Miami Heat Off-season Thread Vol. 5 - The One Where We Do Something

[wadenation305]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

[AirP.]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

Strength, hustle and BBIQ do age well as long as you're willing to put in the work, it's the quickness and overall athletic ability that doesn't. Butlers has had his most efficient years in his mid 30s now. It's why LeBron is still going as well as he is.

It could be a long time before Miami can acquire another player near what Butler will be the next few years, had Butler not forced his way to Miami your hopes probably would still be with Winslow being that player who's currently not in the NBA.

[lastb1ckman]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

Strength, hustle and BBIQ do age well as long as you're willing to put in the work, it's the quickness and overall athletic ability that doesn't. Butlers has had his most efficient years in his mid 30s now. It's why LeBron is still going as well as he is.

I don't think holding any player to the standard of lebron james is wise. Especially players that have never even sniffed being as healthy as he has been his entire career.

To me Jimmy is showing a lot more signs of a star that is about to fall off than a guy that's gonna keep killing it into his late 30s.

[AirP.]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

Strength, hustle and BBIQ do age well as long as you're willing to put in the work, it's the quickness and overall athletic ability that doesn't. Butlers has had his most efficient years in his mid 30s now. It's why LeBron is still going as well as he is.

I don't think holding any player to the standard of lebron james is wise. Especially players that have never even sniffed being as healthy as he has been his entire career.

To me Jimmy is showing a lot more signs of a star that is about to fall off than a guy that's gonna keep killing it into his late 30s.

I've made this comparison for 8 or so years now, why would I change now? The comparisons are strength based, bbiq, and their upkeep of their bodies. No Butler isn't as good as LeBron, but he has a lot of traits that has allowed LeBron to go deep into 30s so into his 40s as a high-level player. The way Wemby is going, how he's treating his body and all the extra work he's doing, I'd expect him to play into his 40s if he wants to, the work ethic is highly important to go deeper into your career. I think both (Butler and LeBron) could continue to play at a high level but at possibly reduced minutes for the next few years. At this point, for both of these players, it's about how long you want to keep putting in the work. Butler learned from Luol Deng about hard work, weirdly enough, he learned from Mark Walburg how to schedule his time to do what he needed to do while also living his life. If you see Butler starting to slow down outside of basketball, I'd assume he's also slowing down on working on his body/game, that's when you should really worry.

“The dude is an incredible dude,” said Butler. “He is one of the most genuine people you can be around. He works hard, studies the scripts. He just finished up Deep Water Horizon, but he’s probably on two scripts from now because that’s how his mind works. He’s actually the one (that) got (me) waking up at 5 o’clock and working because that’s what he does, wakes up 4:30, 5 and he reads (scripts) and then he goes works out and starts his day.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/bulls-jimmy-butler-talks-about-how-mark-wahlberg-inspires-him

Interesting enough, James Harden seems to have a high work ethic but not the will to keep his body in tiptop shape, he's going to be interesting to watch age.

[lastb1ckman]

Also, even if Jimmy holds up better than most older players going into his final years, you have to think about it in the context of how much he's trying to get. MULTIPLE years of 50-60 million dollars! I don't care how much the cap is increasing, how do you build a contender with the current CBA when your top paid guy is getting paid that much but has to coast most of the season just to make it to the post season. And if you somehow trade for another star so Jimmy doesn't have to be the guy, well now you have no team outside Bam, the new star, and a declining Jimmy. 3 stars and no depth isn't a very reliable path to a chip, especially when 1 misses a bunch of time.

[AirP.]

Also, even if Jimmy holds up better than most older players going into his final years, you have to think about it in the context of how much he's trying to get. MULTIPLE years of 50-60 million dollars! I don't care how much the cap is increasing, how do you build a contender with the current CBA when your top paid guy is getting paid that much but has to coast most of the season just to make it to the post season. And if you somehow trade for another star so Jimmy doesn't have to be the guy, well now you have no team outside Bam, the new star, and a declining Jimmy. 3 stars and no depth isn't a very reliable path to a chip, especially when 1 misses a bunch of time.

Build a contender, after Butler leaves? That isn't happening until Miami somehow gets lucky acquiring another star. One thing I've learned during my 5 years following this team, they aren't going to outbid anyone... even if they have the assets to outbid someone, they're going to try to use leverage to get their next big star on the cheap and I have no idea how many years that will take, they've basically tried it the whole time Butler was in Miami, so that's a half decade of striking out. Luckily Wade sold Butler on Miami and with that, it took Butler 5 minutes meeting with Miami to confirm things Wade told him before he agreed to go to Miami.

From 2019-2021 this FO put Giannis in the crosshairs and that dream got blown up at the end of the 2020 offseason.
2022 they went after KD, didn't get him.
2023 they went after Lillard and didn't get him.
2024 they waited on Mitchell, but he too signed a long-term extension.
And now, a youth movement with Bam hitting 27, it'll only take the young guys 3-4 years to get where they need to be and with that, Bam will be around 30 and fans will start talking about trading him.

This team was close yet the FO said screw it and just went with drafting middle to late 1st rounders.

Before I followed Miami (when Butler got here), I thought this FO was way more aggressive going after stars, in reality they aren't, they'll take one if they're cheap, but overall, they're not sending out a bunch of assets to get one... and stars still run the league built around only 5 players on the court at a time and normally 8 or 9 in the playoff rotations.

[Beenie]

Tons of strawman arguments in this post but I just came to say even if Jimmy pops off and we win the championship I would lean towards the FO not offering him the 4/$240M he wants. They’re just not going to do it.

I’m actually starting to get worried we’re going to botch this whole situation and lose him for nothing, or maybe 1 1st in a sign and trade, instead of maximizing his value this summer and getting several assets for him (like this FO has a bad habit of doing). We’re just delaying the inevitable at this point it seems

If Mia wins the chip and Jimmy performs as he has in recent playoff runs, which suggests he'd win Finals MVP, the team will cave in and pay him, there's no doubt in my mind.

I don’t see it tbh. What if we’re bounced in 6 in the 2nd round or ECF and he’s playing great? They’re giving a 36 year old Jimmy 4/$240M? This is Patrick James Riley we’re talking about

If Jimmy is being talked about again as being the best player in the playoffs as he has in years past, despite if they get bounced in the 2nd round, my guess is that in the following offseason, the team will once again try and trade for another star to form a big 3 and also extend Jimmy.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Team USA has got to get Bam and Ant more help in 2028

[Hallstar]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

Strength, hustle and BBIQ do age well as long as you're willing to put in the work, it's the quickness and overall athletic ability that doesn't. Butlers has had his most efficient years in his mid 30s now. It's why LeBron is still going as well as he is.

It could be a long time before Miami can acquire another player near what Butler will be the next few years, had Butler not forced his way to Miami your hopes probably would still be with Winslow being that player who's currently not in the NBA.

Jimmy isn't giving us 39 year old LeBron now. paying 50mil for the 9th seed, then 11th seed etc doesn't make sense.

[Beenie]

If Mia wins the chip and Jimmy performs as he has in recent playoff runs, which suggests he'd win Finals MVP, the team will cave in and pay him, there's no doubt in my mind.

I don’t see it tbh. What if we’re bounced in 6 in the 2nd round or ECF and he’s playing great? They’re giving a 36 year old Jimmy 4/$240M? This is Patrick James Riley we’re talking about

Highly doubt the Heat are giving him 4 years regardless of his play.

Don’t think he was even asking for 4 years.

It was 1 additional year after his opt in year originally.

So maybe if he opts out after next season and renegotiates, it would look closer to 2 years at 120.

Regarding your earlier point about Herro, I agree that they play him on the ball way too much. But in the playoffs, when both he and Jimmy are available, both of their roles are pretty clearly defined with Jimmy being the main guy and Herro as a secondary option.

[AirP.]

Jimmy is not Steph Curry, he does not have a killer shot that he can get off when ever regardless of his athletics. Jimmy is a out muscle and hustle player. They do not age gracefully. And his ankle? If you haven't noticed the same ankle has been a recurring problem for years. That not going away, it's only going to get more ginger as he ages. And lastly the way the new cba works, if teams continue to pay stars for past performance instead of what they bring in the right now, they are going to find themselves in cap hell really quickly

Strength, hustle and BBIQ do age well as long as you're willing to put in the work, it's the quickness and overall athletic ability that doesn't. Butlers has had his most efficient years in his mid 30s now. It's why LeBron is still going as well as he is.

It could be a long time before Miami can acquire another player near what Butler will be the next few years, had Butler not forced his way to Miami your hopes probably would still be with Winslow being that player who's currently not in the NBA.

Jimmy isn't giving us 39 year old LeBron now. paying 50mil for the 9th seed, then 11th seed etc doesn't make sense.

Go give 2 midlevel players 50 mil to hopefully make the play-in with no real chance to get past the 1st round.

I hope you know, once Butler's gone so is being in the tax. I'm kind of surprised Miami's still in the tax currently.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I don’t see it tbh. What if we’re bounced in 6 in the 2nd round or ECF and he’s playing great? They’re giving a 36 year old Jimmy 4/$240M? This is Patrick James Riley we’re talking about

Highly doubt the Heat are giving him 4 years regardless of his play.

Don’t think he was even asking for 4 years.

It was 1 additional year after his opt in year originally.

So maybe if he opts out after next season and renegotiates, it would look closer to 2 years at 120.

Regarding your earlier point about Herro, I agree that they play him on the ball way too much. But in the playoffs, when both he and Jimmy are available, both of their roles are pretty clearly defined with Jimmy being the main guy and Herro as a secondary option.

New reports are saying he wants to opt out next summer and sign a new 4/$240M deal paying him through the age of 40

[lastb1ckman]

Also, even if Jimmy holds up better than most older players going into his final years, you have to think about it in the context of how much he's trying to get. MULTIPLE years of 50-60 million dollars! I don't care how much the cap is increasing, how do you build a contender with the current CBA when your top paid guy is getting paid that much but has to coast most of the season just to make it to the post season. And if you somehow trade for another star so Jimmy doesn't have to be the guy, well now you have no team outside Bam, the new star, and a declining Jimmy. 3 stars and no depth isn't a very reliable path to a chip, especially when 1 misses a bunch of time.

Build a contender, after Butler leaves? That isn't happening until Miami somehow gets lucky acquiring another star. One thing I've learned during my 5 years following this team, they aren't going to outbid anyone... even if they have the assets to outbid someone, they're going to try to use leverage to get their next big star on the cheap and I have no idea how many years that will take, they've basically tried it the whole time Butler was in Miami, so that's a half decade of striking out. Luckily Wade sold Butler on Miami and with that, it took Butler 5 minutes meeting with Miami to confirm things Wade told him before he agreed to go to Miami.

From 2019-2021 this FO put Giannis in the crosshairs and that dream got blown up at the end of the 2020 offseason.
2022 they went after KD, didn't get him.
2023 they went after Lillard and didn't get him.
2024 they waited on Mitchell, but he too signed a long-term extension.
And now, a youth movement with Bam hitting 27, it'll only take the young guys 3-4 years to get where they need to be and with that, Bam will be around 30 and fans will start talking about trading him.

This team was close yet the FO said screw it and just went with drafting middle to late 1st rounders.

Before I followed Miami (when Butler got here), I thought this FO was way more aggressive going after stars, in reality they aren't, they'll take one if they're cheap, but overall, they're not sending out a bunch of assets to get one... and stars still run the league built around only 5 players on the court at a time and normally 8 or 9 in the playoff rotations.

They don't outbid, because they can't outbid. When you try to stay good all the time, your picks aren't worth as much, and you probably don't have a much cap space because you pay the players on your team so you stay good. The amount of picks you have also will be limited, because you have to make smaller trades on the margins to stay good since the big trades aren't possible. These other teams that make big trades and big swings have the assets for these trades because they have a lot of losing in their recent history and/or they're willing to go for the high risk gamble and just hopes it works out. They're ok with that gamble, because they're ok with bottoming out and being bad for years if the gambles fail.

I do think that if Jimmy either leaves or is traded away there's actually much more potential for big moves in the coming years. They'll either finally have a good amount of trade assets or they'll actually have the cap space to sign another max contract player to pair with Bam. This is better than trying to convince players to come cheap or teams to trade for mediocre packages.

[Beenie]

Highly doubt the Heat are giving him 4 years regardless of his play.

Don’t think he was even asking for 4 years.

It was 1 additional year after his opt in year originally.

So maybe if he opts out after next season and renegotiates, it would look closer to 2 years at 120.

Regarding your earlier point about Herro, I agree that they play him on the ball way too much. But in the playoffs, when both he and Jimmy are available, both of their roles are pretty clearly defined with Jimmy being the main guy and Herro as a secondary option.

New reports are saying he wants to opt out next summer and sign a new 4/$240M deal paying him through the age of 40

We’ll see after the season.

Not the belabor, but the offer will reflect his playoff performance provided that they make it there this upcoming year. If they fail to make it/ if he’s hurt/ unavailable/ compromised due to injury/ or just underperforms, then they won’t be offering max money, nor should they imo. If he continues to perform at an elite level in the playoffs, they’ll likely pay him accordingly.

[lastb1ckman]

Also, Jimmy's time in Miami is gonna come to an end eventually. Whether it comes after next season or in 4 years, they will have to rebuild no matter what.

It sometimes feels like some of the guys here think the Heat is nothing without Jimmy Butler. The team has been one of the most consistent and successful franchises in the NBA for the last 36 years. They've gone through different eras and have seen success in every one, getting another star when they actually have cap space and assets to trade for one is not some crazy idea.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Embiid is so bad at the little things lol

[Beenie]

Also, Jimmy's time in Miami is gonna come to an end eventually. Whether it comes after next season or in 4 years, they will have to rebuild no matter what.

It sometimes feels like some of the guys here think the Heat is nothing without Jimmy Butler. The team has been one of the most consistent and successful franchises in the NBA for the last 36 years. They've gone through different eras and have seen success in every one, getting another star when they actually have cap space and assets to trade for one is not some crazy idea.

The dominant narrative nowadays though takes him for granted. There’s an underlining subtext in the discourse that seems to think Mia, in a post Jimmy era, can swiftly recreate the success they’ve had during his years and dismisses or ignores the real possibility that the team will be lottery bound for many years to come or maybe first round pit stops at best.

Thats not even taking into account the quality of basketball which will inevitably be awful at times. When the team is on the midst of a 5 game losing streak and getting blowout by halftimes, I’m certain they’ll be people on this board that will be saying things like “if Jimmy were here he’d stop the bleeding” or “someone needs to be able to get to the foul line like Jimmy”, or “why can’t anyone manipulate defenses and force favorable switches like Jimmy used to”.

[Beenie]

Embiid is so bad at the little things lol

Haven’t watched but the intl game doesn’t seem to be suited for him

[lastb1ckman]

Also, Jimmy's time in Miami is gonna come to an end eventually. Whether it comes after next season or in 4 years, they will have to rebuild no matter what.

It sometimes feels like some of the guys here think the Heat is nothing without Jimmy Butler. The team has been one of the most consistent and successful franchises in the NBA for the last 36 years. They've gone through different eras and have seen success in every one, getting another star when they actually have cap space and assets to trade for one is not some crazy idea.

The dominant narrative nowadays though takes him for granted. There’s an underlining subtext in the discourse that seems to think Mia, in a post Jimmy era, can swiftly recreate the success they’ve had during his years and dismisses or ignores the real possibility that the team will be lottery bound for many years to come or maybe first round pit stops at best.

Thats not even taking into account the quality of basketball which will inevitably be awful at times. When the team is on the midst of a 5 game losing streak and getting blowout by halftimes, I’m certain they’ll be people on this board that will be saying things like “if Jimmy were he’d stop the bleeding” or “someone needs to be able to get the foul line like Jimmy”, or “why can’t anyone manipulate defenses and force favorable switches like Jimmy used to”.

I do agree that its not guaranteed that the heat will be able to quickly rebuild in the post Jimmy era. I just think its more likely the heat get a star when they actually have a lot of cap space &/or draft picks. The amount needed to get a star likely only comes from trading Jimmy or trading Bam. Between those two options, trading Jimmy makes MUCH more sense.