Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[Hello Brooklyn]

I mean its a win win trade for everyone invovled. Harden didn't want to be in Brooklyn, Simmons not in Philly and Cavs got Allen for cheap. I say all three teams won.

I wouldn't way the Nets won but the Rockets really didn't win. They could have had Allen and all the picks.

7 pretty much unprotected picks with a team that's crumbling right now? I would take that over the Simmons package without Maxey they were offering us. Allen was a mistake but in no way were people thinking back then with his current contract that it was a good idea to pay him that much

All of those picks are with KD signed to the Nets. And Houston looking awful for the near future.

Maybe in 2027 the pick will be lottery.

[EricAnderson]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

The star thing only failed here because Harden gave up on the team.

If Harden KD and Kyrie ever all played together in the playoffs they would have won a title.

[ken6199]

Yeah cause James Harden showed so much professionalism.

Showed up fat out of shape, was terrible all season, then faked an injury, quit and demanded a trade.

The minute he shows up Philly hes MVP Harden again.

Hes just as much to blame as Kyrie is.

They are not equals. If Kyrie was vaccinated and playing, Harden would still be in Brooklyn.

How do we know that for sure?

Harden played with Kyrie the entire road trip. After KD got hurt and wasn't carrying him Harden threw a temper tantrum and demanded out.

Harden was literally playing at MVP level carrying the team last season, which aggravated his hamstring. He also played with one leg during the playoffs - it's a sign of him throwing everything including his body to help the team (and himself) to win a ring. Showing up out of shape at the beginning of this season was a direct consequence of that, of all the people you would know better.

If Kyrie took the vaccine like hundreds of other players in the league, it would reduce the load for both KD and Harden, who knows, KD might not have been hurt. The big 3 would be playing a lot more together now sharing the load. Kyrie was that first domino to fall. Dude rode Lebron's tail to win a ring for his resume so he couldn't give a less of F to his teammates (including Harden) who went all in for their first ring which could turn their legacies upside down. Harden saw that, and decided not to waste his career with this lunatic.

To say Harden and Kyrie are on the same level is an insult. **** Kyrie Irving. **** this guy.

[ken6199]

and this deserves its own post:

**** Kyrie Irving.

[DusterBuster]

It's nice to see refreshing posts that bring something completely new to the table that has never been discussed before on RealGM. Nothing OP posted has never been talked about here even once.

Follow up thread, should the Lakers trade AD and LeBron?

[ocelot17]

Brooklyn also traded eight first round picks to Houston, which they can now use to acquire the next disgruntled superstar.

Imagine the rockets next season with Jabari Smith, Jalen Green, Luka Doncic.

[zshawn10]

I wouldn't way the Nets won but the Rockets really didn't win. They could have had Allen and all the picks.

7 pretty much unprotected picks with a team that's crumbling right now? I would take that over the Simmons package without Maxey they were offering us. Allen was a mistake but in no way were people thinking back then with his current contract that it was a good idea to pay him that much

All of those picks are with KD signed to the Nets. And Houston looking awful for the near future.

Maybe in 2027 the pick will be lottery.

I love KD as the next guy but man, he's been kind of injury prone the last couple of seasons and you think he's going to tolerate Kyrie much more? Don't even get me started on Simmons and where he's at mentally. I am not convinced he's not pushing his "conditioning" further to avoid the 6ers game

[DCasey91]

Posters have rocks in their head blaming Harden. It’s arguable he carried the Nets for two seasons. Played the most games and was doing solo Harden and bench scrubs carrying just like in the Rockets days. Wonderful record as always when he played vs when he didn’t.

... Irving average 27/4/3 on 50+% shooting with James playing PG.

Not his fault Kyrie is crazy. Any normal person would give KD and Irving a fair few words around the lip.

Also Brooklyn winning the trade? Haha media spin at its finest.

[Hello Brooklyn]

They are not equals. If Kyrie was vaccinated and playing, Harden would still be in Brooklyn.

How do we know that for sure?

Harden played with Kyrie the entire road trip. After KD got hurt and wasn't carrying him Harden threw a temper tantrum and demanded out.

Harden was literally playing at MVP level carrying the team last season, which aggravated his hamstring. He also played with one leg during the playoffs - it's a sign of him throwing everything including his body to help the team (and himself) to win a ring. Showing up out of shape at the beginning of this season was a direct consequence of that, of all the people you would know better.

If Kyrie took the vaccine like hundreds of other players in the league, it would reduce the load for both KD and Harden, who knows, KD might not have been hurt. The big 3 would be playing a lot more together now sharing the load. Kyrie was that first domino to fall. Dude rode Lebron's tail to win a ring for his resume so he couldn't give a less of F to his teammates (including Harden) who went all in for their first ring which could turn their legacies upside down. Harden saw that, and decided not to waste his career with this lunatic.

To say Harden and Kyrie are on the same level is an insult. **** Kyrie Irving. **** this guy.

Harden aggravated his hamstring because he was fat and out of shape last season as well.

Also its comical to say he was "carrying" the Nets when he had Kyrie putting up more points on a 50/40/90 clips. Sure he was awesome. He certainly wasn't doing it by himself.

And played half the season for the Nets last year.

Yes if Kyrie took the vaccine it would be wise. And it helped sabotage the Nets.

That doesn't give Harden a pass for openly quitting on the team. When he barely played any games without Kyrie or KD anyway. Youre telling me its so impossible to win when you had KD coming back? And prior to KD coming back you had a massive road trip. Which ensured you barely had to be the sole star on the team.

Lets review what Harden did:

-Demanded a trade to Brooklyn forcing the Nets to give up their assets
-Came into training camp the next year fat and out of shape AGAIN
-Had his worst season since his rookie year while being carried by KD who had an MVP level season
-As soon as KD got hurt he decided to fake injury, quit and demand a trade instead of playing out his contract

His behavior was beyond a pale. The fact that youre defending it is actually absurd.

[phanman]

No, they got bamboozled by Kyrie I am holding my personal belief over professionalism Irving, and (unfortunate) Kevin Durant's half inch too big toe size.

Yeah cause James Harden showed so much professionalism.

Showed up fat out of shape, was terrible all season, then faked an injury, quit and demanded a trade.

The minute he shows up Philly hes MVP Harden again.

Hes just as much to blame as Kyrie is.

Not arguing what you stated, but to be fair he last played for you guys on on Feb 2nd and didn't debut until the 25th. He had over 3 weeks to get his body right and that he did.

He seen the writing on the wall with Kyrie's decision to not get vaccinated and Himself/KD having to over extend themselves to carry the squad with Kyrie's absence. Both guys were playing ~39mpg from December up until KD's last full game on Jan 12th.

Any way you slice it, playing only 16 out of the 113 possible games together is mind boggling and will go down as one of the biggest what-ifs in NBA history.

[payton2kemp]

I wouldn't way the Nets won but the Rockets really didn't win. They could have had Allen and all the picks.

7 pretty much unprotected picks with a team that's crumbling right now? I would take that over the Simmons package without Maxey they were offering us. Allen was a mistake but in no way were people thinking back then with his current contract that it was a good idea to pay him that much

All of those picks are with KD signed to the Nets. And Houston looking awful for the near future.

Maybe in 2027 the pick will be lottery.

Pick swaps are not picks lol people still can't comprehend this. One of the swaps has already expired. Houstan isn't gona be better than Brooklyn anytime soon, like you said maybe in 2027 that swap is worth something. But as of now its only 3 picks, not 7.

[Snotbubbles]

How do we know that for sure?

Harden played with Kyrie the entire road trip. After KD got hurt and wasn't carrying him Harden threw a temper tantrum and demanded out.

Harden was literally playing at MVP level carrying the team last season, which aggravated his hamstring. He also played with one leg during the playoffs - it's a sign of him throwing everything including his body to help the team (and himself) to win a ring. Showing up out of shape at the beginning of this season was a direct consequence of that, of all the people you would know better.

If Kyrie took the vaccine like hundreds of other players in the league, it would reduce the load for both KD and Harden, who knows, KD might not have been hurt. The big 3 would be playing a lot more together now sharing the load. Kyrie was that first domino to fall. Dude rode Lebron's tail to win a ring for his resume so he couldn't give a less of F to his teammates (including Harden) who went all in for their first ring which could turn their legacies upside down. Harden saw that, and decided not to waste his career with this lunatic.

To say Harden and Kyrie are on the same level is an insult. **** Kyrie Irving. **** this guy.

Harden aggravated his hamstring because he was fat and out of shape last season as well.

Also its comical to say he was "carrying" the Nets when he had Kyrie putting up more points on a 50/40/90 clips. Sure he was awesome. He certainly wasn't doing it by himself.

And played half the season for the Nets last year.

Yes if Kyrie took the vaccine it would be wise. And it helped sabotage the Nets.

That doesn't give Harden a pass for openly quitting on the team. When he barely played any games without Kyrie or KD anyway. Youre telling me its so impossible to win when you had KD coming back? And prior to KD coming back you had a massive road trip. Which ensured you barely had to be the sole star on the team.

Lets review what Harden did:

-Demanded a trade to Brooklyn forcing the Nets to give up their assets
-Came into training camp the next year fat and out of shape AGAIN
-Had his worst season since his rookie year while being carried by KD who had an MVP level season
-As soon as KD got hurt he decided to fake injury, quit and demand a trade instead of playing out his contract

His behavior was beyond a pale. The fact that youre defending it is actually absurd.

His behavior isn't beyond a pale. Look at the guy you traded Harden for. At least Harden showed up and played well enough to make an All-Star team.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Harden was literally playing at MVP level carrying the team last season, which aggravated his hamstring. He also played with one leg during the playoffs - it's a sign of him throwing everything including his body to help the team (and himself) to win a ring. Showing up out of shape at the beginning of this season was a direct consequence of that, of all the people you would know better.

If Kyrie took the vaccine like hundreds of other players in the league, it would reduce the load for both KD and Harden, who knows, KD might not have been hurt. The big 3 would be playing a lot more together now sharing the load. Kyrie was that first domino to fall. Dude rode Lebron's tail to win a ring for his resume so he couldn't give a less of F to his teammates (including Harden) who went all in for their first ring which could turn their legacies upside down. Harden saw that, and decided not to waste his career with this lunatic.

To say Harden and Kyrie are on the same level is an insult. **** Kyrie Irving. **** this guy.

Harden aggravated his hamstring because he was fat and out of shape last season as well.

Also its comical to say he was "carrying" the Nets when he had Kyrie putting up more points on a 50/40/90 clips. Sure he was awesome. He certainly wasn't doing it by himself.

And played half the season for the Nets last year.

Yes if Kyrie took the vaccine it would be wise. And it helped sabotage the Nets.

That doesn't give Harden a pass for openly quitting on the team. When he barely played any games without Kyrie or KD anyway. Youre telling me its so impossible to win when you had KD coming back? And prior to KD coming back you had a massive road trip. Which ensured you barely had to be the sole star on the team.

Lets review what Harden did:

-Demanded a trade to Brooklyn forcing the Nets to give up their assets
-Came into training camp the next year fat and out of shape AGAIN
-Had his worst season since his rookie year while being carried by KD who had an MVP level season
-As soon as KD got hurt he decided to fake injury, quit and demand a trade instead of playing out his contract

His behavior was beyond a pale. The fact that youre defending it is actually absurd.

His behavior isn't beyond a pale. Look at the guy you traded Harden for. At least Harden showed up and played well enough to make an All-Star team.

I don't remember defending what Simmons did either.

Harden was terrible all year. He made the all star team on reputation only.

[MrBigShot]

Simmons/Curry/Dre is a pretty good return honestly.

I think they should've just stuck it out with Harden though. They gave up by far the best player in the trade and effectively gave philly one of the most talented rosters in the league now.

I don't remember defending what Simmons did either.

Harden was terrible all year. He made the all star team on reputation only.

You saying this just illustrates how good Harden is. On no planet is 23/10/8 on 58 TS% for a team riddled with injuries to key players and missing its 3rd best player even remotely terrible. But when you were previously an MVP caliber player, expectations are high. Harden, now motivated, looks like he is in MVP form again.

[gmoney411]

7 pretty much unprotected picks with a team that's crumbling right now? I would take that over the Simmons package without Maxey they were offering us. Allen was a mistake but in no way were people thinking back then with his current contract that it was a good idea to pay him that much

All of those picks are with KD signed to the Nets. And Houston looking awful for the near future.

Maybe in 2027 the pick will be lottery.

Pick swaps are not picks lol people still can't comprehend this. One of the swaps has already expired. Houstan isn't gona be better than Brooklyn anytime soon, like you said maybe in 2027 that swap is worth something. But as of now its only 3 picks, not 7.

It's more about having control over the Nets picks for 7 straight years. Most teams end up in the lottery over such a long span. People would have laughed at having the Warriors picks 7 straight years but it would have resulted in pick 2 and pick 14 the last two years. It's only year 2 and the Rockets are likely going to get a top 20 pick which is something nobody expected so soon.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Simmons/Curry/Dre is a pretty good return honestly.

I think they should've just stuck it out with Harden though. They gave up by far the best player in the trade and effectively gave philly one of the most talented rosters in the league now.

I don't remember defending what Simmons did either.

Harden was terrible all year. He made the all star team on reputation only.

You saying this just illustrates how good Harden is. On no planet is 23/10/8 on 58 TS% for a team riddled with injuries to key players and missing its 3rd best player even remotely terrible. But when you were previously an MVP caliber player, expectations are high. Harden, now motivated, looks like he is in MVP form again.

No it doesn't. Stats don't always tell the whole story.

He was horrible all year. Terrible defense. Terrible decision making. Terrible effort.

We had Kevin Durant at and MVP level and were barely scraping by wins. As soon as KD got injured were horrific. That was with Harden. He was not helping us win games.

[hippesthippo]

It’s very close between the two. The thing here though is that Allen has far more value. He’s on a lighter contract which allows more flexibility for his team and being a rim protecting big who can guard out at the perimeter. Bigs like that are extremely valuable. He is limited offensively but has a high basketball IQ so it hasn’t really hurt him production wise.

I do agree that overall, Simmons is the better player. But I would much rather have Allen right now.

An All NBA, 2 time Defensive All Team 3 time All Star compared to a one time replacement replacement All Star

Its close?

Simmons is arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Allen is not even close to that versatile.

And then you accuse me of being a homer.

One of them is also out with mental health and back issues while the other is playing good minutes every game.

But yeah; fans gonna fan. If he's healthy and happy I'd much rather Ben Simmons.

[Dan Z]

7 first round picks is just BS.

You can't count the pick swaps unless they convey. We don't know if they will. The first one already did not.

One first round pick went for a year of Harden where he played like an MVP.

The next two are cancelled out by the Sixers picks.

So its essentially:

Levert
Allen
3 pick swaps

FOR

Simmons
Curry
Drummond

On what planet is that not worth it?

Curry is just better than Levert. Simmons is far better than Allen even with his limitations.

And with a younger Simmons it might be less likely that those swaps convey.

Is the value close to what it was originally? No.

But still a good trade overall.

The 2022, 2024 and 2026 picks will convey so you have to count them. 2024 and 2026 picks don't have protections. In 2022 Houston gets the best two picks out of their own, Brooklyn and Miami's.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

EDIT: I see that you mention the two picks that you got from Philly. They don't exactly cancel out what Brooklyn gave to Houston, but they're better than I originally thought. Philly's 2022 pick (to the Nets) is unprotected and they can move it to 2023 (which they should do IMO). The 2027 pick is protected 1-8.

[kuclas]

All of those picks are with KD signed to the Nets. And Houston looking awful for the near future.

Maybe in 2027 the pick will be lottery.

Pick swaps are not picks lol people still can't comprehend this. One of the swaps has already expired. Houstan isn't gona be better than Brooklyn anytime soon, like you said maybe in 2027 that swap is worth something. But as of now its only 3 picks, not 7.

It's more about having control over the Nets picks for 7 straight years. Most teams end up in the lottery over such a long span. People would have laughed at having the Warriors picks 7 straight years but it would have resulted in pick 2 and pick 14 the last two years. It's only year 2 and the Rockets are likely going to get a top 20 pick which is something nobody expected so soon.

I doubt warriors would have been 2nd worse team in 2020 if they didn’t own their pick

Just like the clippers are threading water .500 cause they don’t own their own pick. If clippers owner their own pick. They would have started tanking

Steph curry would have magically come back earlier from his wrist injury. Klay would have been available by March if the season hadn’t shut down.

So teams tank quicker if their season is going down the hill if they own their own pick.

[Dan Z]

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