wait and let this get figured out. If it doesn't and they sink another year, that is fine longer term. They are young and they still need to deal with the Lewis contract. Maybe the contract get reworked and he is your vet range shooter at SF/PF with Booker starting and Perry at the 3. This is an important draft to add assets but I don't I would put it all on this draft. To me, you take a swing this draft and add other solid pieces, then you also have next draft and FA post the new CBA. The youth of this team, cap space and new CBA are what make this situation unique.

This team doesn't need to get figured out this year. They have time to grow and get this right. I was high on D Williams but I'm not locking in on him just yet. Sure it is easy to fall in love with the idea that he is physical but so is Booker and he is playing some SF. If they want shooting range, we can get that elsewhere and Booker can already play the strong guy SF in the paint. What they are missing at SF is a slasher, not power.

Can't wait to see more about Perry as they evaluate him predraft. But players like Irving and Kembra are gamers at guard and can shoot from range and this team need pure shooters from range. Crawford is interesting so far but adding either of these two to the guard mix would make this team better and spread the floor. Crawford brings some good things but at this point I wouldn't pencil for 25 minutes long term as the team gets better. He is a bench player right now who is a shot jacker from range and not that accurate at it. I like that he is scrappy and has some PG skills. I like his game off the dribble. But I'm still trying to figure out the dudes personality. He seems different is some way I haven't figured out yet. That said, Irving and Kembra a pure talent at guard that I think would be awesome for this team and Perry seems to have the huge upside special player and he doesn't duplicate Booker in any way. Perry could be the slasher we don't have.

Trades are going to get made before this team is molded to make a run at a title. But I wouldn't make those trades this year because there is already talent here that needs room to grow before locking in. Trade when your assets are highest if you can and they can wait. Plus there there could be a huge FA class coming after the new CBA

We just watched 1 season of a rebuild. I know it feels longer because of the blow 5th pick but that was a different regime with different plan. Throw that year away. I know it is hard but forget it ever happened. It doesn't count for what Ted/EG are doing.

I can see other ways to do this that seem better longer term than going for D Williams.

[hands11]

More and more I am starting to lean towards Kanter. This is based more on what I've seen from other potential prospects, rather than additional info I have gathered on Kanter. Barnes may end up being a guy like Deng who is a very solid player, but not a huge difference maker by any means. Cannot create off the dribble, will end up being a jump shooter primarily, and be a solid defender. Irving doesn't fit into our plans, Sullinger looks like he may be staying in school, Jones seems like a drifter, Williams may be good offensively but may be overmatched on defense.

Kanter seems like the only guy who has a defined position, with the skills and size needed for that position, and fills a need that we have.

Perry fits that description as well.

[theboomking]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

Just to be clear, I am not lobbying for Barnes to be the pick. I just think everyone is too carried away with Williams, when in my mind, there isn't a clear separation between the top 4 or 5 picks. I tend to like Kanter best, but I wouldn't be surprised if Williams, Irving, Perry Jones, Barnes, Kanter, or even Vesely wound up being the best player from this draft.

And I do agree with you that Barnes doesn't have elite NBA athleticism. Good, but not great. He is very, very smooth though, and I like his perimeter game a lot. I'd like to either come away from this draft with a post presence, or a guy that can help stretch the floor some and keep teams honest, or both. We obviously also need a wing defender, ideally one that also has a little range on his shot.

[pancakes3]

i can say without a doubt that kemba walker will become Ben-Gordonesque.

Irving will NOT be better than wall in any capacity. he's not a pure-vision guard like Paul/Williams/Rondo, and he's not a hyperathlete like Wall/Westbrook/Rose. he's destined for aaron brooks/brandon jennings status, which is good if you're into mediocrity.

the differences between Williams, perry, and the two euro PFs Kanter/Jan are... marginal at this point. they could bust or boom and there's no real way to tell if you've got the next gerald wallace or the next michael beasley. the next AK-47 or the next Nikoloz Tskitishvili. If we can trade down and still get essentially the same player, why wouldn't we do it? Heck, i don't think there's any difference between Derrick Williams or Jordan Williams (possibly available with the 19). I just think that thinking at the margin is a common mistake when it comes draft time, and that with a top 5 pick, we can exploit other teams. flip that top 5 pick in a draft where the talent is essentially equal for some assets.

[Ruzious]

I never said he was "not athletic at all". I said he has the requisite athleticism for a SF on the NBA level but he isn't a special athlete and he doesn't have a great first step. That dunk was off an awkward spin move he used to create space. It shows he's long limbed with huge strides. Very Loul Deng like in that aspect.

Maybe that's his ceiling. Deng with a long range game as opposed to a mid-range game? Is that worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick?

Just to be clear, I am not lobbying for Barnes to be the pick. I just think everyone is too carried away with Williams, when in my mind, there isn't a clear separation between the top 4 or 5 picks. I tend to like Kanter best, but I wouldn't be surprised if Williams, Irving, Perry Jones, Barnes, Kanter, or even Vesely wound up being the best player from this draft.

And I do agree with you that Barnes doesn't have elite NBA athleticism. Good, but not great. He is very, very smooth though, and I like his perimeter game a lot. I'd like to either come away from this draft with a post presence, or a guy that can help stretch the floor some and keep teams honest, or both. We obviously also need a wing defender, ideally one that also has a little range on his shot.

Yeah, I'm leaning toward it not being a terrible thing if the Wiz end up with Barnes. I would have liked to see him do more than shoot on offense, but I saw enough glimpses of skills to not call him Nick Youngesque as far as being so 1 dimentional. And I love his jump shot. Even when he wasn't shooting well for most of the season, I was impressed with his form. He's very PG dependant, and we got a good PG, so he should be effective if he joins the Wiz. I still like Williams better and really want Kanter, but Barnes would be ok.

[Jay81]

what if we traded our first for a first in 2012 draft. The draft looks pretty good from what I have seen

[Severn Hoos]

Count me in among the small band left who hasn't given up on Sullinger - either as a prospect or that he won't be in this year's Draft. It would be tough to go back on his statements given how definitive he's been, but it wouldn't be the first time that a guy said he was staying and then changed his mind.

Watching the discussion around Cousins and others re: efficiency, and the one thing that's clear is that Sullinger is extremely efficient on the college level - I would argue even more so than Derrick Williams, given the weak competition in the Pac-10. He was certainly much more efficient in the tourney than DWill. Of course, the question of whether he will be able to approximate that same level of scoring and rebounding in the NBA is an open one. I happen to think he'll be just fine in that regard.

But - assuming he is a man of his word, I'd have to put my draft board as:

Top Pick:
1. Irving - pure trade bait. Move back a slot or two and get a 2012 1st or the Clippers pick from the Cavs? Heck, go all in and try to dump Lewis' contract. Can't hurt to ask.
2. Derrick Williams - I'm still a little iffy here because of the SF/PF discussion. Love his overall game, and frankly I'd see him spend more of his time at PF, as I'd be more worried about him being outquicked by small SFs than overpowered by big PFs.
3. Harrison Barnes - Understand the limitations/ceiling/limited upside. But he has a defined position, brings a specific skill, and has potential to develop an all-around game. I would not be disappointed in a Deng with 3-point range.
4. Kanter - A bit of an enigma here. Would be higher on my board if I could overlook the lack of exposure/scouting or the injury history. Two question marks is one too many in my book, but I trust the scouts to get a good handle on what he can really do.
5. Perry Jones - Kind of by default. I'll be honest, this is the one pick I'd be disappointed with on Draft night, then hope to be proven wrong. Totally plead guilty to Dat's diagnosis of Kwamblajavitis - I have a full blown case, and really want a guy with passion, maturity, and a nonstop motor. I just don't think PJ3 is that guy. And frankly, the TMac comparisons aren't helping any.

After that come the Euros, but if we're sitting 5 or 6 and the guys above are off the board, I might look to move back a bit and target a guy like Alec Burks or Terrence Jones.

ATL Pick:
1. Chris Singleton - this has been my guy all along. Was headed for potential Lottery pick before his injury. Elite defender who showed the makings of an outside shot. If the improved shooting is not just a mirage, could be an ideal 3-and-D guy, among the best since Bowen.
2. Tyler Honeycutt - Worried about his frame, but those UCLA guys do tend to look better in the NBA than they did in college. Versatile swingman, probably never becomes a starter, but good glue guy to have.
3. Kenneth Faried - pure hustle. Non-stop motor. I do see him as a role player, but at this slot, that's OK.
4. One of the Morrises - OK, confession: I have a hard time remembering which is which. Looks like a pure backup PF - kind of looks like the next Darrell Arthur in terms of potential impact.
5. Jeff Taylor - again, role player. 3-and-D potential.
6. Trey Thompkins - bit of a sentimental pick, now that I'm a semi-fan of the Dawgs. May be the best high-risk/high-reward option at this slot.

2nd Round:
Any of the above who slip could be solid picks at #33. Also like Nolan Smith, his last game may have pushed him into the 2nd round. Chandler Parsons could be a poor man's Mike Miller. JaJuan Johnson needs to add strength, could be a Theo Ratliff-type player. This spot should net at least a role player/9th or 10th Man, IMO.

To me, the perfect draft would be Williams, Singleton, and Smith. How great would it be to add a class like that with defense, IQ, maturity, intensity, and shooting - all elements we desperately need.