Why can't the Timberwolves put something good together?

[AbeVigodaLive]

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Wait... is that better or worse than they were prior to the tweet?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm pretty sure at one point the Wolves had 3 number 1 picks on their roster (KAT, Wiggins, Bennett) Rubio and had just had the number 5 pick (which they used for Dunn).

and the sum of those assets is a single play off appearance by the skin of their teeth, and even that was down to shoving butler into the line up.

They need a top to bottom clean out, I wouldn't even keep the mascot.

[Jay_Sizzle]

Tough to say, but KAT has an incredible difference on offense and defense. One of the best on offense in the league, but has no idea what he is doing on defense. When your bigs are out of position, it screws up the entire defense. I was thinking he would improve his intelligence to at least be serviceable (a la James Harden, Devin Booker, and others) -- but it just hasn't happened. It really caps the team. Even in a stellar offensive year, they probably can only get to about .500.

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Defense is a team sport in NBA. Sadly Wolves brass lack of ability to build a team around Towns is just plain sickening. Could Towns be better on D as a individual? No doubt. But why doesn’t the teams best player for last 7 years not get a roster to help his weakness, showcase and exploit his strengths, and in doing so — the roster be customized to one Karl Anthony Towns?

I'm not sure how you customize the roster to support a player doing whatever he wants on defense. For example in last night's very close game against Phoenix
1. Twice KAT stayed in the backcourt whining to officials while Phoenix pushed the ball
2. Deciding to pick up the PG on defense (Paul/Booker) instead of a big man.this left McDaniels/Beasley and even Beverley trying to guard Ayton/McGee. Led to easy points for the big men in a mismatch. Sometimes this happens on a switch, but KAT just decided to take the guard without a screen -- leaving his 4 teammates to figure out a plan to guard the other 4 offensive players.

Throw in several untimely offensive fouls and a ton of isolation, one-on-one play on offense and I am not sure whom you are looking for to play with him. I guess you are looking for shooters that can switch and guard the 5, and are comfortable not touching the ball for several possessions in a row. Certainly not looking for young players that like to create like Anthony Edwards -- he looked visibly disengaged and outright bored with iso Towns ball last night. He doesn't even cut to the hoop, where I think he could be one of the best in the game with some coaching. Russell could be much more useful creating with the ball, instead of standing at the 3 point line waiting.

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[Wolveswin]

Tough to say, but KAT has an incredible difference on offense and defense. One of the best on offense in the league, but has no idea what he is doing on defense. When your bigs are out of position, it screws up the entire defense. I was thinking he would improve his intelligence to at least be serviceable (a la James Harden, Devin Booker, and others) -- but it just hasn't happened. It really caps the team. Even in a stellar offensive year, they probably can only get to about .500.

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Defense is a team sport in NBA. Sadly Wolves brass lack of ability to build a team around Towns is just plain sickening. Could Towns be better on D as a individual? No doubt. But why doesn’t the teams best player for last 7 years not get a roster to help his weakness, showcase and exploit his strengths, and in doing so — the roster be customized to one Karl Anthony Towns?

I'm not sure how you customize the roster to support a player doing whatever he wants on defense. For example in last night's very close game against Phoenix
1. Twice KAT stayed in the backcourt whining to officials while Phoenix pushed the ball
2. Deciding to pick up the PG on defense (Paul/Booker) instead of a big man.this left McDaniels/Beasley and even Beverley trying to guard Ayton/McGee. Led to easy points for the big men in a mismatch. Sometimes this happens on a switch, but KAT just decided to take the guard without a screen -- leaving his 4 teammates to figure out a plan to guard the other 4 offensive players.

Throw in several untimely offensive fouls and a ton of isolation, one-on-one play on offense and I am not sure whom you are looking for to play with him. I guess you are looking for shooters that can switch and guard the 5, and are comfortable not touching the ball for several possessions in a row. Certainly not looking for young players that like to create like Anthony Edwards -- he looked visibly disengaged and outright bored with iso Towns ball last night. He doesn't even cut to the hoop, where I think he could be one of the best in the game with some coaching. Russell could be much more useful creating with the ball, instead of standing at the 3 point line waiting.

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This is a very weird breakdown. Of one game in which a) Towns played great overall and b) his team which is a major down swing/funk barely lost to the 2nd place team from last year. Very agenda driven breakdown, overly trying to find plays that fit your POV.

Not sure why. One could do this with every player and every game. Seems like a pointless activity.

Now, back to a more meaningful discussion…

[Wolveswin]

I'm pretty sure at one point the Wolves had 3 number 1 picks on their roster (KAT, Wiggins, Bennett) Rubio and had just had the number 5 pick (which they used for Dunn).

and the sum of those assets is a single play off appearance by the skin of their teeth, and even that was down to shoving butler into the line up.

They need a top to bottom clean out, I wouldn't even keep the mascot.

It’s amazing how many organizations have this same lineage. For every rare Warriors or Suns (but really only have succeeded with FA Paul) organization successfully building through the draft, multiple orangizations lay in ruins from years of failing to build a winning organization with consecutive top 5 picks (including the Wolves at least 3 times).

I think the Lakers most recent exhibit A is compelling to the state of NBA roster building.
#7 Randle
#2 Russell
#2 Ingram
#2 Ball
#4 (Traded)

They failed at building a winning roster with their own draft picks. It took using the legacy of Lakers and draw of Hollywood to get the best player in the NBA to sign with them, then use #2 + #2 + #4 plus more assets (including mortgaging future draft capital) for another top 5 player in Davis. Then and only then they produce a championship.

For the Wolves, I think sadly, they have to give the draft crap shoot another try.

[aguiar95]

Based on how the season has gone, the Wolves made the right choice (for now) of not trading for Simmons. KAT is displaying a very concearning lack of attitude to be the leader of this group. Mortgaging your future for a playoff appearance should never be the answer.

[zeebneeb]

Simple answer to a seemingly tough question.

Talent doesn't win games, the will to win, and competitive spirit wins games. When you combine those two, you get playoff and title teams.

The players on the team, either thru youth, lack of competitiveness, and willing to do what it takes to win, or both, are to blame.

This is why I have always said that I would take a player who clearly doesn't have as much natural talent as some players, but wants to win so badly he makes the whole team better, then some supremely talented lackadaisical bum.

The players on the Wolves don't care.

[Sixerscan]

Think it can all be traced back to trading a future all star and a top 10 pick for Butler and then getting role players for him. There's other stuff like injuries, some bad picks and somehow turning Wiggins into an even worse situation, but the way the whole Butler thing went was kind of a fork in the road moment for them.

You can also say the way the way the Bulls, Sixers and Heat handled the Jimmy Butler experience were also forks in the road for those franchises (the Heat in a good way). He's had a wild career.

[Wolveswin]

Think it can all be traced back to trading a future all star and a top 10 pick for Butler and then getting role players for him. There's other stuff like injuries, some bad picks and somehow turning Wiggins into an even worse situation, but the way the whole Butler thing went was kind of a fork in the road moment for them.

You can also say the way the way the Bulls, Sixers and Heat handled the Jimmy Butler experience were also forks in the road for those franchises (the Heat in a good way). He's had a wild career.

2017 was a turning point, one that without an owner making personnel decision could have changed the whole franchise around for the positive!

Wiggins + Dunn would have gotten Butler straight up (no need of #7 for #16 swap as it did).

Wolves could have stopped there, OR, in a offseason that saw George, Paul, Irving traded for less than Wolves offer: #7 + Rubio (expiring contract filler) + All own Wolves’ 1sts (as needed).

Could Butler have recruited any of those 3?

Towns
Dieng|Gibson
George
LaVine
Butler

Towns
Dieng/Gibson
Butler
LaVine
Paul

Towns
Dieng/Gibson
Butler
LaVine
Irving

[Jadoogar]

Wolves need a veteran player, preferably a point guard. Look at what Chris Paul has done for the Suns or what Rubio has done for the Cavs.
KAT seems to take the back seat and DLO is more than happy to take over which is not the best play. They need a steady PG to get the ball to their best player on the team in crunch time.

If it's not a star guard like Ben Simmons or whatever, atleast try and get just someone steady. Even Dragic would be an upgrade.

[whatisacenter]

Wolves need a veteran player, preferably a point guard. Look at what Chris Paul has done for the Suns or what Rubio has done for the Cavs.
KAT seems to take the back seat and DLO is more than happy to take over which is not the best play. They need a steady PG to get the ball to their best player on the team in crunch time.

If it's not a star guard like Ben Simmons or whatever, atleast try and get just someone steady. Even Dragic would be an upgrade.

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

[Jadoogar]

Wolves need a veteran player, preferably a point guard. Look at what Chris Paul has done for the Suns or what Rubio has done for the Cavs.
KAT seems to take the back seat and DLO is more than happy to take over which is not the best play. They need a steady PG to get the ball to their best player on the team in crunch time.

If it's not a star guard like Ben Simmons or whatever, atleast try and get just someone steady. Even Dragic would be an upgrade.

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

yea i really hated that trade. Rubio didn't help much last year but they whole season was a mess, i don't think you can learn anything from that. They should have given Rubio one more year.

[Sixerscan]

Wolves need a veteran player, preferably a point guard. Look at what Chris Paul has done for the Suns or what Rubio has done for the Cavs.
KAT seems to take the back seat and DLO is more than happy to take over which is not the best play. They need a steady PG to get the ball to their best player on the team in crunch time.

If it's not a star guard like Ben Simmons or whatever, atleast try and get just someone steady. Even Dragic would be an upgrade.

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

yea i really hated that trade. Rubio didn't help much last year but they whole season was a mess, i don't think you can learn anything from that. They should have given Rubio one more year.

Towns and Russell are old enough where they shouldn't need anyone to hold their hand to not be terrible. Paul helped the Suns get to the Finals but they were at least a mediocre team before he showed up.

[Jadoogar]

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

yea i really hated that trade. Rubio didn't help much last year but they whole season was a mess, i don't think you can learn anything from that. They should have given Rubio one more year.

Towns and Russell are old enough where they shouldn't need anyone to hold their hand to not be terrible. Paul helped the Suns get to the Finals but they were at least a mediocre team before he showed up.

you could argue Demar is doing the same for the Bulls. Teams should have some veterans if they want to win.

[ItsDanger]

Trading for Butler: mistake
Trading for DLo to appease your paper star: mistake
Not conceding you have too many stat hungry players: another mistake.

Tear it down because this core requires a dominant personality thats also a good player. Hard to do under current circumstances.

However I suspect other motives are at play now in management.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wolves need a veteran player, preferably a point guard. Look at what Chris Paul has done for the Suns or what Rubio has done for the Cavs.
KAT seems to take the back seat and DLO is more than happy to take over which is not the best play. They need a steady PG to get the ball to their best player on the team in crunch time.

If it's not a star guard like Ben Simmons or whatever, atleast try and get just someone steady. Even Dragic would be an upgrade.

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

yea i really hated that trade. Rubio didn't help much last year but they whole season was a mess, i don't think you can learn anything from that. They should have given Rubio one more year.

To be fair, Rubio was part of the extended run of losing in MN, even before Towns arrived. He was really bad last year. And the Wolves did bring in Beverley... which I understand because he offers something unique to this franchise.

The problem is trading Rubio for Prince.

Last night, Rubio made 9 shots and scored 28 points.
This SEASON... Prince has made 9 shots and scored 27 points. He's shooting 25% fg.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Trading for Butler: mistake
Trading for DLo to appease your paper star: mistake
Not conceding you have too many stat hungry players: another mistake.

Tear it down because this core requires a dominant personality thats also a good player. Hard to do under current circumstances.

You note that's a mistake for them to not concede that they had/have too many stat-hungry players... and that they need a dominant personality that's also a good player...

... but you also say it was a mistake to break up a young trio of stat-hungry players to bring in Butler, a dominant player who's also good.

Enjoy your cake.

[whatisacenter]

the Wolves had Rubio last season and traded him to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Taurean Prince...

yea i really hated that trade. Rubio didn't help much last year but they whole season was a mess, i don't think you can learn anything from that. They should have given Rubio one more year.

To be fair, Rubio was part of the extended run of losing in MN, even before Towns arrived. He was really bad last year. And the Wolves did bring in Beverley... which I understand because he offers something unique to this franchise.

The problem is trading Rubio for Prince.

Last night, Rubio made 9 shots and scored 28 points.
This SEASON... Prince has made 9 shots and scored 27 points. He's shooting 25% fg.

that's pretty brutal.

I get that Rubio had a poor first run with the Wolves and he was really bad last season. Having him and dLo on the same team wasn't really a great idea but I am of the opinion that having dLo on any team is a bad idea. I hope for your teams sake that they can find some dupe to take him off your hands.

[ItsDanger]

Trading for Butler: mistake
Trading for DLo to appease your paper star: mistake
Not conceding you have too many stat hungry players: another mistake.

Tear it down because this core requires a dominant personality thats also a good player. Hard to do under current circumstances.

You note that's a mistake for them to not concede that they had/have too many stat-hungry players... and that they need a dominant personality that's also a good player...

... but you also say it was a mistake to break up a young trio of stat-hungry players to bring in Butler, a dominant player who's also good.

Enjoy your cake.

There are degrees to each point. You need a player that can lead that core. That isn't Butler. He's more of a type that fits into a like minded team. I'd trade KAT & DLo and start over.

[AKFO]

They really just need a guard who can get downhill and complement the looks that Russell gets them