How much is Hardaway Jr. worth to Atlanta?

[niffoc4]

No. Contracts couldn't be signed until yesterday, before they were just verbal agreements. Millsap verbally agreed to sign with Denver, but before things were allowed to be made official via league rules and official opening of signing period in free agency they worked out that trade.

Once the contract/offersheet is officially signed by the player there is no more S&T option.

I don't think you're wrong. However, if the Knicks and Hawks discover a deal that works for both sides, I have no doubts this would become a SnT.

Not if THJ already signed the offer sheet. Now they could work a side deal where Knicks trade something to Atlanta so that they don't match, but there isn't a scenario where Atlanta signs Hardaway now and instantly trades him to NYK. That side deal would have to work under current CBA regulations regarding salary cap matching and the like - THJ's contract would not be part of it. It would be a completely separate deal.

If pen hasn't been put to paper than they can still work out a S&T.

IMO it would be straight robbery if the Hawks convinced the Knicks to trade them an additional asset to keep from matching an offer sheet they have no intention of matching.

[kg01]

No. Contracts couldn't be signed until yesterday, before they were just verbal agreements. Millsap verbally agreed to sign with Denver, but before things were allowed to be made official via league rules and official opening of signing period in free agency they worked out that trade.

Once the contract/offersheet is officially signed by the player there is no more S&T option.

I don't think you're wrong. However, if the Knicks and Hawks discover a deal that works for both sides, I have no doubts this would become a SnT.

Not if THJ already signed the offer sheet. Now they could work a side deal where Knicks trade something to Atlanta so that they don't match, but there isn't a scenario where Atlanta signs Hardaway now and instantly trades him to NYK. That side deal would have to work under current CBA regulations regarding salary cap matching and the like - THJ's contract would not be part of it. It would be a completely separate deal.

If pen hasn't been put to paper than they can still work out a S&T.

On the bolded, why could that not happen? Are you saying the Hawks don't have the capspace to do it or are you saying both sides would "honor" the signed offer sheet therefore it can't happen?

I'm saying, if pen has hit paper but they end up with an amenable deal for both sides, they'll find a way to forget that pen had already hit paper.

[Jamaaliver]

Now they could work a side deal where Knicks trade something to Atlanta so that they don't match...It would be a completely separate deal.

If pen hasn't been put to paper than they can still work out a S&T.

Now that's the loophole I was thinking of.

Similar to how the DEN/LAC/ATL three team trade wasn't really a three team trade.

Just takes some creativity. But getting love and moving THJ would be A-Okay in my book. K-Love is a massive trade chip. In our system, he could inflate his stats incredibly high and be moved next January to a playoff contender for value. (Boston/Washington/Toronto)

[Jamaaliver]

IMO it would be straight robbery if the Hawks convinced the Knicks to trade them an additional asset to keep from matching an offer sheet they have no intention of matching.

Oh, absolutely. But it'd also reflect how much they:

a) want to dump Melo for nothing

b) value any future cap savings from said salary dump

c) have no desire to acquire Kevin Love

[Jamaaliver]

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[nedleeds]

I sit behind the Knicks bench for both games every year here in Atlanta. If you can convince the Hawks to match this dumpster fire of an offer you have a free seat next to me.

[Jamaaliver]

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[nedleeds]

Actually, the more I think about it for the Hawks it might make sense. They have no player with clear All-Star potential. Really THJ on the Hawks isn't hijacking the offense from anybody. If he continues to improve into his prime what else were you going to do? Neither the Knicks or the Hawks will compete for anything of consequence besides lottery picks for the next 4 years. No free agents of any real consequence are signing with the Hawks or the Knicks. Worst case he plateaus and the Hawks farm the lottery in the hopes of hitting an All-Star, you had to spend the floor anyway oh well. Best case he learns to play defense and becomes an asset that looks like a decent contract at $17 million. In contrast the Knicks have a player with clear All-Star potential, everything should be about finding players in his age range to complement him, I don't think a gunner like THJ pairs well with KP.

[Jamaaliver]

Actually, the more I think about it for the Hawks it might make sense. They have no player with clear All-Star potential. Really THJ on the Hawks isn't hijacking the offense from anybody. If he continues to improve into his prime what else were you going to do? Neither the Knicks or the Hawks will compete for anything of consequence besides lottery picks for the next 4 years. No free agents of any real consequence are signing with the Hawks or the Knicks. Worst case he plateaus and the Hawks farm the lottery in the hopes of hitting an All-Star, you had to spend the floor anyway oh well. Best case he learns to play defense and becomes an asset that looks like a decent contract at $17 million. In contrast the Knicks have a player with clear All-Star potential, everything should be about finding players in his age range to complement him, I don't think a gunner like THJ pairs well with KP.

That's a helluva sales pitch, ned.

[jayu70]

Actually, the more I think about it for the Hawks it might make sense. They have no player with clear All-Star potential. Really THJ on the Hawks isn't hijacking the offense from anybody. If he continues to improve into his prime what else were you going to do? Neither the Knicks or the Hawks will compete for anything of consequence besides lottery picks for the next 4 years. No free agents of any real consequence are signing with the Hawks or the Knicks. Worst case he plateaus and the Hawks farm the lottery in the hopes of hitting an All-Star, you had to spend the floor anyway oh well. Best case he learns to play defense and becomes an asset that looks like a decent contract at $17 million. In contrast the Knicks have a player with clear All-Star potential, everything should be about finding players in his age range to complement him, I don't think a gunner like THJ pairs well with KP.

That's a helluva sales pitch, ned.

The Knicks can take Bazemore, while we keep THjr. I'd be semi Ok with that.

[nedleeds]

What else are you doing? Nobody is signing with the Hawks (or the Knicks). Even with THJ you are lottery bound (so are the Knicks). What move is signing him preventing you from orchestrating in the next 3-4 years? Versus if he ends up becoming a fringe All-Star. My main point is this signing takes the ball out of KP and Franks hands because Tim is a chucker. In Atlanta it takes the ball out of Miles Plumlee and Bazemores hands. It's way too much money, that's clear, but what else are you going to do besides hope he continues to improve?

[kg01]

What else are you doing? Nobody is signing with the Hawks (or the Knicks). Even with THJ you are lottery bound (so are the Knicks). What move is signing him preventing you from orchestrating in the next 3-4 years? Versus if he ends up becoming a fringe All-Star. My main point is this signing takes the ball out of KP and Franks hands because Tim is a chucker. In Atlanta it takes the ball out of Miles Plumlee and Bazemores hands. It's way too much money, that's clear, but what else are you going to do besides hope he continues to improve?

nedleeds is sellin', brotha! Get that coffee, closer.

[Jamaaliver]

What else are you doing? Nobody is signing with the Hawks (or the Knicks)...but what else are you going to do besides hope he continues to improve?

Tanking, Ned.

Tanking hard and avoiding bad contracts.

Keeping THJ muddies the water and delays PT to our young swath of guards.

Joakim, Melo, THJ, Porzingis are a likely playoff team in the East now. That likely appeals to management after a decade of irrelevance.

Our front office is already looking at draftees for 2018. At every single position.

[Spud2nique]

Actually, the more I think about it for the Hawks it might make sense. They have no player with clear All-Star potential. Really THJ on the Hawks isn't hijacking the offense from anybody. If he continues to improve into his prime what else were you going to do? Neither the Knicks or the Hawks will compete for anything of consequence besides lottery picks for the next 4 years. No free agents of any real consequence are signing with the Hawks or the Knicks. Worst case he plateaus and the Hawks farm the lottery in the hopes of hitting an All-Star, you had to spend the floor anyway oh well. Best case he learns to play defense and becomes an asset that looks like a decent contract at $17 million. In contrast the Knicks have a player with clear All-Star potential, everything should be about finding players in his age range to complement him, I don't think a gunner like THJ pairs well with KP.

That's a helluva sales pitch, ned.

The Knicks can take Bazemore, while we keep THjr. I'd be semi Ok with that.

Did you say Semi! My Nigerian draft dream of 2017 is over

[Jamaaliver]

We finally have an answer to the original post:

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[nedleeds]

Well $48 certainly answers the matching offer

[nedleeds]

What else are you doing? Nobody is signing with the Hawks (or the Knicks)...but what else are you going to do besides hope he continues to improve?

Tanking, Ned.

Tanking hard and avoiding bad contracts.

Keeping THJ muddies the water and delays PT to our young swath of guards.

Joakim, Melo, THJ, Porzingis are a likely playoff team in the East now. That likely appeals to management after a decade of irrelevance.

Our front office is already looking at draftees for 2018. At every single position.

Making the playoffs and doing nothing is irrelevance, despite our moronic owner and the dumb ass media 90% of Knicks fans understand that.

OK, I didn't know if you liked any of your guards besides DS. The Knicks and the Hawks are both tanking. Melo will be gone, Noah won't play more than 15 games and we're all hoping for medical retirement actually. The Knicks aren't making the playoffs in the Turkish league unless Frank is something special out of the gate. KP will be 22, and maybe could make a leap with some consistency in coaching and not having 2 savage chuckers like Rose and Melo ignoring him but I still can't imagine them making the playoffs. I guess maybe the East will be historically wretched, perhaps the race for Luka will be more hotly contested than the race for the 1 seed.

Anyway, see you at Phillips twice this year. We both might be rooting for losses.

[tbhawksfan1]

Actually, the more I think about it for the Hawks it might make sense. They have no player with clear All-Star potential. Really THJ on the Hawks isn't hijacking the offense from anybody. If he continues to improve into his prime what else were you going to do? Neither the Knicks or the Hawks will compete for anything of consequence besides lottery picks for the next 4 years. No free agents of any real consequence are signing with the Hawks or the Knicks. Worst case he plateaus and the Hawks farm the lottery in the hopes of hitting an All-Star, you had to spend the floor anyway oh well. Best case he learns to play defense and becomes an asset that looks like a decent contract at $17 million. In contrast the Knicks have a player with clear All-Star potential, everything should be about finding players in his age range to complement him, I don't think a gunner like THJ pairs well with KP.

That's a helluva sales pitch, ned.

+1 and a quote, way to smack that down

[Jamaaliver]

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[Crunchknicks1]

You guys matching this? What's the word