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bakafool wrote:

RaptorPride wrote:

VinBaker6 wrote:Having Tent guard DD down the stretch was a huge mistake.

I swear he made the clutch shots down the stretch on Barnes and OG

On Barnes? Can't recall.

ye he did, barnes defense was actually pretty good but he definitely hit one over him

i just wish we would let our 4th overall pick touch the ball as much as precious does, thats all i ask honestly

edit: at this point i would rather have him on the second unit getting all the touches he needs, wins be damned.

rapsincr wrote:

bakafool wrote:

RaptorPride wrote:I swear he made the clutch shots down the stretch on Barnes and OG

On Barnes? Can't recall.

ye he did, barnes defense was actually pretty good but he definitely hit one over him

Derozan cooked all 3 with ease: OG, Barnes and GTJ.

I have a gut feeling that having Birch start due to familiarity and Precious off the bench providing energy/hustle and playing with Goran would fix some of this teams issues.
If the goal is to develop Precious, then. I’m fine with it.
I’d rather see Scottie taking the ball up court after rebounds and making decisions as opposed to Precious. Although, I love that part of PA’s game, it might be more beneficial to have him going against bench players.
It does seem like we’re sacrificing wins for development.

canz55 wrote:I can see the Pacers stealing another game on Wednesday because of our lack of frontcourt shot-blocking with our guys constantly having to recover on the wings.

I wouldn't be surprised if Myles Turner gets 10 blocks.

Man Boucher makes so many mistakes that it’s hurting the team. I think they will trade him this year.

dgr81 wrote:

Read on Twitter

i kind of feel bad for him

Malachi was pretty terrible during preseason. He needs to earn minutes

2019nbachamps wrote:Why did Barnes only take 8 shots? Lack of assertiveness or wasn’t getting passes?

FVV was being a ball hog tonight. Don't let the box score deceive you. He was terrible outside the 4th quarter.

I'm feeling better about our offence after the first game. We've scored 25+ points in 8 of the last 12 quarters with two of those coming against the Mavs while we were on the 2nd night of a B2B (both in the 2nd half too) and we scored 23 and 24 points in the other 2 quarters. We still have those lulls for 4-5 minutes where we only score 2 or 3 points, but our outside shooting came around tonight (12/30) and we're dominating the boards so far this season (#2 OREB%, #5 DREB%, #2 overall). We just really need some consistency off the bench. Birch has been up and down while Dragic and Boucher have been terrible shooting the ball (32% and 28% respectively). Svi has shot the ball pretty well (5/13 on 3FGA), but he's also turned the ball over 5 times and most of which have been careless plays. His defence also leaves a lot to be desired.

With better bench play, we probably would have won the last two games.

Scottie still learning to play defense in this league. Tonight after Demar got him with a pump fake, he began defending him just with arms stretched and not jumping. Not a bad thing to do, but once he figures out when to jump he'll be even better. Demar got a single shot on him in the 4th.

mdenny wrote:

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:
He had some assists where he created the offensive opportunity by himself (for Achiuwa and Birch) - just not 17. But he did make all 8 turnovers though.

he has some really decent passes when he was the guy going from hockey assist to actual assist. like passes made to FVV and seconds later he finds the guy like Birch in the paint a couple of times. but not plays initiated by FVV. when he plays in part of the play, he's great, like Lowry but when he is the one who initiates the play, its kinda mediocre.

I'm at TSN tonight. Of the 14 assists Fred had in the first 3 quarters.....7 of them resulted in open shots less than 5 feet from the basket on plays he initiated. A PG has a decent night if they get 3 or 4 of those per game. Fred had 7 after 3 quarters.

Q1.
7:28 FVV drove/initiated
2:06 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
1:08 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
0:22 FVV drove/initiated

Q2
7:48 OG scored from his own drive at top of key

Q3
10:25 FVV drove/initiated
6:31 Barnes drove from the top of key on his own drive


those were the assists that resulted a score in the paint. out of all of them 3 were plays initiated and drove by FVV. OG and Barnes took the pass from FVV and they started their own at the top 3 point line themselves - FVV had nothing to do with those plays.

2019nbachamps wrote:Why did Barnes only take 8 shots? Lack of assertiveness or wasn’t getting passes?

you can say both, he'll pass when he has an opportunity to drive, and he'll post up a guard and they wont give him the ball

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:

mdenny wrote:

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
he has some really decent passes when he was the guy going from hockey assist to actual assist. like passes made to FVV and seconds later he finds the guy like Birch in the paint a couple of times. but not plays initiated by FVV. when he plays in part of the play, he's great, like Lowry but when he is the one who initiates the play, its kinda mediocre.

I'm at TSN tonight. Of the 14 assists Fred had in the first 3 quarters.....7 of them resulted in open shots less than 5 feet from the basket on plays he initiated. A PG has a decent night if they get 3 or 4 of those per game. Fred had 7 after 3 quarters.

Q1.
7:28 FVV drove/initiated
2:06 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
1:08 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
0:22 FVV drove/initiated

Q2
7:48 OG scored from his own drive at top of key

Q3
10:25 FVV drove/initiated
6:31 Barnes drove from the top of key on his own drive


those were the assists that resulted a score in the paint. out of all of them 3 were plays initiated and drove by FVV. OG and Barnes took the pass from FVV and they started their own at the top 3 point line themselves - FVV had nothing to do with those plays.

I saw them in clip form so I probably didn't see the initial drive on some of the plays. In anycase...we're kinda splitting hairs. The game thread, like the celtic one, is there for everyone to read. The irrational Fred critiques are out of control. We have too many ppl who are only here for player-agendas and they are seeing what they want to see in that regard.

it's a called a moral wictory. Bro do you even do post games?

YelloC wrote:I have a gut feeling that having Birch start due to familiarity and Precious off the bench providing energy/hustle and playing with Goran would fix some of this teams issues.
If the goal is to develop Precious, then. I’m fine with it.
I’d rather see Scottie taking the ball up court after rebounds and making decisions as opposed to Precious. Although, I love that part of PA’s game, it might be more beneficial to have him going against bench players.
It does seem like we’re sacrificing wins for development.

I expected Birch to start because I didn't think Achiuwa would be ready to be the full-time C right out of the gates, but I've been impressed so far. He is missing an insane amount of shots from in close and his 44 TS% leaves a lot to be desired, but his energy and feel for the game has been excellent for the most part. He's putting up 10.5/11/2 in 26 MPG while sporting the 3rd best NetRTG on the team at +4.6.

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pingpongrac wrote:

mrdressup wrote:

mdenny wrote:Fred was by far our best player tonight. This game and the celtics game were both outstanding.

Siakam plays, we win.

Precious is REALLY raw in terms of converting lobs and fast breaks but that's the type of thing that can get better with practise.

Scotty looked a little off. Didn't look like he was having as much fun.

Fred was horrible if you ask me. He got assists from passing to iso heavy shooters like Trent and OG instead of heaving his own shots today. It's basically an indictment on the fact our offense has no ball movement and how much time Fred spends with the ball in his hands. He's almost always the second last guy to have touched the ball, which will lead to a lot of assists, and probably a lot of losses. The whole game was a comedy of errors.

Jesus. The hate for FVV is ridiculous. He was feeding Birch and Achiuwa inside all night (though Achiuwa struggled to finish), found wide open shooters for multiple threes (Boucher, OG a few times, GTJ) and had a great pass to a cutting OG in Q3 while we were scuffling. Not only did he have 17 assists, but he had numerous hockey assists too.

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He could produce even more if Nurse would just play him 48 minutes. We are being denied even better FVV numbers.

mdenny wrote:

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:

mdenny wrote:

I'm at TSN tonight. Of the 14 assists Fred had in the first 3 quarters.....7 of them resulted in open shots less than 5 feet from the basket on plays he initiated. A PG has a decent night if they get 3 or 4 of those per game. Fred had 7 after 3 quarters.

Q1.
7:28 FVV drove/initiated
2:06 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
1:08 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
0:22 FVV drove/initiated

Q2
7:48 OG scored from his own drive at top of key

Q3
10:25 FVV drove/initiated
6:31 Barnes drove from the top of key on his own drive


those were the assists that resulted a score in the paint. out of all of them 3 were plays initiated and drove by FVV. OG and Barnes took the pass from FVV and they started their own at the top 3 point line themselves - FVV had nothing to do with those plays.

I saw them in clip form so I probably didn't see the initial drive on some of the plays. In anycase...we're kinda splitting hairs. The game thread, like the celtic one, is there for everyone to read. The irrational Fred critiques are out of control. We have too many ppl who are only here for player-agendas and they are seeing what they want to see in that regard.

FVV played like a different player in the 4th. thats the frustrating part. the team and offense was stagnant in the first 3. I felt FVV should have had Barnes initiate more plays and FVV getting free to shoot 3s. and FVV had some wide open shots - which were good shots for him - and he turned them down for whatever reason.

I can’t believe Dragic is this washed. Either he’s done or he just doesn’t give a damn. Not helping his trade value at all.

Know it was time to move on from Lowry but it doesn’t feel right not having him out there

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:

mdenny wrote:

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
he has some really decent passes when he was the guy going from hockey assist to actual assist. like passes made to FVV and seconds later he finds the guy like Birch in the paint a couple of times. but not plays initiated by FVV. when he plays in part of the play, he's great, like Lowry but when he is the one who initiates the play, its kinda mediocre.

I'm at TSN tonight. Of the 14 assists Fred had in the first 3 quarters.....7 of them resulted in open shots less than 5 feet from the basket on plays he initiated. A PG has a decent night if they get 3 or 4 of those per game. Fred had 7 after 3 quarters.

Q1.
7:28 FVV drove/initiated
2:06 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
1:08 Dragic initiated (drove and kicked out)
0:22 FVV drove/initiated

Q2
7:48 OG scored from his own drive at top of key

Q3
10:25 FVV drove/initiated
6:31 Barnes drove from the top of key on his own drive


those were the assists that resulted a score in the paint. out of all of them 3 were plays initiated and drove by FVV. OG and Barnes took the pass from FVV and they started their own at the top 3 point line themselves - FVV had nothing to do with those plays.

Some of those plays you highlighted were largely FVV's doing. In the first clip that Dragic "initiated," FVV was moving around off-ball then drew in Birch's defender before immediately slipping the pass to him. That was way more FVV's doing than Dragic. The next play was just good ball movement all around and the pass to Barnes in transition in Q3 was just a good read that allowed him to waltz into the paint because Chicago's defence was caught off guard.

Regardless, why spend so much time analysing these plays for FVV only? Do you really think 100% of a typical PG's assists are from plays that they initiated?

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We started 2-8 last year I guess.

I am wondering if we have no choice but to be team tWo this year or not…