[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[god shammgod]

out of curiosity, besides dwill and cp3. what other point guards are free agents in 2012 ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-11-12

thanks

nash, bibby, a. miller, hinrich. not bad really.

[aggo]

Recap of Screaming A on Tierney's show:

1) A is scared that NY will blow it.

2) Deal will happen at the 23rd hour.

3) Anthony wants to be a Knicks but is annoyed that the deal hasn't been completed yet.

4) D'Antoni might not want to give up Gallinari.

5) Gallo isn't a scrub but its ridiculous to hold onto him when you can get a face of the franchise like Anthony.

6) Screaming A would trade Gallo, Fields, Fleton, Chandler, Azi, and picks for Anthony. A's argument is every one of those guys are replaceable whereas guys like Anthony come along every once in a while. If you have a chance to get him you get him and find replacements for guys who are just "guys".

Gallo, Fields, Chandler, Azi are all 1000% replaceable. I hate to say it, but it is true. But Felton is not.

Felton will be a desirable commodity in 2012. Unlike Billups, it is conceivable that if the Magic, Hornets, and Jazz go through the same pains as the Nuggets did this year, Felton can be used to trade for cp3, dwight, or deron.

Billups on the other hand will be useless for anything other than an expiring-- and even-- there is no guarantee that we can even use him as an expiring.

What if he retires after this season and asks for a buyout? Then his contract will be worthless. it wont even be an expiring. The knicks would have then effectively traded Gallo, Chandler, Ar, and Felton for Melo.

Then consider that this happening would all but seal us out of the 2012 race-- because by then Amare/Melo will make up ~40million of our salary, and we're 1000% sure to have fillers like Moz, TD, Williams still on this team who will probably bring us close to the cap.

I'm Ok with giving up guys like Gallo, CHandler, Fields even. I'm not OK with taking on a deal that puts us in a worse position for 2012 (and this cannot be argued.. it flat out does) while giving up a young PG who we can control forever and is someone who teams would consider taking back in the even that they are forced to trade their stars.

[MaseInYourFace]

Imagine if Stephen A were a GM. He'd be so bad. Lol. I get what he's saying but it's not how things work. You can't just take the first offer given to you. That's like the first rule of negotiating.

[MaseInYourFace]

Recap of Screaming A on Tierney's show:

1) A is scared that NY will blow it.

2) Deal will happen at the 23rd hour.

3) Anthony wants to be a Knicks but is annoyed that the deal hasn't been completed yet.

4) D'Antoni might not want to give up Gallinari.

5) Gallo isn't a scrub but its ridiculous to hold onto him when you can get a face of the franchise like Anthony.

6) Screaming A would trade Gallo, Fields, Fleton, Chandler, Azi, and picks for Anthony. A's argument is every one of those guys are replaceable whereas guys like Anthony come along every once in a while. If you have a chance to get him you get him and find replacements for guys who are just "guys".

Gallo, Fields, Chandler, Azi are all 1000% replaceable. I hate to say it, but it is true. But Felton is not.

Felton will be a desirable commodity in 2012. Unlike Billups, it is conceivable that if the Magic, Hornets, and Jazz go through the same pains as the Nuggets did this year, Felton can be used to trade for cp3, dwight, or deron.

Billups on the other hand will be useless for anything other than an expiring-- and even-- there is no guarantee that we can even use him as an expiring.

What if he retires after this season and asks for a buyout? Then his contract will be worthless. it wont even be an expiring. The knicks would have then effectively traded Gallo, Chandler, Ar, and Felton for Melo.

Then consider that this happening would all but seal us out of the 2012 race-- because by then Amare/Melo will make up ~40million of our salary, and we're 1000% sure to have fillers like Moz, TD, Williams still on this team who will probably bring us close to the cap.

I'm Ok with giving up guys like Gallo, CHandler, Fields even. I'm not OK with taking on a deal that puts us in a worse position for 2012 (and this cannot be argued.. it flat out does) while giving up a young PG who we can control forever and is someone who teams would consider taking back in the even that they are forced to trade their stars.

Good point and that type of reasoning is what makes me believe that Felton is the apple of discord not Gallo as some seem hellbent on making him.

[Fury]

Stephen A Smith went to the school of Isiah Thomas of GMing.

[louieOrr]

Imagine if Stephen A were a GM. He'd be so bad. Lol. I get what he's saying but it's not how things work. You can't just take the first offer given to you. That's like the first rule of negotiating.

If Stephen A were a GM he would be I.T.

[Pharmcat]

Recap of Screaming A on Tierney's show:

1) A is scared that NY will blow it.

2) Deal will happen at the 23rd hour.

3) Anthony wants to be a Knicks but is annoyed that the deal hasn't been completed yet.

4) D'Antoni might not want to give up Gallinari.

5) Gallo isn't a scrub but its ridiculous to hold onto him when you can get a face of the franchise like Anthony.

6) Screaming A would trade Gallo, Fields, Fleton, Chandler, Azi, and picks for Anthony. A's argument is every one of those guys are replaceable whereas guys like Anthony come along every once in a while. If you have a chance to get him you get him and find replacements for guys who are just "guys".

Gallo, Fields, Chandler, Azi are all 1000% replaceable. I hate to say it, but it is true. But Felton is not.

Felton will be a desirable commodity in 2012. Unlike Billups, it is conceivable that if the Magic, Hornets, and Jazz go through the same pains as the Nuggets did this year, Felton can be used to trade for cp3, dwight, or deron.

Billups on the other hand will be useless for anything other than an expiring-- and even-- there is no guarantee that we can even use him as an expiring.

What if he retires after this season and asks for a buyout? Then his contract will be worthless. it wont even be an expiring. The knicks would have then effectively traded Gallo, Chandler, Ar, and Felton for Melo.

Then consider that this happening would all but seal us out of the 2012 race-- because by then Amare/Melo will make up ~40million of our salary, and we're 1000% sure to have fillers like Moz, TD, Williams still on this team who will probably bring us close to the cap.

I'm Ok with giving up guys like Gallo, CHandler, Fields even. I'm not OK with taking on a deal that puts us in a worse position for 2012 (and this cannot be argued.. it flat out does) while giving up a young PG who we can control forever and is someone who teams would consider taking back in the even that they are forced to trade their stars.

says who? as of right now, only amare is guaranteed in 2012, as others become FA, have QO that can be renounced, etc...so it is totally possible to have amare/melo/cap holds on the roster come 2012 provided no long term deals are taken in said deal

+, even if one doesnt want to wait till 2012, there can still be money this OS depending on who gets traded and if billups deal is not picked up, i think the # was around 10 mill depending on the situation....you can use 4 mill of that to acquire a PG (ridnour?) and the other 6 to pick up a C

there are plenty of options of going forward....just have to get melo first

[MaseInYourFace]

People gotta remember GM's also look at trade value. Felton's relatively cheap contract and his age make him have a very high trade value.

[Hardaway 10]

nash, bibby, a. miller, hinrich. not bad really.

Hinrich, when not saddled with a defensive liability like Ben Gordon in the backcourt or buried behind John Wall, can play a pretty good PG.

[j4remi]

All those guys are replaceable as single entities...being able to replace ALL OF THEM is going to be a lot more challenging than people seem to think.

[NewJerzeyKnick]

Felton
Chandler
Randolph/ or 1st
Walker

for

Melo
Billups


get'er doneee

[aggo]

Recap of Screaming A on Tierney's show:

1) A is scared that NY will blow it.

2) Deal will happen at the 23rd hour.

3) Anthony wants to be a Knicks but is annoyed that the deal hasn't been completed yet.

4) D'Antoni might not want to give up Gallinari.

5) Gallo isn't a scrub but its ridiculous to hold onto him when you can get a face of the franchise like Anthony.

6) Screaming A would trade Gallo, Fields, Fleton, Chandler, Azi, and picks for Anthony. A's argument is every one of those guys are replaceable whereas guys like Anthony come along every once in a while. If you have a chance to get him you get him and find replacements for guys who are just "guys".

Gallo, Fields, Chandler, Azi are all 1000% replaceable. I hate to say it, but it is true. But Felton is not.

Felton will be a desirable commodity in 2012. Unlike Billups, it is conceivable that if the Magic, Hornets, and Jazz go through the same pains as the Nuggets did this year, Felton can be used to trade for cp3, dwight, or deron.

Billups on the other hand will be useless for anything other than an expiring-- and even-- there is no guarantee that we can even use him as an expiring.

What if he retires after this season and asks for a buyout? Then his contract will be worthless. it wont even be an expiring. The knicks would have then effectively traded Gallo, Chandler, Ar, and Felton for Melo.

Then consider that this happening would all but seal us out of the 2012 race-- because by then Amare/Melo will make up ~40million of our salary, and we're 1000% sure to have fillers like Moz, TD, Williams still on this team who will probably bring us close to the cap.

I'm Ok with giving up guys like Gallo, CHandler, Fields even. I'm not OK with taking on a deal that puts us in a worse position for 2012 (and this cannot be argued.. it flat out does) while giving up a young PG who we can control forever and is someone who teams would consider taking back in the even that they are forced to trade their stars.

says who? as of right now, only amare is guaranteed in 2012, as others become FA, have QO that can be renounced, etc...so it is totally possible to have amare/melo/cap holds on the roster come 2012 provided no long term deals are taken in said deal

+, even if one doesnt want to wait till 2012, there can still be money this OS depending on who gets traded and if billups deal is not picked up, i think the # was around 10 mill depending on the situation....you can use 4 mill of that to acquire a PG (ridnour?) and the other 6 to pick up a C

there are plenty of options of going forward....just have to get melo first

I'm all for getting Melo. 100% for it. But at some point the value of Melo on your team at the cost of giving up 3 starters becomes less.

Unless the CBA changes drastically to facilitate us geting a third star, I just don't see how it is financially feasible at this moment. Amare and Melo will make up 40million of the cap. That is irrefutable. If people thought that we dont have assets now, what happens in 2012 when deron, cp3, and dwight are all asking to be traded and we can only offer minimums + 2 guys who have no ceiling? Then consider that there will be other teams who are under the cap and have better offers? What if Bosh becomes available? Noah for Dwight? It almost isnt a one horse race.

And consider that we'll all but certainly have to let Fields walk?? Is everyone ready for that?

[kingmalaki]

I don't see the big deal, unless your logic is that NY shouldn't give anything of value since Melo can sign here this offseason (at the detriment of his pcoketbook). Honestly, in a fair market you couldn't trade your 3 rumored starters, cap relief and a pick for any top 10 player in the league. That alone is highway robbery for a top 10 player, especially one who puts butts in the seats. And you would be getting back another quality starting PG, who you don't have to pay next year. That is a come up. Again, it's only not worth it if you think you shouldn't have to give fair value for Melo.

[seren]

In all seriousness, I would do Felton for Billups even if Melo is not coming.

[Knicker23]

at least BT admitted his gallo homerism .... he wouldn't do Gallo for Melo..... anyone who wouldn't do that needs to get there head checked.

As for Stephen A, obviously I don't think he'd do the Moz, Gallo, Fields, Chandler and pick deal, but his point that he'd give up Gallo and Chandler, Gallo or Fields, Fields or Chandler, whatever the hell you can come up with - if it lands you the talent that is Melo, you do it!! These guys aren't scrubs, but they aren't and will never be, Melo..... so hold onto them for dear life all you want, talk about their amazing potential to be role players..... they won't have no role to play in anything meaningful without Melo here

Again like Stephen A said, Knicks will find a way to blow this. be it passing up on this and nets/bulls dark horse coming in and snaking him or whatever... It would be unlike the Knicks to not blow it..... I'm confident Donnie isn't stupid, but don't blow it.

[god shammgod]

Again like Stephen A said, Knicks will find a way to blow this. be it passing up on this and nets/bulls dark horse coming in and snaking him or whatever... It would be unlike the Knicks to not blow it..... I'm confident Donnie isn't stupid, but don't blow it.

nah. if it comes down to it, dolan will make the trade happen. to me, it's really only a question of what we're giving up.

[Pharmcat]

I'm all for getting Melo. 100% for it. But at some point the value of Melo on your team at the cost of giving up 3 starters becomes less.

Unless the CBA changes drastically to facilitate us geting a third star, I just don't see how it is financially feasible at this moment. Amare and Melo will make up 40million of the cap. That is irrefutable. If people thought that we dont have assets now, what happens in 2012 when deron, cp3, and dwight are all asking to be traded and we can only offer minimums + 2 guys who have no ceiling? Then consider that there will be other teams who are under the cap and have better offers? What if Bosh becomes available? Noah for Dwight? It almost isnt a one horse race.

And consider that we'll all but certainly have to let Fields walk?? Is everyone ready for that?

yessir, if the NY big 3 plan is to succeed, EVERY1(other than amare.melo) has to be gone, that includes gallo and fields

if one doesnt want to do the big 3, there is still ways to maneuever and have 10 mill to play this OS

take your pick, lots of options, but get melo first

[magnumt]

Thread 18: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1092352