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YogurtProducer wrote:Health permitted, we should be expecting this team to be about mid-pack offensively.

tsherkin wrote:

Harry Palmer wrote:I’m not as 100% sure on him as the Rockets are, but I have learned to really respect their scouting/evaluation nous and Reed had such an odd stop-and-start rookie season with a few different injuries etc. that they saw a lot more of him than the fans did. I’m interested, did you scout him much coming out, and if so what did you think?

No, Lord no. I hate college ball, I barely watch any of it all because it's so dull to me.

But Sheppard BLAZED from downtown in college, and he's a good FT shooter, so I can see anything of what they might be thinking about in terms of potential. But he's 6'1.75" barefoot and about 182 lbs, +1.5 wingspan, huge vert. Unremarkable lane agility, unremarkable shuttle run, decent 3/4 court sprint. Book on him from everything I've read is about the same as that: meh athleticism with weak defensive upside, solid playmaking, excellent shooting.

He's not likely to do any of the big-time comparisons I saw, I'd imagine. He's short and doesn't have reach. He apparently has pretty good timing in the passing lanes.

Otoh he’s a better athlete than most of those guys,

Is he, beyond raw vertical leap? His speed isn't crazy, and that's ultimately a lot more important than max vert.

We'll see what happens. He had a rough transition to the NBA and looked horrible. So whether he becomes Trajan Langdon 2.0 or something more interesting will have to wait until we see how this upcoming season goes.

Harry Palmer wrote:Athletically I think you’re off a bit. First, though he can jump and dunk easily, I don’t think his jumping is nearly as good as his vertical suggests. He’s a good leaper, no more. But he is exceptional at other aspects,

A lot of my optimism is based on how the rockets feel, and that would mean nothing to me if it was just words, but they put their money where their mouth is at the trade table…reportedly only Amen is valued higher…so it Carrie’s more weight.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Yes, but it wont be on this team probably. Typically, guys that teams move off of get the boot. It's like "hey, would you take a pay-cut and a lesser role". Nobody wants to hear that.

You can transition into a role that suits you without being traded lol

Happens literally all the time where young guys are given a green light then it gets reigned in as the team improves.

With max eligible guys? That's a whole different conversation. That's a break up.

Harry Palmer wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:

MoneyBall wrote:It really wasn't that long ago that people said the same thing about the Pacers and Cavs.

They traded for elite offensive players to change their fate.

There's a small chance Quickley becomes that guy, he can shoot and his defence isn't bad for a modern starting PG, but at least one of his passing/creativity/finishing inside would have to make a dramatic leap forward for him to pull a Lowry/Kemba/Dragic/Oladipo/Cassell/Billups and break out at 25 or older. It's hard to see because he's not a special athlete like Oladipo or physical like Billups or Lowry or creative/herky jerky as Dragic but Cassell and Kemba offer hope as comps.

Or there's a trade like the Cavs or Pacers made for their offensive centerpiece.

Cavs - Markannen + Sexton + Agbaji + 2 firsts + 3 swaps
Pacers - Sabonis.

If - next summer or deadline - we can turn RJ's expiring + Murray-Boyles + Gradey + 3 firsts + 2 Swaps (Markannen at the time still > RJ by a swap to a first I'd say, for shooting big upside) into a star, or Scottie Barnes straight up for an offensive star, then yeah we'll be in decent shape.

Plausible targets seem like maybe:

-Dylan Harper or Castle (if they don't want to move Fox) from the Spurs glut of guards (Castle was not efficient and it's not clear he can shoot but 72% from the line at age 20 and a Quickley-Castle backcourt looks like a nice fit)

-Jaden Ivey, good athlete, shot well last year and they had success without him so maybe they'd move him for the right package?

-Lamelo, classic always injured star and kind of an idiot, but a walking paint touch who can shoot and pass gives us an entry into a top 18 offense, which we don't have right now (the entire top 18 had an offensive star who bends defences or sacrificed defence with a passing skilled center in the form of Sengun and Sabonis, which for us would mean Barnes starting at C, or possibly Murray-Boyles if he truly is the 2nd best underclassman in the draft after Flagg like his BPM showed)

-Garland, probably would have to involve a Quickley deal, but if they don't make a conference finals they gotta go after some wings at the expense of Garland and/or Allen

-McCain or Maxey, seems unlikely they get deal, but McCain's efficiency was pretty great as a rookie and if Edgecombe is at the 2, it might make sense for them to trade one of the smaller guards for a forward or big, as Embiid and Paul George are probably cooked.

-Reed Sheppard, seems really unlikely, but KD is 37 and if they're a title contender, trading Sheppard + Finney-Smith for Quickley could be intriguing for them:

Sengun-Adams
Jabari-Eason
KD-Eason
Amen-Quickley
Quickley-VanVleet

is a pretty damn great 8 man rotation with guys like Capela, Aaron Holliday and Tate probably capable of providing 10 minutes a night without killing you.

For us, we'd be hoping Sheppard, like Billups, can turn his shooting and good hands into being a star guard.

-Jalen Green, the stats, passing and defence aren't there, but he does have talent and might be real cheap.

-Cam Thomas, similar to Green but he's a better scorer and probably even more selfish. But some guys mature late or can be reached by a different coach/organization.

That was all I could come up with for guards who aren't stars or are but might be movable and you could see becoming the kind of offensive player we just don't have on the roster. Ingram can score, but he's not going to bend a defence unless he's a very late bloomer himself and can completely change where he gets his shot attempts from (which I think is a function of his lack of strength and speed and not low b-ball IQ), and stays healthy.

Unless the wheels fall completely off, there is absolutely no chance. The Rockets refused to move him for KD, you think they’d move him for IQ?!?! The Rockets are completely in love with him, before the KD trade it was widely believed that they viewed him as their best offensive talent and now envision him as the guy who is most likely to assume the scoring leader mantle when KG retires/declines. They really see a ~ Steph-esque guy, or maybe a Steph-FVV hybrid with more athleticism.

The reasons he saw so few minutes last year were a) crazy depth b) injuries c) the big one, defence. Udoka’s first rule is you don’t play until you can be trusted defensively and while Reed looks like a very disruptive defender, he’s going to surprise people with stocks, he was not versed enough in Ime’s defensive principles last year to be trusted and was sometimes hunted as a result. They expect a much mugger role this year, and even though they ARE a contender now, they have been very vocal about maintaining the long-term view, and virtually every Rockets insider says they are more excited about him now than they were when they drafted him/considered him Number 1 on their board.

Honestly, they’d consider the offer insulting imo.

ForeverTFC wrote:Sorry if this has been posted, just got around to Zach's Monday pod. He had IQ on his most intriguing players list and said IQ will be the determine whether we have a good season or a meh season (unless the spacing is truly so bad that it doesn't matter).

tsherkin wrote:

ForeverTFC wrote:Sorry if this has been posted, just got around to Zach's Monday pod. He had IQ on his most intriguing players list and said IQ will be the determine whether we have a good season or a meh season (unless the spacing is truly so bad that it doesn't matter).

IQ has a lot of potential for us. He's like a 17/5 kind of player with a strong ATB 3pt shot, crushes it at the line, he's even pretty good at GETTING to the line. He hovers around league-average efficiency in years he isn't injured. He's been about a -6 TSAdd player for three seasons now, TS+ of 100, 99 and 99. So we can give him a little extra room to move, help him get back to the better finishing in close he had the previous two seasons and get him a little more passing support on his shots, we've got a high-teens scorer who can be quite useful to us.

ForeverTFC wrote:His bull thesis went beyond this. Specifically called out the theoretical 2-man game with Scottie, especially with him as a screen setter for Scottie. And that if IQ digs in, he has above average defensive potential. The former though also hinges on Scottie who seems to have little interesting in a good PnR game...

seanbig wrote:IQ is just bad and I’m out on him

tsherkin wrote:

ForeverTFC wrote:Sorry if this has been posted, just got around to Zach's Monday pod. He had IQ on his most intriguing players list and said IQ will be the determine whether we have a good season or a meh season (unless the spacing is truly so bad that it doesn't matter).

IQ has a lot of potential for us. He's like a 17/5 kind of player with a strong ATB 3pt shot, crushes it at the line, he's even pretty good at GETTING to the line. He hovers around league-average efficiency in years he isn't injured. He's been about a -6 TSAdd player for three seasons now, TS+ of 100, 99 and 99. So we can give him a little extra room to move, help him get back to the better finishing in close he had the previous two seasons and get him a little more passing support on his shots, we've got a high-teens scorer who can be quite useful to us.

nivisi9 wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

ForeverTFC wrote:Sorry if this has been posted, just got around to Zach's Monday pod. He had IQ on his most intriguing players list and said IQ will be the determine whether we have a good season or a meh season (unless the spacing is truly so bad that it doesn't matter).

IQ has a lot of potential for us. He's like a 17/5 kind of player with a strong ATB 3pt shot, crushes it at the line, he's even pretty good at GETTING to the line. He hovers around league-average efficiency in years he isn't injured. He's been about a -6 TSAdd player for three seasons now, TS+ of 100, 99 and 99. So we can give him a little extra room to move, help him get back to the better finishing in close he had the previous two seasons and get him a little more passing support on his shots, we've got a high-teens scorer who can be quite useful to us.

can someone explain to me why IQ is below average efficiency for someone who shoots like 42% 3PT on high volume?

I always not really getting when I read about IQ not being efficient for a guard.

Isnt the high efficiency 3pt shooting suppose to increase true shooting?

or in the case of him maintaining high efficiency + high volume 3PT this season (something like 42%) where are the other areas he can likely improve in a "breakout yr" that will have his high efficiency 3PT shooting play in his favor for increasing overall efficiency?

nivisi9 wrote:can someone explain to me why IQ is below average efficiency for someone who shoots like 42% 3PT on high volume?

dTox wrote:

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ciueli wrote:

dTox wrote:

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I don't really see the Raptors as similar to the Kings. Kings are happily building an entire team around players who can't defend or are at best mediocre defenders, we just used a top 10 pick on CMB with Scottie already on the team and we're looking to get rid of RJ because he isn't the wing defender we need.