Political Roundtable Part XIX

[Wizardspride]

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[gtn130]

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Weird. I thought the Steele Dossier was all fake news

[Pointgod]

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Weird. I thought the Steele Dossier was all fake news

It would be great if our resident Conservatives could comment on Kushners dealings.

[cammac]

Welcome to the past to get to the future!

In every way, Donald Trump is a president built for the past; a benighted, late 19th Century figure who spun his supporters a tale that he could restore a bygone era when coal fires burned, factories hummed, steel mills belched out soot and opportunity and a (white) man with a sturdy back, a high school diploma and a song in his heart could buy a little house, marry a little wife and have 3 cherry-cheeked kids he didn’t ever have to cook or clean for, plus if he can afford it, a hot mistress on the side. Trump is the slovenly but brash, gold-plated emblem of a time when in the imagination of his followers, black women hummed a tune while they cleaned your house or did the washing, black men tipped their hat on the street but didn’t dare look you in the eye, and neither would dream of moving in next door. A time when women asked their husbands for an allowance, not their boss for a promotion, men were “allowed to be men” complete with ribald jokes and a slap on the fanny for the pretty secretary at work, and there were no gays, no trans people, no birth control … they somehow just didn’t exist! The rural folks were the salt of the earth and we only let in “a certain kind of immigrant” whose only goal was to shake off his ethnicity and “assimilate.” Everyone went to (separate) church on Sundays and everyone “got along.” It’s a plasticine world that for many must feel like it truly existed, though of course it never did.

While we regress, the rest of the planet will go right on trading without us. Tariffs on other countries will invite tariffs on us (Europe is already considering levying them on everything from Levi’s to Kentucky bourbon to Harley Davidson motorcycles). And protectionism will protect zero American jobs, while hiking the prices of everything we buy that’s made with aluminum and steel, from cars to washing machines to pots and pans. Donald Trump, who never built a building with American steel—preferring the Chinese variety instead—doesn’t care about any of that. He only cares about the show. And he always gives his people a good show. But the economy does care. And America will pay a price for their P.T. Barnum president and his temper tantrums.

With its broad and seemingly absolute power over the country, the Republican Party may not feel like it is dying, but it is dying nonetheless, at the hands of youth and multiracial population growth. The GOP can rush to install voter suppression traps and other restraints on change to try and keep the tide from coming in. But it will come anyway.

For the Democrats, the challenge is that they haven’t exactly built themselves for the future either. They will benefit from the coming wave because they are the default vehicle for the futurists’ ambitions. But that doesn’t mean they won’t have to change as well, by delivering on the soon-to-be largest generation’s demands, so they truly believe that political participation is a meaningful path to progress.

Perhaps the biggest challenge future-facing America faces is that past-craving America has a dogmatic and consistent voting base and a determined and persistent ally: Russia, which alongside its embedded mercenaries from the so-called “alt right” are harnessing maturing modern tools like social media to keep the futurists at bay. But we won’t have a president who cuddles up to Russia and neo-fascists forever. Eventually, the fight against them and their propaganda will be joined in earnest and won.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-right-cant-fight-the-future?ref=home

[Pointgod]

So much winning!

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[cammac]

USA declares WAR !
Against CANADA!
I want to say one thing if it wasn't for Canada the USA might well have the Swastika flying in all of North America!

Far fetched not really when WW2 broke out all Europe was taken except for Britain which had no resources to fight the Nazi's. Canada provided the food the ammunition, the planes,convoys, trained the airmen from the commonwealth and provided the troops to help defend Britain. As many of you know the Germans were very close to getting the atomic bomb and had the missiles to hit the USA. Canada had been fighting since September of 1939 the USA didn't enter the war until December 1941. If Britain had a fallen the Nazi's and Japanese could well have won the war.

Without Britain the invasion of Europe would have been impossible. We are a 10th of the size but have always carried more than our weight in foreign conflicts. Most American think D Day was the USA which did attack 2 beaches very bravely but the same day the British invaded one beach and Canada the 4th. BTY the Canadian troops were most successful in making the advance on the 1st day.

Sorry Trump just pisses me off!

On Wednesday evening, the president became "unglued," in the words of one official familiar with the president's state of mind.

A trifecta of events had set him off in a way that two officials said they had not seen before: Hope Hicks' testimony to lawmakers investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election, conduct by his embattled attorney general and the treatment of his son-in-law by his chief of staff.

Trump, the two officials said, was angry and gunning for a fight, and he chose a trade war, spurred on by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Peter Navarro, the White House director for trade — and against longstanding advice from his economic chair Gary Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

One non-strategic reason frequently given for imposing tariffs is to protect American manufacturers from unfair competition by foreign companies that pay third world wages or have an unfair advantage because of weak environmental or workplace safety regulations. Obviously, those justifications don’t apply to Canada. In fact, unionized workers in the steel and aluminum industries in the U.S. and Canada are both represented by the same union — the United Steelworkers. And many companies operate in both countries.

Think of that for a moment. The President of the United States announces a new policy that will have serious economic consequences for some of our most important allies and could damage our relations with them, and the Departments of State and Defense are left out of the loop, having to learn of this news just like the rest of us — from the press. And he does it in a fit of pique, because he is angry about other things and just wants the opportunity to lash out at somebody. I guess we can at least be thankful (for now) that he only started a trade war, not a nuclear one.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/3/1746221/-Trump-declares-trade-war-on-our-closest-ally

[FAH1223]

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[Wizardspride]

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?s=20

[closg00]

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Just imagine all the stuff we don’t know about yet? Most corrupt Admn ever,

[dckingsfan]

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Weird. I thought the Steele Dossier was all fake news

It would be great if our resident Conservatives could comment on Kushners dealings.

I think it interesting that people feel that Trump, Kushner, et al are conservative. I don't think they are social or fiscally conservative. I think they are demagogues.

If they were socially conservative Trump wouldn't be having sex with so many prostitutes. He would be engaged with the social conservative movement - you would see him in church, etc.

If he was a fiscal conservative he wouldn't have passed such a bad tax bill. His motives would be growth so he wouldn't be locking down immigration and fYcking up trade. He would be all about investment in the country...

Instead he vilifies groups that can't vote or wouldn't vote for him.

I worry that demagogues become the new normal... vilification of the other side vs. meaningful legislation. It worked for Trump - why wouldn't it work for the next POTUS?

[dckingsfan]

BTW, the opioid crisis is going strong. We lost 42K+ people this year. Mostly low income.

It used to be primarily a white problem - blacks tripled their rate going from ~1500 in '11 to ~4500 in '16.

Passed the 37K car accident fatalities.

Add the ~33K gun deaths and we are talking about and you are over 100K people per year. For the Iraq and Afghan wars we have lost ~ 50K TOTAL.

Doesn't that make these three things more than a damn war? We can't do better?

[stilldropin20]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I didn't get that at first, that Canada was punishing red states...

Very clever!

yay!! this is clearly what we need more of...americans that hate americans.

[gtn130]

I think it interesting that people feel that Trump, Kushner, et al are conservative. I don't think they are social or fiscally conservative. I think they are demagogues.

Did you see the CPAC speaker list? 'Conservatism' is whatever Trump says it is at this point. The GOP bent the knee a long time ago.

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah, because forcing people to face the consequences of their stupidity = hate.

Or responsible parenting. Depends on whether you’ve ever had a toddler.

[Zonkerbl]

BTW, the opioid crisis is going strong. We lost 42K+ people this year. Mostly low income.

It used to be primarily a white problem - blacks tripled their rate going from ~1500 in '11 to ~4500 in '16.

Passed the 37K car accident fatalities.

Add the ~33K gun deaths and we are talking about and you are over 100K people per year. For the Iraq and Afghan wars we have lost ~ 50K TOTAL.

Doesn't that make these three things more than a damn war? We can't do better?

I was looking through the CDC reports on deaths, and the suicide figures really caught my eye. The highest suicide rates are between 35 and 50 or thereabouts. I wonder if this is also where people start to get back pain (because of our obesity epidemic), get prescribed opioids, and then get addicted. Or you refuse to take drugs and are in indescribable pain that leads you to end your life.

I don't know, it's all speculation. We need more data.

[bealwithit]

nate and other Trumpers... defend this please, how can you support this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/index.html

President Donald Trump bemoaned a decision not to investigate Hillary Clinton after the 2016 presidential election, decrying a "rigged system" that still doesn't have the "right people" in place to fix it, during a freewheeling speech to Republican donors in Florida on Saturday.

In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

[Zonkerbl]

nate and other Trumpers... defend this please, how can you support this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/index.html

President Donald Trump bemoaned a decision not to investigate Hillary Clinton after the 2016 presidential election, decrying a "rigged system" that still doesn't have the "right people" in place to fix it, during a freewheeling speech to Republican donors in Florida on Saturday.

In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

I've seen people defending it already, "It was just a joke!" :eyeroll:

[verbal8]

nate and other Trumpers... defend this please, how can you support this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/index.html

President Donald Trump bemoaned a decision not to investigate Hillary Clinton after the 2016 presidential election, decrying a "rigged system" that still doesn't have the "right people" in place to fix it, during a freewheeling speech to Republican donors in Florida on Saturday.

In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

I've seen people defending it already, "It was just a joke!" :eyeroll:

Trump is just a joke, but what he says has serious consequences. Or maybe more accurately Trump was just a joke, then he became president.

A broader point that can't be brushed off so easily is why does Trump praise dictators and cause conflict with democracies(often for little gain). Or more importantly, how could it be OK.

[cammac]

nate and other Trumpers... defend this please, how can you support this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/index.html

President Donald Trump bemoaned a decision not to investigate Hillary Clinton after the 2016 presidential election, decrying a "rigged system" that still doesn't have the "right people" in place to fix it, during a freewheeling speech to Republican donors in Florida on Saturday.

In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

Xi Junping is the furthest thing from a reformer in China since he has taken power he has stripped all opposition. He has cleverly done it under the guise of ending corruption which he has done to the opposition. The Chinese economy isn't that buoyant many of the jobs that required significant amounts of labor such as clothing have moved to more cost effective countries such as Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and Bangladesh.China is becoming more and more dependent on internal consumption rather than exports. In compensation the government has become extremely nationalistic becoming more aggressive in the South China Sea. Xi Junping is Chinese Royalty since his father was a major player in the Maoist dynasty. He has viciously put down political movements in Hong Kong in the fear that it will spread to other parts of China. Many of the minorities like the Tibetans and Muslim Uighurs in North West China. Religious freedom has been crushed with pro government figureheads running many of the religions in China. He is fulfilling his fathers dream of becoming Chairman and supreme ruler of China.

[montestewart]

nate and other Trumpers... defend this please, how can you support this?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/index.html

President Donald Trump bemoaned a decision not to investigate Hillary Clinton after the 2016 presidential election, decrying a "rigged system" that still doesn't have the "right people" in place to fix it, during a freewheeling speech to Republican donors in Florida on Saturday.

In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

Xi Junping is the furthest thing from a reformer in China since he has taken power he has stripped all opposition. He has cleverly done it under the guise of ending corruption which he has done to the opposition. The Chinese economy isn't that buoyant many of the jobs that required significant amounts of labor such as clothing have moved to more cost effective countries such as Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and Bangladesh.China is becoming more and more dependent on internal consumption rather than exports. In compensation the government has become extremely nationalistic becoming more aggressive in the South China Sea. Xi Junping is Chinese Royalty since his father was a major player in the Maoist dynasty. He has viciously put down political movements in Hong Kong in the fear that it will spread to other parts of China. Many of the minorities like the Tibetans and Muslim Uighurs in North West China. Religious freedom has been crushed with pro government figureheads running many of the religions in China. He is fulfilling his fathers dream of becoming Chairman and supreme ruler of China.

Good model for Trump