RealGM

Doug_12 wrote:Regarding the OP: I think under FIBA rules they would be somewhat competitive (like a low seeded PO team) (as they were bult for that, they got used to it etc...), but under NBA rules they would be somewhere at the bottom of the league. I don't think they would lose all games or so, I even don't think they would be worse, than the Pistons, but to put it like that: I see them fighting for a play-in spot. Not sure if they'd make it or not, but for sure, they'd have no business being in the PO itself.

Until NBA teams adjusted to the rules at which point, it wouldn't be competitive any more. The talent disparity is just too massive.

Mirotic12 wrote:

MrBigShot wrote:Joe Johnson, a very good player who was never superstar caliber, has more than twice as many all star appearances as the entire fiba team we just sent this summer COMBINED.

We send our D team to compete internationally and now suddenly everyone thinks the NBA is subpar. Look, the pistons are historically bad but we did nearly beat the Celtics a few days before breaking our losing streak. Any euroleague team would get absolutely DECIMATED in the NBA, playing by NBA rules. They would get run out of the building damn near every night.

Again, one of the worst teams in the EuroLeague, Alba Berlin, beat the Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Kawhi Leonard, and Tony Parker Spurs, while playing the game under NBA rules.

Cool. That's one of the 14 games Euroleague teams have won against NBA competition since 2003...in the 166 games they've played.

Quattro wrote:

Mirotic12 wrote:

MrBigShot wrote:Joe Johnson, a very good player who was never superstar caliber, has more than twice as many all star appearances as the entire fiba team we just sent this summer COMBINED.

We send our D team to compete internationally and now suddenly everyone thinks the NBA is subpar. Look, the pistons are historically bad but we did nearly beat the Celtics a few days before breaking our losing streak. Any euroleague team would get absolutely DECIMATED in the NBA, playing by NBA rules. They would get run out of the building damn near every night.

Again, one of the worst teams in the EuroLeague, Alba Berlin, beat the Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Kawhi Leonard, and Tony Parker Spurs, while playing the game under NBA rules.

Cool. That's one of the 14 games Euroleague teams have won against NBA competition since 2003...in the 166 games they've played.

There is no way NBA played EUroleague teams 166 times. WHere you get your numbers from?

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:

Mirotic12 wrote:
Again, one of the worst teams in the EuroLeague, Alba Berlin, beat the Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Kawhi Leonard, and Tony Parker Spurs, while playing the game under NBA rules.

Cool. That's one of the 14 games Euroleague teams have won against NBA competition since 2003...in the 166 games they've played.

There is no way NBA played EUroleague teams 166 times. WHere you get your numbers from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#:~:text=NBA%20teams%20have%20a%20combined,and%20with%20three%20NBA%20refs.

Quattro wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:
Cool. That's one of the 14 games Euroleague teams have won against NBA competition since 2003...in the 166 games they've played.

There is no way NBA played EUroleague teams 166 times. WHere you get your numbers from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#:~:text=NBA%20teams%20have%20a%20combined,and%20with%20three%20NBA%20refs.

I have counted 66 games, not 166 games...

14-52 record, 21% winning rate, its an exhibition game and I don't value it as any kind of proof, but lets not lie, ok.

Quattro wrote:

Doug_12 wrote:Regarding the OP: I think under FIBA rules they would be somewhat competitive (like a low seeded PO team) (as they were bult for that, they got used to it etc...), but under NBA rules they would be somewhere at the bottom of the league. I don't think they would lose all games or so, I even don't think they would be worse, than the Pistons, but to put it like that: I see them fighting for a play-in spot. Not sure if they'd make it or not, but for sure, they'd have no business being in the PO itself.

Until NBA teams adjusted to the rules at which point, it wouldn't be competitive any more. The talent disparity is just too massive.

Probably yes, but when you refer to adjustments, you mean roster adjustments as well, right? Not just re-running the same rosters while learning how to play FIBA ball. I mean, different rules require different skillsets. If we would be in the early 2000's, someone like Tavares could probably be a starting big on a bad NBA team / bench big on a decent NBA team. If the rules (and the officiating) would be changed to FIBA right away, I think we would see a lot of roster adjustments from each team. Tavares would probably be picked up by someone offering the MLE. There would also be a lot of people (skinny, shoot-first bigs w/o rim protection, box out or rebounding - like Wood - or anyone who is brain-dead - like Wiseman) finding themselves out of the league.

Until these adjustments happen, Real would have some chance (like a 1st round exit level chance), after that I agree.

Doug_12 wrote:

Quattro wrote:

Doug_12 wrote:Regarding the OP: I think under FIBA rules they would be somewhat competitive (like a low seeded PO team) (as they were bult for that, they got used to it etc...), but under NBA rules they would be somewhere at the bottom of the league. I don't think they would lose all games or so, I even don't think they would be worse, than the Pistons, but to put it like that: I see them fighting for a play-in spot. Not sure if they'd make it or not, but for sure, they'd have no business being in the PO itself.

Until NBA teams adjusted to the rules at which point, it wouldn't be competitive any more. The talent disparity is just too massive.

Probably yes, but when you refer to adjustments, you mean roster adjustments as well, right? Not just re-running the same rosters while learning how to play FIBA ball. I mean, different rules require different skillsets. If we would be in the early 2000's, someone like Tavares could probably be a starting big on a bad NBA team / bench big on a decent NBA team. If the rules (and the officiating) would be changed to FIBA right away, I think we would see a lot of roster adjustments from each team. Tavares would probably be picked up by someone offering the MLE. There would also be a lot of people (skinny, shoot-first bigs w/o rim protection, box out or rebounding - like Wood - or anyone who is brain-dead - like Wiseman) finding themselves out of the league.

Until these adjustments happen, Real would have some chance (like a 1st round exit level chance), after that I agree.

I was actually thinking that about Tavares, boy was he born too late. But he also developed like crazy way into his 20s. When Real picked him up from G league, he had zero offensive skill, I remember he literally couldn't post up foot shorter guys during switch, and then over the years he became dominant body inside due to his enormous size. You can tell he is 7'4 freak who picked the game late and learnt it all naturally over the years of playing.
I still think he would be really bad in current NBA, because he honestly isn't even pretending to defend 12 feet out, well, he got better, but still he gets killed especially in pick and pop situations. But that said comparing him to who he was when he was in the NBA to who he has become now, is disingenuous, because he is so much better now.

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:
There is no way NBA played EUroleague teams 166 times. WHere you get your numbers from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#:~:text=NBA%20teams%20have%20a%20combined,and%20with%20three%20NBA%20refs.

I have counted 66 games, not 166 games...

14-52 record, 21% winning rate, its an exhibition game and I don't value it as any kind of proof, but lets not lie, ok.

I didn't "lie". I quoted data I found on a google search which I then linked for you. I didn't create that data and I didn't vet it. If it's wrong, that's on whomever wrote it.

Quattro wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#:~:text=NBA%20teams%20have%20a%20combined,and%20with%20three%20NBA%20refs.

I have counted 66 games, not 166 games...

14-52 record, 21% winning rate, its an exhibition game and I don't value it as any kind of proof, but lets not lie, ok.

I didn't "lie". I quoted data I found on a google search which I then linked for you. I didn't create that data and I didn't vet it. If it's wrong, that's on whomever wrote it.

No where the data you linked says 166 games. I just knew the number can't be this high, so I picked up on it. Too many experts with too many 10 second research google arguments.

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:
I have counted 66 games, not 166 games...

14-52 record, 21% winning rate, its an exhibition game and I don't value it as any kind of proof, but lets not lie, ok.

I didn't "lie". I quoted data I found on a google search which I then linked for you. I didn't create that data and I didn't vet it. If it's wrong, that's on whomever wrote it.

No where the data you linked says 166 games. I just knew the number can't be this high, so I picked up on it. Too many experts with too many 10 second research google arguments.

Statistical records of NBA teams against EuroLeague teams
Records by game rules
FIBA era (1978–1999):
NBA teams had a record of 23–3 against FIBA EuroLeague teams, during the FIBA era, when the games were played under a set of mixed NBA and FIBA rules.

Euroleague Basketball era (2003–present):
NBA teams have a combined record of 152–14 against EuroLeague teams, since 2003, playing under NBA rules.

NBA teams have a record of 136–4, when playing the games at home, under NBA rules, and with three NBA refs.

Quattro wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Quattro wrote:
I didn't "lie". I quoted data I found on a google search which I then linked for you. I didn't create that data and I didn't vet it. If it's wrong, that's on whomever wrote it.

No where the data you linked says 166 games. I just knew the number can't be this high, so I picked up on it. Too many experts with too many 10 second research google arguments.

Statistical records of NBA teams against EuroLeague teams
Records by game rules
FIBA era (1978–1999):
NBA teams had a record of 23–3 against FIBA EuroLeague teams, during the FIBA era, when the games were played under a set of mixed NBA and FIBA rules.

Euroleague Basketball era (2003–present):
NBA teams have a combined record of 152–14 against EuroLeague teams, since 2003, playing under NBA rules.

NBA teams have a record of 136–4, when playing the games at home, under NBA rules, and with three NBA refs.

Sorry, you didn't lie, your source did. But it would be good to know that making a point, some knowledge needed beside google search. Goes to few people here.

ScrantonBulls wrote:I saw this discussion in another thread. Somebody said they'd get demolished, and Mirotic12 strongly disagreed. Real Madrid is currently a whopping 19-2. Their roster and stats are below.

How many wins does this team get during an NBA season?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/real-madrid/2024.html

What rules....

They would be the worst team in the league by far, the amount of games played coupled with travel would expose them. Would they win some games, probably, but they would be all time bad.

Pachinko_ wrote:Well if this Real team played in the NBA the rules would work against them, for one they've structured their whole defence around Tavares and lack of 3 seconds rule, which immediately makes him the best defender in Europe. Not so in the NBA.
Also the schedule would also work against them, especially the older players would suffer from all the travelling and B2Bs.

But if they ever played a serious tournament against NBA teams under FIBA rules I'm sure they'd give a lot of teams headaches, their attention to detail and team cohesion is phenomenal. For the same reasons Team USA lost last summer.

Now, if Luka ever returned... different story.

EuroLeague teams play more games and travel more miles than NBA teams do during the season. And they are going to be travelling a lot more miles once the Russian and Mideast teams are in the league. Not only do the EuroLeague teams play more games and travel more, but they also practice a lot more than NBA teams do. Dominique Wilkins talked about just the practice alone in EuroLeague being more physically tiring and demanding than the NBA's actual games.

Doug_12 wrote:While I agree most of your post, there is some difference between talent distribution by birth country (or continent) and talent distribution by the league they play in now. I'm an economist so I trust the financial motivations of people (to some extent) and NBA has way more incentives than Euroleague. Real Madrid has a policy not to pay anyone more than 3.5 mils/year. Edy Tavares is their biggest contract atm, earning 2 million/yr. Sasha Vezenkov (before joining to the NBA) was earning 1.5.

Whereas in the NBA, even the veteran minimum is comparable to these salaries, not to talk about the bi-annual-exception, the various MLEs or the real big money. Every person who cares about money would try to play in the NBA and therefore the talent difference is huge. Sasha Vezenkov (recent Euroleague MVP) left to play a bench role for the Kings, because the Kings pay him 4x more than what he was earning as an MVP here.

Therefore I'd argue that the middling talents are not comparable between the two leagues. Several NBA teams have bench players who could be stars in Europe. Of course that is not true for everyone. There are garbage players also (who are there because of tanking, contract, potential etc...), but their number is way smaller than in the Euroleague.

The contract amounts in Europe are the net income. The NBA contracts are the gross income. So 2 or 3 million in Europe is a lot more than it is in the NBA. The NBA listed salaries lose federal, state (all players have to pay it regardless of what state they play in), and local taxes, agent fees, union fees, retirement fund, etc.

The EuroLeague contract is the actual amount the player keeps. So it's more than double 2-3 million, if you are comparing it to NBA contracts.

Also, Olympiacos offered Vezenkov more than the Kings are paying him. The Kings gave him 3 years $20 million gross, and Olympiacos offered him 3 years $22 million gross. So he didn't join the Kings for more money. He joined the Kings for less money.

If you figure it by the gross amount, like the NBA figures its player contracts, then Nikola Mirotic was making $12 million a season in Barca. The EuroLeague salaries are way higher than most American fans think they are. Simply because of the gross versus net difference.

UcanUwill wrote:People said the same thing in 2014, when I said that Real was better than 76ers at a time. Those are still NBA players etc, but in 2 years, most of that roster washed out and never reached Real Madrid level. Just like this Pistons team will wash out into overseas nobodies soon.

I am not saying Real would be competitive, I am saying they would be better than 8% winning team.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread:

The process Sixers almost lost to freaking Bilbao with NBA rules. And Bilbao actually threw the game at the end, by intentionally fouling on the last possession, even though they were tied in the game. They fouled the Sixers on purpose on the last possession. An NBA coach would never ever foul on purpose when ahead on the last possession.

So in essence, playing under NBA rules, the process Sixers tied Bilbao, which was a way worse team than Real Madrid. Keep in mind that Bilbao wasn't even in the EuroLeague. They were a EuroCup team (the second tier European league, the league level below the EuroLeague).

Philadelphia 76ers 106 - Bilbao Basket (EuroCup team - the league level BELOW EuroLeague) 104

Box Score:

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/400491498

And again, Bilbao tanked the game by intentionally fouling at the end of the game, despite the game being tied. And again, the game was played under NBA rules.

SweaterBae wrote:This is absurd cherry picking. The list of high level NCAA players and NBA scrubs who have dominated in international leagues is a million miles long.

There are maybe 2-3 NCAA players / NBA scrubs that dominated EuroLeague. Seriously, in all of history. And even that is probably being generous. Because no such player that ever dominated stats wise individually ever came close to actually winning a championship. And only a handful ever even dominated stats wise, while never winning jack.

There are a grand total of ZERO such players that ever won a championship, while having dominant stats. Never happened once in all of EuroLeague history.

But yeah, lots of NCAA players and NBA scrubs "dominated" in the Georgian League, Norwegian League, Irish League, Albanian League, some league in Africa, some league in China, etc. Which is like saying that NAIA players that had good numbers "dominated the NBA".

"International leagues" isn't the same thing as EuroLeague. Some player that "dominates" in the Iraqi League, isn't going to dominate the EuroLeague, and in fact isn't going to even make a EuroLeague team.

Mirotic12 wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:People said the same thing in 2014, when I said that Real was better than 76ers at a time. Those are still NBA players etc, but in 2 years, most of that roster washed out and never reached Real Madrid level. Just like this Pistons team will wash out into overseas nobodies soon.

I am not saying Real would be competitive, I am saying they would be better than 8% winning team.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread:

The process Sixers almost lost to freaking Bilbao with NBA rules. And Bilbao actually threw the game at the end, by intentionally fouling on the last possession, even though they were tied in the game. They fouled the Sixers on purpose on the last possession. An NBA coach would never ever foul on purpose when ahead on the last possession.

So in essence, playing under NBA rules, the process Sixers tied Bilbao, which was a way worse team than Real Madrid. Keep in mind that Bilbao wasn't even in the EuroLeague. They were a EuroCup team (the second tier European league, the league level below the EuroLeague).

Philadelphia 76ers 106 - Bilbao Basket (EuroCup team - the league level BELOW EuroLeague) 104

Box Score:

https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/400491498

And again, Bilbao tanked the game by intentionally fouling at the end of the game, despite the game being tied. And again, the game was played under NBA rules.

Watch on YouTube

SweaterBae wrote:This is absurd cherry picking. The list of high level NCAA players and NBA scrubs who have dominated in international leagues is a million miles long.

There are maybe 2-3 NCAA players / NBA scrubs that dominated EuroLeague. Seriously, in all of history. And even that is probably being generous. Because no such player that ever dominated stats wise individually ever came close to actually winning a championship. And only a handful ever even dominated stats wise, while never winning jack.

There are a grand total of ZERO such players that ever won a championship, while having dominant stats. Never happened once in all of EuroLeague history.

But yeah, lots of NCAA players and NBA scrubs "dominated" in the Georgian League, Norwegian League, Irish League, Albanian League, some league in Africa, some league in China, etc. Which is like saying that NAIA players that had good numbers "dominated the NBA".

"International leagues" isn't the same thing as EuroLeague. Some player that "dominates" in the Iraqi League, isn't going to dominate the EuroLeague, and in fact isn't going to even make a EuroLeague team.

The 95-96 Bulls lost to the 21 win expansion Raptors. The 15-16 Warriors lost by 17 to a 17 win Lakers team, also lost to a 29 win Wolves team and the Bucks and Nuggets who won 33 games each.

This is why we use cumulative records and not single games, because in a single game, and even more so in a single exhibition game, anything can happen. That's why college basketball Cinderella run is a thing.

In this case, these are all still professional basketball players, at a certain level of basketball ability, everyone can get buckets against each other, the difference in levels of professional players is ability to do it consistently and also ability to defend can be a factor. In one game, someone can get hot and/or someone can get cold, and it can make things more interesting.

Real Madrid is a team of experienced basketball players who are still pro's, no NBA star level guys, but NBA rotation quality for some. They can be better than a Pistons team that has mostly guys who are still learning to play professional basketball.

The EuroLeague is 9-19 against the NBA in their least 28 head to games played against each other, while playing the games with NBA rules.

28 games is not a small sample size. It is not just an example of a one off game either. It is a 28 game sample size, and with the games played under NBA rules.

9-19 under NBA rules. 9-19 is a .321 winning percentage, which projects out to a record of 26-56 over an 82 game season.

2010

1. Barcelona BC 92 - Los Angeles Lakers 88 (1-0)

2. Miami Heat 96 - CSKA Moscow 85 (1-1)

3. Memphis Grizzlies 110 – Baskonia Vitoria 105 (1-2)

4. Oklahoma City Thunder 97 – CSKA Moscow 89 (1-3)

5. San Antonio Spurs 108 - Baskonia Vitoria 85 (1-4)

6. CSKA Moscow 90 - Cleveland Cavaliers 87 (2-4)

2012

7. Fenerbahce Istanbul 97 - Boston Celtics 91 (3-4)

8. Dallas Mavericks 89 - Alba Berlin 84 (3-5)

9. Memphis Grizzlies 105 - Real Madrid 93 (3-6)

10. San Antonio Spurs 106 - Sana Siena 77 (3-7)

11. Boston Celtics 105 - Olimpia Milan 75 (3-8)

12. Toronto Raptors 102 - Real Madrid 95 (3-9)

13. Cleveland Cavaliers 91 – Sana Siena 85 (3-10)

14. Barcelona BC 99 - Dallas Mavericks 85 (4-10)

2013

15. Oklahoma City Thunder 95 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 82 (4-11)

16. CSKA Moscow 108 - Minnesota Timberwolves 106 (5-11)

17. San Antonio Spurs 95 – CSKA Moscow 93 (5-12)

2014

18. Cleveland Cavaliers 107 – Maccabi Tel Aviv 80 (5-13)

19. Brooklyn Nets 111 – Maccabi Tel Aviv 94 (5-14)

20. Alba Berlin 94 - San Antonio Spurs 93 (6-14)

21. San Antonio Spurs 96 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 90 (6-15)

2015

22. Fenerbahce Istanbul 101 - Brooklyn Nets 96 (7-15)

23. Boston Celtics 124 – Olimpia Milan 91 (7-16)

24. Boston Celtics 111 – Real Madrid 96 (7-17)

25. Oklahoma City Thunder 111 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 81 (7-18)

2016

26. Real Madrid 142 - Oklahoma City Thunder 137 (8-18)

27. Oklahoma City Thunder 92 – Barcelona BC 89 (8-19)

2023

28. Real Madrid 127 - Dallas Mavericks 123 (9-19)

The numerous claims in this thread that Real Madrid would get blown out in every single NBA game are totally absurd and completely devoid of any and all reality.

Again, 28 games is not a small sample size, and it's games played with NBA rules. A record of 9-19, which includes several close games that were losses for the EuroLeague teams, is far, far away from 0-82 with 82 blowout losses.

Mirotic12 wrote:The EuroLeague is 9-19 against the NBA in their least 28 head to games played against each other, while playing the games with NBA rules.

28 games is not a small sample size. It is not just an example of a one off game either. It is a 28 game sample size, and with the games played under NBA rules.

9-19 under NBA rules. 9-19 is a .474 winning percentage, which projects out to a record of 39-43 over an 82 game season.

2010

1. Barcelona BC 92 - Los Angeles Lakers 88 (1-0)

2. Miami Heat 96 - CSKA Moscow 85 (1-1)

3. Memphis Grizzlies 110 – Baskonia Vitoria 105 (1-2)

4. Oklahoma City Thunder 97 – CSKA Moscow 89 (1-3)

5. San Antonio Spurs 108 - Baskonia Vitoria 85 (1-4)

6. CSKA Moscow 90 - Cleveland Cavaliers 87 (2-4)

2012

7. Fenerbahce Istanbul 97 - Boston Celtics 91 (3-4)

8. Dallas Mavericks 89 - Alba Berlin 84 (3-5)

9. Memphis Grizzlies 105 - Real Madrid 93 (3-6)

10. San Antonio Spurs 106 - Sana Siena 77 (3-7)

11. Boston Celtics 105 - Olimpia Milan 75 (3-8)

12. Toronto Raptors 102 - Real Madrid 95 (3-9)

13. Cleveland Cavaliers 91 – Sana Siena 85 (3-10)

14. Barcelona BC 99 - Dallas Mavericks 85 (4-10)

2013

15. Oklahoma City Thunder 95 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 82 (4-11)

16. CSKA Moscow 108 - Minnesota Timberwolves 106 (5-11)

17. San Antonio Spurs 95 – CSKA Moscow 93 (5-12)

2014

18. Cleveland Cavaliers 107 – Maccabi Tel Aviv 80 (5-13)

19. Brooklyn Nets 111 – Maccabi Tel Aviv 94 (5-14)

20. Alba Berlin 94 - San Antonio Spurs 93 (6-14)

21. San Antonio Spurs 96 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 90 (6-15)

2015

22. Fenerbahce Istanbul 101 - Brooklyn Nets 96 (7-15)

23. Boston Celtics 124 – Olimpia Milan 91 (7-16)

24. Boston Celtics 111 – Real Madrid 96 (7-17)

25. Oklahoma City Thunder 111 – Fenerbahce Istanbul 81 (7-18)

2016

26. Real Madrid 142 - Oklahoma City Thunder 137 (8-18)

27. Oklahoma City Thunder 92 – Barcelona BC 89 (8-19)

2023

28. Real Madrid 127 - Dallas Mavericks 123 (9-19)

The numerous claims in this thread that Real Madrid would get blown out in every single NBA game are totally absurd and completely devoid of any and all reality.

Again, 28 games is not a small sample size, and it's games played with NBA rules. A record of 9-19, which includes several close games that were losses for the EuroLeague teams, is far, far away from 0-82 with 82 blowout losses.

You need to retake your math courses

9-19 projects to 26-56 over 82 games. It's miles away from 0-82, with 82 blowout losses, like some are claiming would be the result. And that's including games that were played by bad EuroLeague teams. Some of those games featured bad EuroLeague teams, not good EuroLeague teams, like the current Real Madrid.

Mirotic12 wrote:

Pachinko_ wrote:Well if this Real team played in the NBA the rules would work against them, for one they've structured their whole defence around Tavares and lack of 3 seconds rule, which immediately makes him the best defender in Europe. Not so in the NBA.
Also the schedule would also work against them, especially the older players would suffer from all the travelling and B2Bs.

But if they ever played a serious tournament against NBA teams under FIBA rules I'm sure they'd give a lot of teams headaches, their attention to detail and team cohesion is phenomenal. For the same reasons Team USA lost last summer.

Now, if Luka ever returned... different story.

EuroLeague teams play more games and travel more miles than NBA teams do during the season. And they are going to be travelling a lot more miles once the Russian and Mideast teams are in the league. Not only do the EuroLeague teams play more games and travel more, but they also practice a lot more than NBA teams do. Dominique Wilkins talked about just the practice alone in EuroLeague being more physically tiring and demanding than the NBA's actual games.

Doug_12 wrote:While I agree most of your post, there is some difference between talent distribution by birth country (or continent) and talent distribution by the league they play in now. I'm an economist so I trust the financial motivations of people (to some extent) and NBA has way more incentives than Euroleague. Real Madrid has a policy not to pay anyone more than 3.5 mils/year. Edy Tavares is their biggest contract atm, earning 2 million/yr. Sasha Vezenkov (before joining to the NBA) was earning 1.5.

Whereas in the NBA, even the veteran minimum is comparable to these salaries, not to talk about the bi-annual-exception, the various MLEs or the real big money. Every person who cares about money would try to play in the NBA and therefore the talent difference is huge. Sasha Vezenkov (recent Euroleague MVP) left to play a bench role for the Kings, because the Kings pay him 4x more than what he was earning as an MVP here.

Therefore I'd argue that the middling talents are not comparable between the two leagues. Several NBA teams have bench players who could be stars in Europe. Of course that is not true for everyone. There are garbage players also (who are there because of tanking, contract, potential etc...), but their number is way smaller than in the Euroleague.

The contract amounts in Europe are the net income. The NBA contracts are the gross income. So 2 or 3 million in Europe is a lot more than it is in the NBA. The NBA listed salaries lose federal, state (all players have to pay it regardless of what state they play in), and local taxes, agent fees, union fees, retirement fund, etc.

The EuroLeague contract is the actual amount the player keeps. So it's more than double 2-3 million, if you are comparing it to NBA contracts.

Also, Olympiacos offered Vezenkov more than the Kings are paying him. The Kings gave him 3 years $20 million gross, and Olympiacos offered him 3 years $22 million gross. So he didn't join the Kings for more money. He joined the Kings for less money.

If you figure it by the gross amount, like the NBA figures its player contracts, then Nikola Mirotic was making $12 million a season in Barca. The EuroLeague salaries are way higher than most American fans think they are. Simply because of the gross versus net difference.

Thanks, I didn't know that. But still, the difference between the salaries are way too much to have a comparable amount of talent in the two leagues.

I mean on average a US player earns 50% of his gross salary. If I use that, then there are 188 players in the NBA* who earns more than the highest paid Euroleague player**. That means, that if you are a decent player in Europe who has a shot to be among the top 6 players of a random NBA team, then you'll make more than what you could get in Europe. That's a huge financial motivation for anyone to come over.***

I assume Vezenkov also had this in mind when he was choosing the Kings' 20m over the 22m.

* https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html
** https://www.eurohoops.net/en/trademarks/1559225/the-top-10-euroleague-salaries-2023-24/
***Of course, living expenses can be very different and the US is generally way more expensive than living anywhere within Spain or Greece, not to talk about Turkey or Serbia. But on the other side, endorsement opportunities and overall quality of life favors the US - especially vs the last two countries.