2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[Madhouse]

Moses Moody and Jonathan Kuminga been going off in the first half against Denver so far.

[whitehops]

Looks like he is ahead of Grant in the pecking order now.

the pistons had a team meeting after their 8th loss in a row before the all star break and since then have been 6-2. it's pretty much everyone pitching in in the first half of games (they play cade off-ball) and then cade largely controls the show in the second half.

he very much gets lebron/doncic type usage late in games and doesn't look out of place, which is pretty special for a rookie.

[Madhouse]

Kuminga plays very young on defense but is really tough to stop in the paint. He is fun though

[MotownMadness]

Read on Twitter

[whitehops]

so after dominating late in the 4th quarter and OT, the hawks decide to do this on their last defensive possession in OT:



they send a double team, helping off the pistons' best shooter (bey) just to try to get the ball out of cade's hands with the game on the line. trae young ended making a nice play and stripping the ball out of bounds but it seems like NBA teams respect cade's ability a lot more than NBA fans do.

[MrBigShot]

Cade "Rookie of the Year" Cunningham with a scintillating performance

[zeebneeb]

so after dominating late in the 4th quarter and OT, the hawks decide to do this on their last defensive possession in OT:



they send a double team, helping off the pistons' best shooter (bey) just to try to get the ball out of cade's hands with the game on the line. trae young ended making a nice play and stripping the ball out of bounds but it seems like NBA teams respect cade's ability a lot more than NBA fans do.

The sheer amount of traps, doubles, and triple teams(not to mention sometimes collapsing the whole damn team on him when he gets into the lane)opposing coaches are running at him, shows the level of respect they have for Cade.

It's been rough for him seeing so many, I'm glad Bagley is there now, as it's been a boon to Cade to have that lob threat, a perfect pressure release. Bey and Grant playing off Cades decision making has made it deadly to trap Cade, as his decision making is getting better by the game, and making the Pistons tough to play/beat.

Exciting growth by Cade so quickly.

[drone3]

Cade with next level poise down the stretch, really impressive

[tmorgan]

Still don’t know. Really close. Considering media narrative, it’ll be Mobley, Barnes, or Cade.

Mobley definitely has the most consistent impact on winning, and voters that consider advanced stats will go with him.

Cade’s likely going to finish with the best counting stats, but his efficiency isn’t there. Getting better, though.

Barnes seems to give the least consistent performances, but sometimes puts up really impressive all-around numbers.

Wagner and Giddey would get consideration most years. Green seems to have turned a corner. It’s a shame one of those six guys won’t even be first team all-rookie. Heckuva class, this one.

[Madhouse]

so after dominating late in the 4th quarter and OT, the hawks decide to do this on their last defensive possession in OT:



they send a double team, helping off the pistons' best shooter (bey) just to try to get the ball out of cade's hands with the game on the line. trae young ended making a nice play and stripping the ball out of bounds but it seems like NBA teams respect cade's ability a lot more than NBA fans do.

From everything I read Cade is highly thought of by everyone and considered a future star.

[Madhouse]

I think it's 60-20-20 Mobley, Cade, Barnes right now.

I wouldn't have a problem seeing Franz win ROY either but he doesn't have the narrative.

If I am a betting man and looking for value, I'm probably going Cade due to his increased role and usage right now. He could be putting up 20-6-5 the rest of the season.

But Mobley should have the perception and the lead from earlier in the season to carry it over the finish line.

[JackTalkThai]

Mobley definitely has the most consistent impact on winning, and voters that consider advanced stats will go with him.

Cade’s likely going to finish with the best counting stats, but his efficiency isn’t there. Getting better, though.

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

[Madhouse]

Mobley definitely has the most consistent impact on winning, and voters that consider advanced stats will go with him.

Cade’s likely going to finish with the best counting stats, but his efficiency isn’t there. Getting better, though.

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

It happens quiet often with Barnes actually due to a lack of actual offensive system.

[reanimator]

Mobley definitely has the most consistent impact on winning, and voters that consider advanced stats will go with him.

Cade’s likely going to finish with the best counting stats, but his efficiency isn’t there. Getting better, though.

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

Yeah even last night he had multiple last second heaves that lower his "efficiency" but whats more important is the Pistons are clearly more competitive with him in the lineup and even churning out wins now. I remember when "Cade gets his numbers in garbage time down 20" was a critique so its progress.

[JackTalkThai]

Mobley definitely has the most consistent impact on winning, and voters that consider advanced stats will go with him.

Cade’s likely going to finish with the best counting stats, but his efficiency isn’t there. Getting better, though.

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

It happens quiet often with Barnes actually due to a lack of actual offensive system.

I’ve watched a lot of the Raptors play and Barnes has a similar support role to that of Sadiq Bey. He doesn’t run the offense, isn’t the primary or even the secondary ball handler and his usage rate reflects that fact. That doesn’t mean he isn’t going to be a fantastic player because he is. It just means means he’s allowed to play to his strengths more often and isn’t forced to make something out of nothing nearly as frequently as Cunningham.

[nowayguy]

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

It happens quiet often with Barnes actually due to a lack of actual offensive system.

I’ve watched a lot of the Raptors play and Barnes has a similar support role to that of Sadiq Bey. He doesn’t run the offense, isn’t the primary or even the secondary dart ball handler and his usage rate reflects that fact. That doesn’t mean he isn’t going to be a fantastic player because he is. It just means means he’s allowed to play to his strengths more often and isn’t forced to make something out of nothing nearly as frequently as Cunningham.

I think the point is more that Barnes has to create his points, which is often true. Doesn't matter that he's not the primary ballhandler in the Raptors offense, to be honest.

[Madhouse]

What does comparing efficiency numbers matter when you’re comparing offensive role players with a guy who’s tasked with running a team’s entire offense?

It’s very apples & oranges.

Mobley and Barnes aren’t force fed the ball every time the offense sputters, the shot clock is running down and are made to “figure something out”. Cunningham is on a nightly basis and his efficiency numbers aren’t exactly high on the concern list of the Pistons coaching staff. With that lead role, especially for a rookie, comes a lot of forced shots, and low % plays.

It happens quiet often with Barnes actually due to a lack of actual offensive system.

I’ve watched a lot of the Raptors play and Barnes has a similar support role to that of Sadiq Bey. He doesn’t run the offense, isn’t the primary or even the secondary dart ball handler and his usage rate reflects that fact. That doesn’t mean he isn’t going to be a fantastic player because he is. It just means means he’s allowed to play to his strengths more often and isn’t forced to make something out of nothing nearly as frequently as Cunningham.

I know about the usage. I am talking about late shot clock situations especially in those funky lineups Toronto has with zero shooting surrounded. I'm not arguing your point about Cade and the resulting efficiency. I know about the difficulties carrying the load and having not much talent around him. But I think you are severely underrating the lack of offensive system, shooting, ball movement in Toronto. The relatively low assisted basket % for a big man reflects those difficulties especially compared to someone like Mobley who fits very well together with Darius Garland. Saddiq Bey is similar to Mobley as most of their baskets are assisted by team mates, one is just a shooter and the other works majority inside.

[JackTalkThai]

Games with 25+ points, 5+ rebounds, 5+ assists this season:

Cade Cunningham 6
Franz Wagner 1
Evan Mobley 1
Josh Giddey 1
Scottie Barnes 0

[KembaWalker]

Cade rising, Mobley falling hard imo
too hard to change the narrative though

[orlando_joe]

cade has 1 more rb and 2 more ast and 1 more pt per game then franz
with franz shooting 5% better from 3 and 7% better from field
with cade taking 20% more shots then franz
and cade has missed 20% of games
franz 1 of 4 nba players to start every game
franz better defender
and franz just counted as out?