Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[NatP4]

Kelly oubre is our most consistent defender...every game he brings it on that end...
That's the way kwahi Butler george started...
I wouldn't trade him at all...

The playoffs will show jus how good this kid is...

Everything scouts and experts said about those players early on, are things said currently about Oubre. Think about how effortlessly he can score 18 or so points or pull down 8 rebounds. He's starting to play lockdown defense for entire games consistently now.

Seriously, when's the last time Oubre made one of those dumbass mistakes where he gets lost on defense? It doesn't happen anymore. Wait till he develops his right hand, he already has a good ball handling foundation and the ability to drive right. Has the most important thing also, the willingness to drive to the basket and not settle.

As the game continues to slow down for him, he will continue to get better and better. Like you said, wait till you see what he looks like in the playoffs.

Baby Paul George, remember this

Nat/deneem -- I agree 100% w/ unwillingness to trade Oubre. I can't imagine a reason to do that.

But, he's nothing at all like Paul George -- the comparison can only mean that you are too young to have seen Paul George when he was a college player. He had all those things Oubre still has to develop. & if he still needs to develop them, that means it's not certain he will.

IOW, he's a different kind of player from PG -- not "Baby Paul George" in the slightest. OTOH, the kind of player he is, his ceiling is at least as high as Paul George & might be higher!

As to Kawhi, get real. He was better than Oubre in college (plus he had way more experience in high-level organized ball, given 2 college years). As an NBA rookie he played 1500 minutes at an extremely high level -- a zillion times better than Kelly did last year or this year. Kawhi was one of the best 3s in the league as a rookie. What makes him a truly great player is that he only got better when he played more minutes a game, teams had scouted him, etc. I like Kelly a lot, but don't saddle him with comparison to a guy who should be a leading MVP candidate!

"Think about how effortlessly he can score 18 or so points or pull down 8 rebounds." Well, tell me, Nat -- how effortlessly can he do that? How many games has he scored 18 points? How many has he gotten 8 boards? Kelly Oubre is a terrific prospect & shouldn't be traded, but this statement is ridiculous.

Both Kawhi and PG were players that scouts said couldn't handle the ball at all and could only straight line drive. People also said Paul George had low bbiq and would get lost on defense and lose his focus. I personally don't see the Kawhi comparison, but the PG one is close to me.

I did absolutely watch PG at Fresno, I was one of the people that said he was a future superstar even at that time(also said this about Jeff green lol)

The things that Oubre lacks, he will improve on through playing time, court vision, driving lanes to the basket. He's improved massively on defense, he doesn't get lost anymore at all.

But if you say he has a ceiling as high as Paul George but isn't a Paul George type player, I understand that. He's clearly more athletic than ariza, has a better ball handling foundation as well, has massive off the dribble upside, what is that player comparison then?

[payitforward]

...Sorry dude, Denver is not in a desperate mode, WAS seems to be in need of a trade to prevent them from becoming a treadmill team. Their draft slots are now in the 18-23 range and that's those bench role player range IMO. Keep believing Den will cave, just don't hold your breath

The Wizards are a treadmill team. & as a Denver fan, you should definitely know how to recognize one!

You asked what it would take to acquire Oubre. I think the simple answer is that the guys you'd like to get rid of aren't the kind of players who'd bring Oubre in return. Nobody knows how good he'll wind up being, but neither Chandler nor Barton nor both would be nearly enough to give up the opportunity to find out.

Nurkic is intriguing, but so far he just hasn't delivered enough.

As to 18-23 being "bench role player range," maybe you should revisit draft history. Some of the best players in the league were taken in that range or below, sometimes well below. & 2017 looks to be an outstanding draft.

OTOH, I thought the trade ideas you got from Gambit & others were kind of silly. Why would you (anyone) want Nicholson? OTOH, Denver has so much salary flexibility / cap room -- you might actually take him on if he came w/ an additional R1 pick in such a strong draft. But I wouldn't trade our 2017 R1 pick. We need it.

edit: Skywalker, I see it actually wasn't you who came in asking about Oubre -- sorry!

[payitforward]

...I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Nicholson is under-producing for the contract he's on and really is negative value here and I don't see Oubre is worth Barton + Nurkic even if you already have two C. Denver wouldn't accept that, sorry to say.

Taking another look... Skywalker, I think you might be wrong in this case.

Denver has so much cap flexibility, Nicholson's admittedly awful contract might not pose much problem for them. Barton -- whom I liked as a bargain in the '12 draft, btw -- is 26, at his peak presumably, and maybe not someone you'd want to keep when he's a FA 18 months from now. Oubre is a terrific prospect.

I guess it might depend on how much the team sees in Nurkic's likely future development. It's cheap to keep him around, and if he does develop you'll get more for him down the line.

TBH, I wouldn't trade Oubre alone for Nurkic/Barton. & like Dat, I'm not interested in giving our inept GM a way out of the mess he created by signing Nicholson.

[gambitx777]

...Sorry dude, Denver is not in a desperate mode, WAS seems to be in need of a trade to prevent them from becoming a treadmill team. Their draft slots are now in the 18-23 range and that's those bench role player range IMO. Keep believing Den will cave, just don't hold your breath

The Wizards are a treadmill team. & as a Denver fan, you should definitely know how to recognize one!

You asked what it would take to acquire Oubre. I think the simple answer is that the guys you'd like to get rid of aren't the kind of players who'd bring Oubre in return. Nobody knows how good he'll wind up being, but neither Chandler nor Barton nor both would be nearly enough to give up the opportunity to find out.

Nurkic is intriguing, but so far he just hasn't delivered enough.

As to 18-23 being "bench role player range," maybe you should revisit draft history. Some of the best players in the league were taken in that range or below, sometimes well below. & 2017 looks to be an outstanding draft.

OTOH, I thought the trade ideas you got from Gambit & others were kind of silly. Why would you (anyone) want Nicholson? OTOH, Denver has so much salary flexibility / cap room -- you might actually take him on if he came w/ an additional R1 pick in such a strong draft. But I wouldn't trade our 2017 R1 pick. We need it.

edit: Skywalker, I see it actually wasn't you who came in asking about Oubre -- sorry!

Pif and I have a little bit of a difference in opinion on the draft pick thing, but I respect his view and he 100% has a very good point.
here is the thing, Korver, a former all star sharpe shooter, went for a Mo williams and Mike dunleavy and a 2019 protected pick. top ten protected in 2019 and 2020, and if for some reason they don't collect by then it turned into a 2021 second. that pick will likely be a 20-30 2019 pick. For korver. on a great one year cheap contract. So that might tell you how much value guys like Chandler, Barton and nealson will have, barton and nealson are not on probably do not have the value korver does skill wise and chandler definitely does not with his contract and injury history. yes barton is comparable skill wise and younger and also on a cheap deal but he is still a bench level player, while korver has been an all star. Nurkic as pif said has up side but not Kelley Oubre up side. He has good bench center maybe starter up side. Maybe. Yes Mahinmis deal is large but not horrible. and nicholsons cap hit is only 6 mill. Plus all those trades I mentioned are even money deals, so it really is not killing denver's already amazing cap flexibility. but there are down sides that I am not oblivious too as pif points out.

[Dat2U]

Who in the heck is this Nealson cat I keep reading about? Is that Gary Neal's son? Does he play defense better than his father?

[gambitx777]

...I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Nicholson is under-producing for the contract he's on and really is negative value here and I don't see Oubre is worth Barton + Nurkic even if you already have two C. Denver wouldn't accept that, sorry to say.

Taking another look... Skywalker, I think you might be wrong in this case.

Denver has so much cap flexibility, Nicholson's admittedly awful contract might not pose much problem for them. Barton -- whom I liked as a bargain in the '12 draft, btw -- is 26, at his peak presumably, and maybe not someone you'd want to keep when he's a FA 18 months from now. Oubre is a terrific prospect.

I guess it might depend on how much the team sees in Nurkic's likely future development. It's cheap to keep him around, and if he does develop you'll get more for him down the line.

TBH, I wouldn't trade Oubre alone for Nurkic/Barton. & like Dat, I'm not interested in giving our inept GM a way out of the mess he created by signing Nicholson.

I mean I understand, you don't want to give EG a way out. I understand I really do. But at what point do you say look, we want our team to do well. I don't want EG to survive on the Oh he got hurt, and oh we made the playoffs and oh I fixed it with a trade excuses that has been shielding him forever. I want him gone, but I want to do well, I want to see Wall contend, I want to see our guys get the light they deserve. Like its a hard thing to do love the guys and the team that works hard for your entertainment. But hate they dude who rides their coat tails and keeps surviving on technicalities. I see denver as a major possibility as a trade partner. The pelicans are on that list too and a couple of other teams.

[gambitx777]

Who in the heck is this Nealson cat I keep reading about? Is that Gary Neal's son? Does he play defense better than his father?

Nelson auto corrects to Nealson, on my phone a lot for some reason. (it jut did it twice lol) I just don't pay attention, cuz I know who im talking about lol. sorry.

[Dat2U]

Speaking of Denver, they really mucked it up with the Emmanuel Mudiay selection. I remember watching scouting video of Mudiay in China and basically in tears from laughing so hard at the lack of competition. He was literally abusing 5-8 140 lb Chinese kids. I couldn't believe scouts were trying to draw conclusions based on this. I was cool on him as a prospect because not only was he regarded as a poor decision maker, his jumpshot was near the MKG rating in terms of being broken.

Jokic is the bomb tho. They've also got great depth, especially on the wings. They need to put a defensive PF next to Jokic IMO. That and a quality PG not only gets them in the playoffs but potential wins them a series. They are two pieces away from being a 50+ win team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What would it take for Denver to get Oubre from you guys? Any realistic trade where we don't give up any of Jokic, Mudiay, Murray, Harris? We kinda need young SF to pair with those guys.

Don't see them trading Oubre. I really like Chandler as a small ball 4, Nurkic makes sense but unless we send Gortat or Morris there, the salaries won't match.

I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Malcolm Brogdon. Try and draft a similar talent. He's starting as a rookie and he went late in round one.

Jason Hart might not start right away but he's like Crowder--a sure thing contributor.

This is a DEEP draft.

Finally, I would only trade the 1st round pick if we were getting a starting quality player in return.

Right now your 1st rd pick is slotted at #19, do you believe that pick will turn into a starter for you, and in how many years ?

[gambitx777]

Speaking of Denver, they really mucked it up with the Emmanuel Mudiay selection. I remember watching scouting video of Mudiay in China and basically in tears from laughing so hard at the lack of competition. He was literally abusing 5-8 140 lb Chinese kids. I couldn't believe scouts were trying to draw conclusions based on this. I was cool on him as a prospect because not only was he regarded as a poor decision maker, his jumpshot was near the MKG rating in terms of being broken.

Jokic is the bomb tho. They've also got great depth, especially on the wings. They need to put a defensive PF next to Jokic IMO. That and a quality PG not only gets them in the playoffs but potential wins them a series. They are two pieces away from being a 50+ win team.

It was a Jan vesely situation, where scouts were going nuts about the icing on the cake but not trying the cake.
Yeah I think a healthy mahinmi to anchor that front court would be great for them for real. They have some guys they could shed and not miss at all.
Like Nelson (corrected to nealson again lol), like Barton (because they have hella young wings) chandler too, and Nurkic because of the big offencive depth on that team.

[Ruzious]

What would it take for Denver to get Oubre from you guys? Any realistic trade where we don't give up any of Jokic, Mudiay, Murray, Harris? We kinda need young SF to pair with those guys.

Don't see them trading Oubre. I really like Chandler as a small ball 4, Nurkic makes sense but unless we send Gortat or Morris there, the salaries won't match.

I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Malcolm Brogdon. Try and draft a similar talent. He's starting as a rookie and he went late in round one.

Jason Hart might not start right away but he's like Crowder--a sure thing contributor.

This is a DEEP draft.

Finally, I would only trade the 1st round pick if we were getting a starting quality player in return.

Right now your 1st rd pick is slotted at #19, do you believe that pick will turn into a starter for you, and in how many years ?

Gotta have Hart. One excuse I'll give GM's on Brodgon - he turned 24 in December. Usually it's safe to ignore prospects his age.

[gambitx777]

What would it take for Denver to get Oubre from you guys? Any realistic trade where we don't give up any of Jokic, Mudiay, Murray, Harris? We kinda need young SF to pair with those guys.

Don't see them trading Oubre. I really like Chandler as a small ball 4, Nurkic makes sense but unless we send Gortat or Morris there, the salaries won't match.

I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Malcolm Brogdon. Try and draft a similar talent. He's starting as a rookie and he went late in round one.

Jason Hart might not start right away but he's like Crowder--a sure thing contributor.

This is a DEEP draft.

Finally, I would only trade the 1st round pick if we were getting a starting quality player in return.

Right now your 1st rd pick is slotted at #19, do you believe that pick will turn into a starter for you, and in how many years ?

A deal I would also consider. would be Nelson and barton, and Petr Cornelie for nicholson and burke and 2 seconds or Miller and barton and Petr Cornelie for nicholson and (burke still if they want him) 2 seconds.
Petr Cornelie is a french kid they have the rights too and he is good, Big NBA body, should be ready soon, but he would be in a major log jam there. We could probably get him and barton without giving up a first. Nurkic would be nice but make this Petr Cornelie kid is interesting. I think there is something there that might be worked out. Maybe? Maybe we could give up a first like 2018 unprotected and a could of seconds to get barton, chandler, nelson, and Petr Cornelie for Mahinmi and burke. Then they can flip Nurkic to someone willing to pay more.

[gambitx777]

Don't see them trading Oubre. I really like Chandler as a small ball 4, Nurkic makes sense but unless we send Gortat or Morris there, the salaries won't match.

I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Malcolm Brogdon. Try and draft a similar talent. He's starting as a rookie and he went late in round one.

Jason Hart might not start right away but he's like Crowder--a sure thing contributor.

This is a DEEP draft.

Right now your 1st rd pick is slotted at #19, do you believe that pick will turn into a starter for you, and in how many years ?

Gotta have Hart. One excuse I'll give GM's on Brodgon - he turned 24 in December. Usually it's safe to ignore prospects his age.

Thats generally good advice with bigs and bigger wings like SF and small 4s. but guards are a little different?

[skywalker33]

...I'd say Oubre and Nicholson for Barton and Nurkic.

Nicholson is under-producing for the contract he's on and really is negative value here and I don't see Oubre is worth Barton + Nurkic even if you already have two C. Denver wouldn't accept that, sorry to say.

Taking another look... Skywalker, I think you might be wrong in this case.

Denver has so much cap flexibility, Nicholson's admittedly awful contract might not pose much problem for them. Barton -- whom I liked as a bargain in the '12 draft, btw -- is 26, at his peak presumably, and maybe not someone you'd want to keep when he's a FA 18 months from now. Oubre is a terrific prospect.

I guess it might depend on how much the team sees in Nurkic's likely future development. It's cheap to keep him around, and if he does develop you'll get more for him down the line.

TBH, I wouldn't trade Oubre alone for Nurkic/Barton. & like Dat, I'm not interested in giving our inept GM a way out of the mess he created by signing Nicholson.

Nicholson is scoring 2.8ppg and 1.3rpg on a $6M per year contract and your think that isn't under-producing ???? That's about $2M per point and that's pathetic IMO !!Just because we can take it on this year, (he has 3-4 more years of that, right ?) doesn't mean that's a good choice to get Oubre while giving up two players (both adding up to less than what Nicholson is making btw). Oubre shows a nice ceiling, but Barton is already putting up 15/6/2,5 and has shown 20ppg+ potential and Nurkic, when starting was putting up up double-doubles. I have NO PROBLEM not making that deal, guess we're agreeing just from different perspective.

[Rafael122]

I think we can all agree that Denver needs to consolidate and make a couple of trades. If Murray and Harris are part of their future, along with Jokic, then Nelson/Barton/Nurkic/Arthur/Chandler/Gallinari/Faried should be on the trade block. They could net two first rounders, at least.

[skywalker33]

I think we can all agree that Denver needs to consolidate and make a couple of trades. If Murray and Harris are part of their future, along with Jokic, then Nelson/Barton/Nurkic/Arthur/Chandler/Gallinari/Faried should be on the trade block. They could net two first rounders, at least.

Wow, two whole 1st for all those guys ??? Thanks for the WAS talent evaluation there....I can see why the Wiz/Nuggs don't do a lot of deals together !!

[Dat2U]

I think we can all agree that Denver needs to consolidate and make a couple of trades. If Murray and Harris are part of their future, along with Jokic, then Nelson/Barton/Nurkic/Arthur/Chandler/Gallinari/Faried should be on the trade block. They could net two first rounders, at least.

Wow, two whole 1st for all those guys ??? Thanks for the WAS talent evaluation there....I can see why the Wiz/Nuggs don't do a lot of deals together !!

I think only Gallinari definitely secures a 1st round pick. Maybe Nurkic. You'd like have the pair two guys together otherwise to get a 1st rounder back. Barton & Chandler together could possibly get you a pick. You guys held on to Faried too long. Arthur maybe gets you a 2nd. I don't think Nelson has any value.

[Ruzious]

Here's a deal to make Lebron (Cleveland's "Real GM") happy. Beal, Keiff, and Burke for Love, Shumpert, and Felder (who Lebron pretty much mocked as someone not ready for prime time). Listening to media folks around the NBA, Beal's got a great rep and is considered a prime young NBA player - even a "playmaker". Remember, it's not what we think, it's what Lebron and Cleveland's nutty owner think. Keiff is a very capable PF, and Burke is a backup PG who's made 46.5% of his 3's this year, and despite his obvious problems, he's averaging 7.5 assists to 2.4 to's per 35 minutes this month (12 games). Yes, you can always find stats to twist to your desires. It does leave us with a hole at the 2, but Shumpert's a 3 and D guard who's making 40.6 of his 3's this season. Love's been around a long time, but he's just 28 and signed for 3 more full seasons. You know he'll be motivated to do well in the playoffs.

[gambitx777]

I think we can all agree that Denver needs to consolidate and make a couple of trades. If Murray and Harris are part of their future, along with Jokic, then Nelson/Barton/Nurkic/Arthur/Chandler/Gallinari/Faried should be on the trade block. They could net two first rounders, at least.

Wow, two whole 1st for all those guys ??? Thanks for the WAS talent evaluation there....I can see why the Wiz/Nuggs don't do a lot of deals together !!

its the market. Players are only worth what the market dictates. Korver was worth a protected late potential first that might become a second. Tim Hardaway JR is being shopped for a second and they can't get anyone to bite on that. Sorry but it is what it is.

[deneem4]

Here's a deal to make Lebron (Cleveland's "Real GM") happy. Beal, Keiff, and Burke for Love, Shumpert, and Felder (who Lebron pretty much mocked as someone not ready for prime time). Listening to media folks around the NBA, Beal's got a great rep and is considered a prime young NBA player - even a "playmaker". Remember, it's not what we think, it's what Lebron and Cleveland's nutty owner think. Keiff is a very capable PF, and Burke is a backup PG who's made 46.5% of his 3's this year, and despite his obvious problems, he's averaging 7.5 assists to 2.4 to's per 35 minutes this month (12 games). Yes, you can always find stats to twist to your desires. It does leave us with a hole at the 2, but Shumpert's a 3 and D guard who's making 40.6 of his 3's this season. Love's been around a long time, but he's just 28 and signed for 3 more full seasons. You know he'll be motivated to do well in the playoffs.

Not thats horrible for us and gives lebron the most dangerous backcourt duo even better than klay and curry...this is all out bad trade

Our frontcourt defense becomes a turnstile...
We take away the only 2 guys that can get a bucket without wall...

If trading morris and beal rather get an all around player...love is good but not worth Beal and morris, we would basically be making sure Cleveland goes to the finals for the next 5 years pairing Beal with irving