Is Fred a true point guard?

[kalel123]

He is already top 3 PG in franchise history, with Lowry and Daemon Stodamire.

Damon wasn't even a good PG honestly, he just benefited from obscenely high usage. He was average to below-average during his prime years in Portland. And that's just on offense, he was absolutely terrible on D, where Fred shines.

Yes I would put Fred at number 2, but Daemon was 20 and 9 while with Toronto, Mighty Mouse carried a team of scrubs... was Rookie of the Year, and he was exciting to watch... very similar game to Fred, not as good a rebounder or defender, but still way better than any pg in raptor history not named Kyle or Fred.

His field goal percentage similar to Fred's.

Remember him going toe to toe with Prime Jordan in year one of raptors season where raps beat a 72 win Bull's team at Roger's Centre.... He was Fred Prime.

I remember Stoudamire used to match up well against Allen Iverson in early days. Having said that, I do wonder how much of his numbers was inflated by playing on bad teams especially since his numbers wasn't nearly as good in Portland. IMO pre-injury TJ Ford was better considering he had to compete for minutes against Calderon when he shouldn't have had to. If he wasn't recklessly injured by Al Horford, Raptors could've fared much better in Chris Bosh era.

[ItsDanger]

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

[vulture]

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

this sounds like something Boogie would make LMAO

[DelAbbot]

Alright who on RealGM made this?

This is gold.

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

[raptorforlife88]

He's definitely our best player. It doesn't matter if he's a "true PG". The team falls apart when he's not on the court and all the advanced numbers across the board show that. RAPTOR, EPM, basically anything looking at on-court/off-court. The Raptors can beat other teams when he's on the floor, but otherwise cannot.

It's impressive. He's not quite Kyle Lowry, but he absolutely has a similar impact.

[Ref_from_hell]

He's definitely our best player. It doesn't matter if he's a "true PG". The team falls apart when he's not on the court and all the advanced numbers across the board show that. RAPTOR, EPM, basically anything looking at on-court/off-court. The Raptors can beat other teams when he's on the floor, but otherwise cannot.

It's impressive. He's not quite Kyle Lowry, but he absolutely has a similar impact.

+1

[Bruin]

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

Lmao this is gold

[Oakvillehoops]

This is such a weird criticism. When you have a double digit lead with ~3 minutes to go, the main goal is to eat as much clock as possible. That is literally why the offence stalled for 4 or 5 possessions. It had nothing to do with FVV not finding the open man and everything to do with killing time. Regardless, Scottie and FVV both had turnovers, but we had good looks on the other possessions.

Every team in the NBA does it too. Heck, Brooklyn did it against us a few weeks ago. They had a 15-point lead with 3 minutes left and they committed 3 turnovers late in the shot clock plus ate 20 seconds off the shot clock in their other possession while we went on a 7-0 run. Then they dribbled 20 seconds off their next possession before attempting a shot and finally scoring. They ended up winning by 13. We also still ended up winning by 13.

The fred-hate is usually just misdirected casual basketball takes.

There's only one reason why this board has such a disproportionate amount of hate for the guy who's been our best player this season: there is a pocket of around 5 to 10 loud but wrong posters who for months, made 50 to 100 posts expressing hatred toward him PER DAY. And that just naturally gains momentum through repetition and re-enforcement until many others start seeing the game through that biased lens.

How can you be wrong for 5 years straight and still keep inventing new bad takes.

I don’t hate Fred. I could write an essay on everything amazing about him. All of us “haters” just wants to optimize his usage and some of us believe that’s as an off the ball scorer and non primary ball handler.

[ineedageck]

God FVV is so painful to watch

[Vampirate]

FVV may not be a true point guard but he's clearly upped his game from last season thus far.

[v1n5anity]

I miss Kyle. Even Kyle doesn't take as many shots as FVV but is still affecting the game and contributing to the team.

[WaltFrazier]

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

this sounds like something Boogie would make LMAO

This thing is funny, and I know some will call it hater-ish. But listening to him I get a feeling why our chemistry isn't good. He seems not interested in helping the younger guys develop.

Ppl just assume Fred's a leader because of how he carries himself, and is so smart and well-spoken and serious. But I question if he really is a good leader. On court he does not make other players better. A lot of these quotes are about deflecting blame as the creator of the video is saying.

Last several games it's been hitting me, our offense is just ugly to watch. It's not crisp, it doesn't involve many nice passes or good cuts. It's just not esthetically pleasing basketball. Yes injuries and losing makes it look worse, but it's mostly just a painful offense to watch. And Fred is a big part of that.

[WaltFrazier]

The same youtube channel has a great video on what's wrong with the Raps.

Watch on YouTube

[JN]

This is probably more of a college basketball prospect review, rather than a player that may fit for the Raps.


I just watched Trayce Jackson Davis of Indiana against Syracuse. I have seen a few sites have him in the second, and seen him as high as late first.

I was very impressed but perhaps more as a college player than a prospect.
Not sure what to say because at times I let my view of players as a college player influence my view.

He is one hell of a college basketball player, explosive around the basket and in traffic with a couple nice spin move dunks.
31pts, 16 reb tonight. 43 last game.
I know he had 9 dunks last game and probably a similar amount tonight.
Also very strong upper body (6-9. 245).

But can't shoot. He has attempted 1 three all year. Can't say I watched him that closely on D.
I expect he will track to a late first rounder, probably not a fit for the Raptors.

But a great junior, some exciting moves and potential 1st team All American.

[Agimat]

I've seen enough games man. He has the demeanor as a captain and/or leader on a team but definitely not someone you can rely on as PG full time.

[raptor jesus]

There are no positions in basketball, and there's certainly no "true" version of a position. You're either one of the five best players on the court when it matters, or you're not. Fred has proven that he is.

[Tha Cynic]

Would Fred ever be happy having 15 assists and 8 points? The answer to this question is why this team needs someone else to handle the ball full-time.

He continues to show that he's a great shooter and defender, but he is not a good playmaker. The bad habit of not passing to the open player is rubbing off on the rest of the team now. No one except for Barnes, and Birch seem to like moving the ball.

FVV does not understand the concept of the hockey assist and the person who runs the team needs to have that. Let Fred focus on gunning like GTJ.

[Tha Cynic]

Watch on YouTube

LOL.

Lmao this is gold

This video is everything that is wrong on the court with the team. Even though this is a collection of some of his worse comments, you can clearly see it on the court. He really does not think the rookies deserve being on the court with him. A player with this mentality CANNOT be the leader of your team. It's crazy that the way he was treated was the opposite way he's treating the new guys on the team.

[pingpongrac]

Would Fred ever be happy having 15 assists and 8 points? The answer to this question is why this team needs someone else to handle the ball full-time.

He continues to show that he's a great shooter and defender, but he is not a good playmaker. The bad habit of not passing to the open player is rubbing off on the rest of the team now. No one except for Barnes, and Birch seem to like moving the ball.

FVV does not understand the concept of the hockey assist and the person who runs the team needs to have that. Let Fred focus on gunning like GTJ.

FVV is 16th in assists, 10th in hockey assists and 11th in potential assists in the entire league. Of the 15 players above FVV in assists, only 5 of them attempt less shots -- and they're mostly on teams playing with other stars (CP3 with Booker, Harden with Durant, Lowry with Butler+Bam and Green with Curry) with the only exception being Garland (who scores 1.3 PPG less while attempting 0.8 FGA less which is pretty comparable). Most of the 15 players above FVV in assists also have a higher average time of possession, average dribbles per touch and USG%.

Before this string of 3 "poor playmaking" games, FVV was averaging 19.5/5/7 on 56 TS% with 3 TOV while also posting 1.0 secondary assists, 13.3 potential assists and 11.0 AST to pass %. Lowry -- who is averaging 12.5/5/7.5 on 56 TS% with 3 TOV -- is posting almost identical passing numbers (0.5 secondary assists, 14.9 potential assists, 11.7 AST to pass %) while playing with significantly better teammates.

The fact of the matter is that it's just difficult to get an offence going when you're playing with 2-3 G-League players for half of a game. That's the reason why FVV's assist numbers have fallen off a cliff the last three games. It doesn't help that Svi and Flynn have combined to shoot 5/21 on mostly wide open threes the last 2 games.

Y'all literally just make up the most random **** lol.

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[mdenny]

Would Fred ever be happy having 15 assists and 8 points? The answer to this question is why this team needs someone else to handle the ball full-time.

He continues to show that he's a great shooter and defender, but he is not a good playmaker. The bad habit of not passing to the open player is rubbing off on the rest of the team now. No one except for Barnes, and Birch seem to like moving the ball.

FVV does not understand the concept of the hockey assist and the person who runs the team needs to have that. Let Fred focus on gunning like GTJ.

FVV is 16th in assists, 10th in hockey assists and 11th in potential assists in the entire league. Of the 15 players above FVV in assists, only 5 of them attempt less shots -- and they're mostly on teams playing with other stars (CP3 with Booker, Harden with Durant, Lowry with Butler+Bam and Green with Curry) with the only exception being Garland (who scores 1.3 PPG less while attempting 0.8 FGA less which is pretty comparable). Most of the 15 players above FVV in assists also have a higher average time of possession, average dribbles per touch and USG%.

Before this string of 3 "poor playmaking" games, FVV was averaging 19.5/5/7 on 56 TS% with 3 TOV while also posting 1.0 secondary assists, 13.3 potential assists and 11.0 AST to pass %. Lowry -- who is averaging 12.5/5/7.5 on 56 TS% with 3 TOV -- is posting almost identical passing numbers (0.5 secondary assists, 14.9 potential assists, 11.7 AST to pass %) while playing with significantly better teammates.

The fact of the matter is that it's just difficult to get an offence going when you're playing with 2-3 G-League players for half of a game. That's the reason why FVV's assist numbers have fallen off a cliff the last three games. It doesn't help that Svi and Flynn have combined to shoot 5/21 on mostly wide open threes the last 2 games.

Y'all literally just make up the most random **** lol.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

I find it hilarious when the same posters covet Maxey. A starting PG playing with Embiid and averaging 5 assists per game? People would be rioting around here.

Fred's averaging 7 on a team that is deficient in consistent offensive threats. And he's doing that while also scoring more points than Maxey. As well as getting more rebounds, getting more blocks and steals, playing elite D.