Kyrie Irving would rather play somewhere else

[PandaKidd]

Are we playing the "Only respond with a bad game" game?

Yeah he was bad on defense last night. But you must have switched the channel when he took the ball to the hole multiple times, got fouled, or made some crazy scoop shots ?

I will agree with you though that he was awful on defense last night, but so was the rest of the Cavs.

[Jamaaliver]

Are we playing the "Only respond with a bad game" game?

Precisely. He indicates Hawks will 'abuse' a Kyrie led Cavs team in the playoffs.

Spoiler:

I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench.

Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

And then after the Cavs dominate us and the entire Eastern Conference...he's silent/invisible for weeks.

KI has a modest game against the defending NBA Champions and suddenly the All Star/All NBA leading scorer is a bum again.

But if we're ignoring everything that's come before and focusing solely on last night's game...<Sarcasm Font>I guess Steph Curry and Klay Thompson should both be benched in favor of Livingston and Barbosa. </Sarcasm font>

The truth is, Cavs lost last night because they didn't get any production from their bench or JR Smith. They attempted to run the exact same offense they unveiled against the EAST...and the Warriors were ready for it.

The CAVS big three did their part...but the role players couldn't anything going on the road.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Are we playing the "Only respond with a bad game" game?

Precisely. He indicates Hawks will 'abuse' a Kyrie led Cavs team in the playoffs.

Spoiler:

I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench.

Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

And then after the Cavs dominate us and the entire Eastern Conference...he's silent/invisible for weeks.

KI has a modest game against the defending NBA Champions and suddenly the All Star/All NBA leading scorer is a bum again.

But if we're ignoring everything that's come before and focusing solely on last night's game...<Sarcasm Font>I guess Steph Curry and Klay Thompson should both be benched in favor of Livingston and Barbosa. </Sarcasm font>

The truth is, Cavs lost last night because they didn't get any production from their bench or JR Smith. They attempted to run the exact same offense they unveiled against the EAST...and the Warriors were ready for it.

The CAVS big three did their part...but the role players couldn't anything going on the road.

Good luck on trying to paint a picture of Kyrie being the reason why the Cavs swept us when Dennis or Teague matched his production in every game other than game 2.


Your synopsis of why the Cavs lost is so basic and out of touch as well.

Here's the real reasons why the Cavs lost.
-They lost because Lebron has no jumpshot and is unwilling to take jumpers. The Warriors are playing smart D, staying at home on the 3 pt shooters and Lebron's defender is lagging off and begging him to shoot it. They are forcing Lebron to earn his buckets the hard way, in the paint on contested shots. This has always been the formula to beat Lebron and Eastern conference teams never use it. Instead, you see the crap rotating D that Bud uses and they abuse us every time. Take away their open outside looks and the Cavs become an average ISO team with Lebron and Irving taking turns forcing shots.

-They lost because Kyrie is incapable of playing any defense whatsoever. They don't have the luxury of being able to hide Kyrie on a Korver or Demarre this series. They are constantly having to rotate an extra guy towards Kyrie to help him and this leaves a GSW player open. GSW is great at swinging the ball and finding that man quickly which forces the Cavs to rotate more and eventually leads to a wide open look for the Warriors whether it be at the rim or a jumper.

-How can you put the blame on J.R. Smith when he only had 3 attempts? J.R. is purely a spot-up shooter on this team and the amount of shots he takes is directly based on how many looks Kyrie and Lebron create for him. It's on the Cavs playmakers to get J.R. more shots because he's not going to create shots for himself. The Cavs bench made 3 of 10 shots. Their lack of attempts lies squarely on the shoulders of the Cavs ballhandlers. Their bench gets more attempts when Kyrie and Lebron are moving the ball and they failed to do so last night.

Lebron's lack of a jumpshot and Kyrie's inability to play defense will be the biggest factors in why the Cavs lose this series. Lebron's ugly shot allows the Warriors to play the type of defense they are playing which disrupts the Cavs offense. The Cavs having to overcompensate for Kyrie's defense disrupts their overall team defense.

[Jamaaliver]

I'll just add it back to the Predictions List.


Teague owns 3x All Star Kyrie Irving.

Hawks will abuse the Cavs in the playoffs.

Kyrie will never sniff a championship.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Yeah the Cavs big 3 shot 38% from the field on 60 shots, including KI's 32% on 22 shots. I wouldn't blame the bench at all because for one, they didn't get many shots to hoist up, and two the Warriors abused KI on defense. KI looked lost on the switches and movement of the Warriors, and Livingston for sure made him pay. Even Barnes took advantage of him. It's what we should have done, but didn't.

[Jamaaliver]

Yeah the Cavs big 3 shot 38% from the field on 60 shots, including KI's 32% on 22 shots. I wouldn't blame the bench at all because for one, they didn't get many shots to hoist up, and two the Warriors abused KI on defense. KI looked lost on the switches and movement of the Warriors, and Livingston for sure made him pay. Even Barnes took advantage of him. It's what we should have done, but didn't.

That's part of it...but in a game where the splash brothers got shut down, where Livingston & Barbosa had triple the number of points as the entire Cavs bench (all eight players)...it's difficult not to acknowledge the ineffectiveness of Channing, JR, Delly and others.


But from the start of the game, when the Cavs were on offense, it was essentially 9 guys watching the ball carrier in isolation. No screens, no movements, no cutting.

That's a coaching issue. Ty Lue thought LBJ and KI could get to he rim at will and just kick out to the shooters when help came...that tactic was largely ineffective.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Yeah the Cavs big 3 shot 38% from the field on 60 shots, including KI's 32% on 22 shots. I wouldn't blame the bench at all because for one, they didn't get many shots to hoist up, and two the Warriors abused KI on defense. KI looked lost on the switches and movement of the Warriors, and Livingston for sure made him pay. Even Barnes took advantage of him. It's what we should have done, but didn't.

That's part of it...but in a game where the splash brothers got shut down, where Livingston & Barbosa had triple the number of points as the entire Cavs bench (all eight players)...it's difficult not to acknowledge the ineffectiveness of Channing, JR, Delly and others.


But from the start of the game, when the Cavs were on offense, it was essentially 9 guys watching the ball carrier in isolation. No screens, no movements, no cutting.

That's a coaching issue. Ty Lue thought LBJ and KI could get to he rim at will and just kick out to the shooters when help came...that tactic was largely ineffective.

I'd say it's 50/50. Everyone on the Cavs including coaches probably figured the drive and kick offense that bedazzled the EC, would put the same spell on the Warriors. If Lue is blamed for anything, it should be for playing Love and KI in the same lineup.

[Jamaaliver]

If Lue is blamed for anything, it should be for playing Love and KI in the same lineup.

They're 12-3 in the playoffs with those 2 playing heavy minutes...it seems a bit of an overreaction for that line of thinking.

[Geaux_Hawks]

If Lue is blamed for anything, it should be for playing Love and KI in the same lineup.

They're 12-3 in the playoffs with those 2 playing heavy minutes...it seems a bit of an overreaction for that line of thinking.

It's really not an overreaction. The Cavs didn't get a real challenge until they met the Raptors, and it took 2 games of Lowry/DD going off for the Raptors to win 2 games. We all know the EC is weak. I'm sure the Warriors would have went undefeated in the East. The Cavs probably don't even make it to the WCF.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Kyrie with another superstar effort on the biggest stage. 10 points on 13 shots with 1 assist.

You have to play big on offense if you are going to be terrible on defense and Kyrie has looked lost on both ends so far in the Finals.

[Rip2137]

So basically everyone is playing the "respond when my point looks more relevant" game.

I honestly don't know how this argument is still going. Kyrie led the Cavs. They sucked. Consistantly. Lebron went to the cavs and they stopped sucking. The idea that a team LED by Kyrie as your lead guy is not going to win. Kyrie as a role player on your team is where it's successful.

Yes, he has elite talent with loser results. I don't care if Cleveland was up 2-0 right now...the truth still remains. He is a no defense playing, elite scorer that has no idea how to lead a nba team to success.

Saying you wouldn't want him LEADING your team isn't crazy as you guys want to make it.

[MaceCase]

I don't get why it's so hard to separate a guy being really good from him still not being able to lead a good team as the top option. The vitriol from those that took that as a slap in the face is why I stepped away from this thread even when I offered the most perfectly logical situation for that ever to be true.

I've seen Stevie Franchise before, I've seen Starbury, I've seen Agent Zero, he'll I've also seen LeBron make Mo Williams relevant. Flashy talents? Sure, but you'd be even crazier to suggest they were franchise players more than you'd be arguing if they were elite or not.

[PandaKidd]

You guys are comparing him to Lebron like HERP DERP LEBRON LEAD A TERRIBLE TEAM TO THE FINALS, KYRIE COULDNT SO KYRIE SUCKS.

Kyrie is an AMAZING talent, with deficiencies. No one has argued that at all. I just dont think the defensive thing is THAT big a deal when you have LOTS of deficiencies on both sides of the ball all over the league. Guys with KI offensive skillset USUALLY dont play elite defense. Hes a problem on defense, I get it.

Hes having issues this series, in 2 games. Ok? I didnt come in here telling you all how stupid you were when the Cavs swept the Hawks and he murdered Teague.

Also, about the whole FRANCHISE player thing:

Also i dont think anyone said anything about building a team around KI by himself. It was a mere, would you want to get him, and people on this board said no, that he was a scrub, that he was Jamaal Crawford, that he was a bum.

Clearly, not the case.

[PandaKidd]

You want me to admit hes playing awful these last 2 games? YUP. So has Love/JR Smith/everyone else not named Lebron.

[ATLHawksfan21]

:nonono:


I'll just add it back to the Predictions List.


Teague owns 3x All Star Kyrie Irving.

Hawks will abuse the Cavs in the playoffs.

Kyrie will never sniff a championship.

Let's add another prediction.

Lebron and Kyrie will not play for the same team next year. Either Lebron ditches Cleveland or LeGM has Kyrie shipped away.

[ATLHawksfan21]

You want me to admit hes playing awful these last 2 games? YUP. So has Love/JR Smith/everyone else not named Lebron.

Lebron has been disappointing as well. 42 pts on 38 shots with 11 turnovers. Him constantly calling for switches at times where it's impossible for his teammates to actually cover the switch leads to confusion and hesitance in their defense. He then points the finger at his teammates when him calling for the switch caused the defense to break down.

Coach Nick does a great job of pointing this out in this video. Just look at how lazy Lebron is on some of these switches.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z0Eblu1Aaw[/youtube]

[PandaKidd]

You want me to admit hes playing awful these last 2 games? YUP. So has Love/JR Smith/everyone else not named Lebron.

Lebron has been disappointing as well. 42 pts on 38 shots with 11 turnovers. Him constantly calling for switches at times where it's impossible for his teammates to actually cover the switch leads to confusion and hesitance in their defense. He then points the finger at his teammates when him calling for the switch caused the defense to break down.

Coach Nick does a great job of pointing this out in this video. Just look at how lazy Lebron is on some of these switches.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z0Eblu1Aaw[/youtube]

I was going to say taht it looks like Lebron has been taking some plays off, and I think its because hes having to POUND the ball in the post down the lane, its the only way they can score.

KI has had a tough time getting to the basket and their defense has been superb on him. Love has basically become a catch and shoot 3pt person.

JR Smith is the biggest headscratcher to me, its like he cant even get a shot off.

[PandaKidd]

:nonono:


I'll just add it back to the Predictions List.


Teague owns 3x All Star Kyrie Irving.

Hawks will abuse the Cavs in the playoffs.

Kyrie will never sniff a championship.

Let's add another prediction.

Lebron and Kyrie will not play for the same team next year. Either Lebron ditches Cleveland or LeGM has Kyrie shipped away.

Its not the GB but i wanted to ask, if CLE gets swept , what happens this offseason?

With the highest payroll in the league, and Lebron will no longer be THE DESTINATION to go to, what would CLE do?

My guess is they would shop everyone. KI for Chris Paul? Love for Melo? Just spitballing here. I would think there would be a major push to pick up a CP3 if the Clippers would talk.

Maybe Conley ? I think they would be looking for a play maker and not a scorer.

[ATLHawksfan21]

You want me to admit hes playing awful these last 2 games? YUP. So has Love/JR Smith/everyone else not named Lebron.

Lebron has been disappointing as well. 42 pts on 38 shots with 11 turnovers. Him constantly calling for switches at times where it's impossible for his teammates to actually cover the switch leads to confusion and hesitance in their defense. He then points the finger at his teammates when him calling for the switch caused the defense to break down.

Coach Nick does a great job of pointing this out in this video. Just look at how lazy Lebron is on some of these switches.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z0Eblu1Aaw[/youtube]

I was going to say taht it looks like Lebron has been taking some plays off, and I think its because hes having to POUND the ball in the post down the lane, its the only way they can score.

KI has had a tough time getting to the basket and their defense has been superb on him. Love has basically become a catch and shoot 3pt person.

JR Smith is the biggest headscratcher to me, its like he cant even get a shot off.

J.R. can't get a shot off because the Warriors are playing Kyrie and Lebron 1on1 and not scrambling as much as we did. LeGM has built this team with him and Kyrie as the only ballhandlers and the rest of the group being spot up shooters who are dependent on someone else creating a shot for them. The problem is both of their ballhandlers have gaping weaknesses. Lebron can't make a shot outside of 5 feet and Kyrie overdribbles and forces off-balance shots that rarely go in. Kyrie also forces early shots which often lead to fast break opportunities for Golden St.

Lebron is 5/16 on shots outside of the charge zone in the first 2 games.

[PandaKidd]

Think their only shot is to go big, with Moz/TT/Lebron (if love is out) and just hope they can get some rebounds and get out an run