Free Noa.

[pipfan]

For sure-overpay IHart if OKC can't afford him and play a huge lineup-if Noa could start next to Matas

[sco]

He is. Way better at the rim than Pat. Pat is there for the beef so we don’t get bullied.

No way I’m putting Noa on Duren or Beef Stew or WCJ.

I do think long term Noa is the 4 and backup 5. Buz will be playing the 3 and 4. I prefer him at the 3 with a big size advantage. His length eats up wings on D.

Yeah, big question about whether Noa/Matas long term can defend 3/4 with another 5 and we go ultra big, or whether they're both really PFs (which is what I think is true). Also depends what other teams are doing, like they'd be awesome in a small ball lineup if the other team is going small, and we can play them at 4/5, but as you note, you can't play them (most likely anyway, certainly today) against a 5s that are 240+ in weight.

I'm also suspicious that Noa's a long term 5. I think he's a 4 that can cover 2-5.

His weight is obviously deficient right now for playing big minutes in the front court, but he also has a slight frame. And despite claims to the contrary, he's not actually overly long for his height so he creates a length mismatch if you play him at the 5.

The upshot is that during preseason he actually spent most of his time guarding the perimeter against non-trivial players, so I actually think his comparative advantage now is guarding smaller players and bothering them with his size. I actually suspect it'll be best to keep him thin and fast and make him more of a perimeter oriented big man -- kind of like Derrick McKey back in the day.

It might even be possible to play Giddey-Matas-Noa and the 2-4 on defense and have Noa and Matas take the two toughest covers out of those positions and let slow footed Giddey pick up the scraps.

This!

It's like trying to get Lauri to be a C all over again. The kid is rangy and quick. Let him work with that.

[dougthonus]

This!

It's like trying to get Lauri to be a C all over again. The kid is rangy and quick. Let him work with that.

The difference to me is that Essengue seems like a shot blocker / rebounder / defender with an offensive game within 10 feet of the basket. That just feels like a center. Laurie on the flipside was tall and could shoot, but he wasn't a rim protector and had a rangy offensive game, which sounds more like a PF.

Not to say Essengue can't be a power forward. I'm actually initially just focused on him being an NBA quality player, but if he doesn't develop as a shooter / ball handler then on offense, he sure feels like a center.

[dougthonus]

And despite claims to the contrary, he's not actually overly long for his height so he creates a length mismatch if you play him at the 5.

The first half of that sentence sounds like you think his length is a disadvantage, and the second half makes it sound like you think his length is an advantage.

From a practical perspective, he was measured with a 9'2 standing reach and 7'1 wingspan at the combine. That's not an advantage at center, but not a disadvantage (especially given his athleticism). The weight is definitely a challenge though, he's at a big deficit there.

[Chi town]

This!

It's like trying to get Lauri to be a C all over again. The kid is rangy and quick. Let him work with that.

The difference to me is that Essengue seems like a shot blocker / rebounder / defender with an offensive game within 10 feet of the basket. That just feels like a center. Laurie on the flipside was tall and could shoot, but he wasn't a rim protector and had a rangy offensive game, which sounds more like a PF.

Not to say Essengue can't be a power forward. I'm actually initially just focused on him being an NBA quality player, but if he doesn't develop as a shooter / ball handler then on offense, he sure feels like a center.

This. Exactly my line of thinking too.

I think he’s both. Perimeter defender and rim protector. His length disrupts with his IQ in and outside.

[Seccci]

I want billy to give him token 3-4 minutes at the late first, early second q, just like he started with Matas last year. It seemed to calm the rookie knowing he will play, with who and when and against back ups.

Than let Noa know any extra minutes come as reward of good play and doing the right things teamwise. Surely billy can give those 6 minutes he gave to terry to Noa.

Though after watching some preseason vids and practice vids with Noa, I kind of see why he rides the bench, not much refined NBA skills there yet, he is way more raw than Matas coming in.( Sort of just all arms and legs player right now, hopefully not Bruno Caboclo two years away from being two years away)

[rosenthall]

However, I'm still having a hard time pegging what his ceiling is. Despite his young age, I feel better about his floor than his ceiling. He seems well suited to be a high impact defensive role player. Not sure if I see him becoming more than that.

He doesn't seem to have a base offensive skillset to grow into a set of elite offensive skills. Anything is possible in the sense that some guys can make crazy leaps, but that feels pretty unlikely.

He was drafted 12 though, there's really almost no reason to think any player drafted 12 has much likelihood of becoming an elite player. Of course some will, but his skillset really isn't in that mold, and he isn't some freak athlete with freak size. He's good in both places, but not crazy good. He seems to have high basketball IQ, but isn't particularly highly skilled.

I'll be happy if he's a low rung starter. Not that he can't be more than that, but let's hit that bar first.

I agree that his offensive base it pretty weak. He can do a little bit of everything at an okay level for a guy his size, but he doesn't seem to bring any plus skill there, and projecting any area to eventually be good enough to be an actual advantage is a stretch right now. One reason why I don't project stardom for him, even though I do like the pick.

In some ways he reminds of Tyrus Thomas on offense. Noa's not as bouncy, but they they both use a good nose for the ball to be around plays despite not having any particular skills to draw on. I remember when I watched Tyrus he always looked so ugly when he had the ball in his hands, but he always had a knack for using his physical gifts to somehow draw a play.

[rosenthall]

And despite claims to the contrary, he's not actually overly long for his height so he creates a length mismatch if you play him at the 5.

The first half of that sentence sounds like you think his length is a disadvantage, and the second half makes it sound like you think his length is an advantage.

It was poor wording on my part. I went back and changed "mismatch" to disadvantage.

From a practical perspective, he was measured with a 9'2 standing reach and 7'1 wingspan at the combine. That's not an advantage at center, but not a disadvantage (especially given his athleticism). The weight is definitely a challenge though, he's at a big deficit there.

I disagree that his measurables are merely average for a center. They're outright bad. Easily bottom third among starting centers in the NBA currently, maybe bottom 5, and possibly the very worst.

I didn't do an exhaustive search for every center, but I didn't find a single center that was at or below his standing reach / wingspan combination among starting centers.

His wingspan is particularly problematic. For an NBA center a 7'1 wingspan makes you a t-rex. I can't find a single big minute center in the NBA with that measurement. 9'2 standing reach is a little better, but the ones that are at that level (Miles Turner, Wendell Carter Jr, Jarrett Allen) all have wingspans that are at least 7'4. To be a starting center in the NBA 7'3 / 9'2 seem like table stakes for having necessary size for the position.

[dougthonus]

It was poor wording on my part. I went back and changed "mismatch" to disadvantage.

I disagree that his measurables are merely average for a center. They're outright bad. Easily bottom third among starting centers in the NBA currently, maybe bottom 5, and possibly the very worst.

I didn't do an exhaustive search for every center, but I didn't find a single center that was at or below his standing reach / wingspan combination among starting centers.

His wingspan is particularly problematic. For an NBA center a 7'1 wingspan makes you a t-rex. I can't find a single big minute center in the NBA with that measurement. 9'2 standing reach is a little better, but the ones that are at that level (Miles Turner, Wendell Carter Jr, Jarrett Allen) all have wingspans that are at least 7'4. To be a starting center in the NBA 7'3 / 9'2 seem like table stakes for having necessary size for the position.

Not sure wingspan is that important for a center compared to standing reach. He was also measured with a 9'3.5 standing reach at basketball without borders in Europe. The number can vary a reasonable amount based on time of day and how loose your back is etc..

Given how bouncy he is, I feel like he'll play well above the rim, which is really what I'm thinking is important here from a practical perspective with these numbers.

If he's able to build up enough weight, I don't think the height.reacg will be a problem, but you are right the league does seem just taller at center than it has been in the past. I used to run the numbers a lot back in the day when I worked for draftexpress, and 15 years ago, it seemed like a typical standing reach for a center was 9'1 to 9'2. Seems a couple inches higher now.

[rosenthall]

It was poor wording on my part. I went back and changed "mismatch" to disadvantage.

I disagree that his measurables are merely average for a center. They're outright bad. Easily bottom third among starting centers in the NBA currently, maybe bottom 5, and possibly the very worst.

I didn't do an exhaustive search for every center, but I didn't find a single center that was at or below his standing reach / wingspan combination among starting centers.

His wingspan is particularly problematic. For an NBA center a 7'1 wingspan makes you a t-rex. I can't find a single big minute center in the NBA with that measurement. 9'2 standing reach is a little better, but the ones that are at that level (Miles Turner, Wendell Carter Jr, Jarrett Allen) all have wingspans that are at least 7'4. To be a starting center in the NBA 7'3 / 9'2 seem like table stakes for having necessary size for the position.

Not sure wingspan is that important for a center compared to standing reach. He was also measured with a 9'3.5 standing reach at basketball without borders in Europe. The number can vary a reasonable amount based on time of day and how loose your back is etc..

Given how bouncy he is, I feel like he'll play well above the rim, which is really what I'm thinking is important here from a practical perspective.

Wingspan affects your "ahead-of-time" defensive presence when you have to move between spots, which I would think is super important for a center. Even if you're not leaving the paint you still have to rotate to cover areas, and long arms sure do help a lot to close off space.

I think Noa will be able to play center in certain lineups, and he probably ends up a 4/5, but you have to be an anthropometric condor to start at the 5 in the NBA.

Noa is graceful and bouncy, but he's not some freak athlete that defies precedent. I don't think he's a better athlete than Wendell Carter Jr, for example.

[HomoSapien]

We need to decide if we are actually invested in Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips' future here. If not, we might as well give those 6-10 mins to Essengue. If Okoro keeps **** the bed, then that's another 20-25 mins up for grabs --- although we have to factor in Coby as well.

[Dan Z]

We need to decide if we are actually invested in Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips' future here. If not, we might as well give those 6-10 mins to Essengue. If Okoro keeps **** the bed, then that's another 20-25 mins up for grabs --- although we have to factor in Coby as well.

Philips and Terry have a future here? Shouldn't the Bulls already know the answer to that question? This is Phillips third season and Terry's fourth.

I agree with you...give most of those minutes to Noa. His development is important to the future of the team. If, over time, Noa shows that he's too raw for those minutes then you can decide what to do.

[DuckIII]

We need to decide if we are actually invested in Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips' future here. If not, we might as well give those 6-10 mins to Essengue. If Okoro keeps **** the bed, then that's another 20-25 mins up for grabs --- although we have to factor in Coby as well.

Even with as infuriatingly slow as this FO has been to move on from things that CLEARLY don’t work, it’s really hard to imagine that Terry or Phillips played for any reason other than Coby being hurt.

If anything they might get occasional looks to compete with each other for a league minimum deal for the last musical chair. Until BD thinks Noa is ready.

Even AK’s incompetence has limits.

[meekrab]

I don't think Phillips' minutes have anything to do with Coby being out as much as they do Matas and Okoro both playing like crap and us needing someone taller than Jevon Carter to play against Wagner and Banchero. If Matas is playing well I doubt he gets off the bench except for garbage time.

[sco]

We need to decide if we are actually invested in Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips' future here. If not, we might as well give those 6-10 mins to Essengue. If Okoro keeps **** the bed, then that's another 20-25 mins up for grabs --- although we have to factor in Coby as well.

Even with as infuriatingly slow as this FO has been to move on from things that CLEARLY don’t work, it’s really hard to imagine that Terry or Phillips played for any reason other than Coby being hurt.

If anything they might get occasional looks to compete with each other for a league minimum deal for the last musical chair. Until BD thinks Noa is ready.

Even AK’s incompetence has limits.

IDK, I like Phillips on a minimum deal. I don't hate Terry, and if he improves offensively, I'd be willing to keep him on a min deal. As 14th/15th guys, they are probably average and they both know the system. They aren't gonna pout for not playing either.