Porzingis Unicorn #3 Thread

[battabing10]

Porzingis can't put the ball on the floor, stop spreading this myth. He gets shut down every time he tries creating his own shot. He's a catch and shoot shooter. The putting the ball on the floor part is still something we are waiting for him to develop. He also does not have a few post moves, he has 1 move and it's a turnaround jumper which he still struggles to make consistently.

Read on Twitter

Thank goodness you made this post before that tweet just got posted.

Now if we only lived in a world where that happened on the regular. Count how many times he did that move all of last year

he's been working on putting the ball on the floor all summer long in various tournaments. hope you're hat is tasty.

[HEZI]

Thank goodness you made this post before that tweet just got posted.

Now if we only lived in a world where that happened on the regular. Count how many times he did that move all of last year

he's been working on putting the ball on the floor all summer long in various tournaments. hope you're hat is tasty.

Yeah and Deandre Jordan works on free throws every summer. Saying he's working on it and him actually being able to do it consistently especially in the NBA are two different things. I'm glad he's working on his game, it's what he's expected to do being that he's a pro athlete and all.

[battabing10]

Now if we only lived in a world where that happened on the regular. Count how many times he did that move all of last year

he's been working on putting the ball on the floor all summer long in various tournaments. hope you're hat is tasty.

Yeah and Deandre Jordan works on free throws every summer. Saying he's working on it and him actually being able to do it consistently especially in the NBA are two different things. I'm glad he's working on his game, it's what he's expected to do being that he's a pro athlete and all.

lousy comparison. kp6 has been playing basketball from early childhood, so it will be *relatively* easy for him to incorporate skill moves. jordan looks like a late-arriver to the sport and he doesn't seem to possess the fine motor skills required to be a good shooter. there are too many big men to count in today's nba who simply started the sport too late or were not coached properly to force them to work on basketball skills. hakeem, on the other hand, is a perfect example of an athlete who transplanted his footwork from soccer to basketball. but then hakeem is a far superior natural athlete compared to the deandre jordans and dwight howards of the world.

and speaking of athleticism, who is the better athlete between jordan and porzingis? just curious-- no agenda here.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I would love to hear about all of these 7'3 players with a crossover. Who can put it on the floor. Has a few post moves. Can shoot from anywhere. Blocks shots and plays defense. Gets out in transition. LOL He's not a unique player?

Does he need to improve? Uh...yeah. He's 22 years old going into his 3rd season. He dropped 18/7/1.5/2 in his second season in hell. Has historical numbers during that span. He's not your average player. That's crazy.

[Sark]

Mind Dog goin in.

[HarthorneWingo]

I'm not necessarily the biggest Janis fan, but I think people misunderstand the remark. I think both Janis and KP see KP as another Dirk. Could Dirk post? Absolutely. Did he live in the post? No. I "think" they envision KP playing out of the triple threat position and outside, but going inside to bang pure post only sometimes. Just a thought. Clearly KP needs to be in the post at least sometimes, but I think he can do well where he sets up a little further out and can use his length of stride and overall length to get into the paint with less banging around. A lot of C's have featured a move like this, including Ewing, but Ewing used it to set up his jumper, plus of course he lived in the post. I think KP should make it a staple, that drive across the court into the lane, with a hook.

But having someone 7'3" who could draw so much attention in the paint could open up so much for the rest of the team. Not that he live down there, but like you said, it's crazy not to take advantage of that hardly at all. **** Janis.

Anyhow, I think those who think that KP needs to make the Knicks "his team" and demand the ball, etc., are deluding themselves and/or trying to delude us into setting KP up for failure. I'm really not looking for KP to turn into a 25 ppg scorer this year. If he scored in the 18-20 ppg range but improved his efficiency, rebounding, passing and defense, I'll be extremely an happy Knicks' fan.

[reub]

KP needs to learn how to receive the ball down low in position to shoot ala the Kareem skyhook. He's not going to be able to dribble through the defense on a consistent basis so if he wants to develop a high percentage interior game he should position himself closer to the basket and then demand the ball. He's got good technique on that hook shot.

[Knicksfan20]

Yeah the Unicorn nickname is just silly. There have been plenty of guys throughout the years who have the same skillset as KP, the only difference is that he's a couple inches taller, big deal. KP has the tools to be a really good player, of course, but to act like he's some unique talent that the league has never seen is just foolish. Him being 7'3" really doesn't play that much of a role on the basketball court. He could be 6'11" and his skills would translate the exact same way.

People forget just how good Chris Bosh was and he was doing the exact same thing that KP can do. Nowadays there are a few guys with the same skillset as KP, they just aren't listed as 7'3" but that's not stopping them from doing the exact same things he can do plus more.

Yeah, I agree, I fell into that 7'3'' hype trap too. You see, during his rookie year, I thought he was just scared to go down low because he was a twig, and thought man, surely he has to have a simple hook shot, right? He can turn around and toss the ball into the bucket all day. I was a few rows away from the court at MSG and watched him live, he towers above others, and I was getting frustrated because we were getting blown out by the Cavs, and all I could think was why can't he just catch it, turn around and shoot it over the **** guy....HE'S 7'3'' MANNNNNNN lol....so what good is all the "only 7''3' guy who can do crossovers" if that 7'3'' of height can't be taken advantage of to the fullest? But the more I watch him I realize he's not interested to play that way. Lord/God Janis even came out and made this clear...as to why he's not working on his post game more...."it's not the future of basketball" or some ****.

If he was playing like a true 7'3'' guy on offense, like on the low block, for example like Jokic, or hell, for this argument's sake, KG, and ON TOP of that he could do his crossover, his fadeaway baseline jay, his three's, his left right shake and bake, then he would truly be unique and the height would matter and would be a big deal. Like you pointed out, he doesn't use that height any better than some regular old 7 footer, on offense or defense. As of now, he's just a really tall guard (on offense), so him being the most unique talent evarrr at 7 foot and a holy three inches is kind of a pointless argument to have.

With that being said, the kid is only 22 years old. He could be the next Kareem down low and Ray Allen from outside for all we know. An offensive combo even half as good as that would make him truly special, but whatever happens....he's fun to watch man, and I love watching him play.....and in that aspect at least, as a Knick, compared to the turds that have worn this uniform, he truly is unique.

So he got compared to Bosh. I know the argument is about uniqueness and what KP can actually deliver in that regard. Just going to point out that Bosh was considered a franchise type player you build around, then got lauded for sublimating his game for the good of the big 3 and winning 3 championships.

I'd take KP being Bosh.

Also, height does sort of factor into people's appreciation factor of a player, even if that's sort of the "showbiz" part of the NBA.

I mean, who really gives a sh*t about Spud Webb or Nate Robinson if they posted the same results but at 6'2"?

Bosh had a killer post game though. 1 on 1 he could score on any body.

[HarthorneWingo]

KP needs to learn how to receive the ball down low in position to shoot ala the Kareem skyhook. He's not going to be able to dribble through the defense on a consistent basis so if he wants to develop a high percentage interior game he should position himself closer to the basket and then demand the ball. He's got good technique on that hook shot.

I keep on clamoring for KP to learn that from Kareem. Jabbar had a 7'5" wingspan and KP has a 7'6" wingspan. So it seems logical that KP would have an easier time getting of that shot if he could learn the mechanics of it. I guess hand size would make a difference.

[Wolfgang630]

I've been watching Kareem sky hook videos on YouTube. It's such a perfect shot for KP to learn. He doesn't have to go banging through the paint for that shot.

[reub]

I've been watching Kareem sky hook videos on YouTube. It's such a perfect shot for KP to learn. He doesn't have to go banging through the paint for that shot.

I actually sent KP Kareem sky hook videos last season. But that was before he started missing exit meetings and cowering to Melo.

[thebuzzardman]

Yeah, I agree, I fell into that 7'3'' hype trap too. You see, during his rookie year, I thought he was just scared to go down low because he was a twig, and thought man, surely he has to have a simple hook shot, right? He can turn around and toss the ball into the bucket all day. I was a few rows away from the court at MSG and watched him live, he towers above others, and I was getting frustrated because we were getting blown out by the Cavs, and all I could think was why can't he just catch it, turn around and shoot it over the **** guy....HE'S 7'3'' MANNNNNNN lol....so what good is all the "only 7''3' guy who can do crossovers" if that 7'3'' of height can't be taken advantage of to the fullest? But the more I watch him I realize he's not interested to play that way. Lord/God Janis even came out and made this clear...as to why he's not working on his post game more...."it's not the future of basketball" or some ****.

If he was playing like a true 7'3'' guy on offense, like on the low block, for example like Jokic, or hell, for this argument's sake, KG, and ON TOP of that he could do his crossover, his fadeaway baseline jay, his three's, his left right shake and bake, then he would truly be unique and the height would matter and would be a big deal. Like you pointed out, he doesn't use that height any better than some regular old 7 footer, on offense or defense. As of now, he's just a really tall guard (on offense), so him being the most unique talent evarrr at 7 foot and a holy three inches is kind of a pointless argument to have.

With that being said, the kid is only 22 years old. He could be the next Kareem down low and Ray Allen from outside for all we know. An offensive combo even half as good as that would make him truly special, but whatever happens....he's fun to watch man, and I love watching him play.....and in that aspect at least, as a Knick, compared to the turds that have worn this uniform, he truly is unique.

So he got compared to Bosh. I know the argument is about uniqueness and what KP can actually deliver in that regard. Just going to point out that Bosh was considered a franchise type player you build around, then got lauded for sublimating his game for the good of the big 3 and winning 3 championships.

I'd take KP being Bosh.

Also, height does sort of factor into people's appreciation factor of a player, even if that's sort of the "showbiz" part of the NBA.

I mean, who really gives a sh*t about Spud Webb or Nate Robinson if they posted the same results but at 6'2"?

Bosh had a killer post game though. 1 on 1 he could score on any body.

Well, I didn't compare him to Bosh, but I'd assume the comparison was based on Bosh being a good shooter for a tall guy, plus possessing other skills, and that doesn't make KP that unique, or that it doesn't make him unique enough, in that the extra few inches aren't difference makers enough in that guys who are 6'11" or 7'0 accomplish the same things, so so what. It's not my argument, but that's the summary?

KP has a somewhat unique skill set, but it's not like it hasn't been seen before. Heck, Dirk was a very accomplished outside shooter, put the ball on the floor guy with agility at 7 foot, so it's not new. It's certainly rare, or was, but more tall guys were and are getting the green light to shoot every year.

It's all a semantics argument. What makes a unicorn? One attribute/skill never seen before? Doing something that's been before in a SIMILAR body, but then being 30 lbs more muscular or 3 or 4 inches taller or 3 or 4 inches shorter? Again, it's the showbiz angle.

Here's an example. (and I'll probably get slaughtered by fanboys, but here goes).
Greekfreek. The true unicorn, some say. Never been a guy like him. That height and that skill with passing etc.
One the one hand, that's true. Never been a guy 6'11 who passes well and has a nice all around game.
But if we throw away 3 inches, hello Scottie Pippen.
Getting up the court in 3 strides or 4 or whatever, that's never been done before. Does that one thing make him a unicorn? Could be. I'm not sure what the definition is. Certainly Connie Hawkins or Dr J could cover a lot of ground getting up the court and Dr J was a good passer. Is Giannis a better passer? Not sure. The Nets offense would go through Dr J at times, but not to the extent Bucks do with Giannis. Anyway, he certainly has uniqueness over Dr J is terms of height and passing. With Pippen, I see it mostly as just height as Pippen could point forward, play incredible D, rebound like a demon, handle the ball and had a good all around offensive game, at 6'8, which is 3 inches shorter than Giannis, which going by the "KP is only 3 inches taller than other C's, who cares" leads me to say "Giannis is only 3 inches taller than Pippen, who cares"

Or, if talking about tall, athletic point forwards of a more recent vintage who are athletic, hello LeBron James. Everything Giannis is, but at 3 inches shorter, but stronger. Certainly he's every bit the athlete Giannis is, in a different way.

Oh, Magic was 6'9" and a far better passer and ball handler than Giannis, but not nearly the athlete. Does the height+handle+passing minus 2 inches mean Giannis isn't so unique?

To me, LeBron may be the most unique player now and of the last 10 years. Pippens game + Magics game + Karl Malone's body. Never been seen before and another hasn't shown up while LeBron is playing.

But again, what is "Unicornish". It's just a fun marketing term from the showbiz side that is the NBA. There is always similar guys. If you want to run with one trait make a Unicorn, then that's fine. If not, then I'm not seeing any Unicorns in the NBA. Hell, if you throw away athletic muscularity, then LeBron isn't so totally unique from Magic or Pippen, but again, even for a guy to just roll up those two players into one would be unique, and then to be Karl Malone sized, to me is the Unicorn.

I mean, why did people get excited on a certain level about Nate Robinson more than they did Allen Iverson? I mean, Iverson was the far superior player with a 2 to 3 inch height differential, yet lots of Knicks fans went gaga over Nate's uniqueness, but his height differential is the same as KP's to Dirk's etc. No big deal. Ok, then Nate was an undersized shooting guard who dunked then and wasn't a superior small scoring PG/SG like Iverson or dynamic passing/scoring PG like Strickland. Yawns to Nate.

[Knicksfan20]

Well, I didn't compare him to Bosh, but I'd assume the comparison was based on Bosh being a good shooter for a tall guy, plus possessing other skills, and that doesn't make KP that unique, or that it doesn't make him unique enough, in that the extra few inches aren't difference makers enough in that guys who are 6'11" or 7'0 accomplish the same things, so so what. It's not my argument, but that's the summary?

KP has a somewhat unique skill set, but it's not like it hasn't been seen before. Heck, Dirk was a very accomplished outside shooter, put the ball on the floor guy with agility at 7 foot, so it's not new. It's certainly rare, or was, but more tall guys were and are getting the green light to shoot every year.

It's all a semantics argument. What makes a unicorn? One attribute/skill never seen before? Doing something that's been before in a SIMILAR body, but then being 30 lbs more muscular or 3 or 4 inches taller or 3 or 4 inches shorter? Again, it's the showbiz angle.

Here's an example. (and I'll probably get slaughtered by fanboys, but here goes).
Greekfreek. The true unicorn, some say. Never been a guy like him. That height and that skill with passing etc.
One the one hand, that's true. Never been a guy 6'11 who passes well and has a nice all around game.
But if we throw away 3 inches, hello Scottie Pippen.
Getting up the court in 3 strides or 4 or whatever, that's never been done before. Does that one thing make him a unicorn? Could be. I'm not sure what the definition is. Certainly Connie Hawkins or Dr J could cover a lot of ground getting up the court and Dr J was a good passer. Is Giannis a better passer? Not sure. The Nets offense would go through Dr J at times, but not to the extent Bucks do with Giannis. Anyway, he certainly has uniqueness over Dr J is terms of height and passing. With Pippen, I see it mostly as just height as Pippen could point forward, play incredible D, rebound like a demon, handle the ball and had a good all around offensive game, at 6'8, which is 3 inches shorter than Giannis, which going by the "KP is only 3 inches taller than other C's, who cares" leads me to say "Giannis is only 3 inches taller than Pippen, who cares"

Or, if talking about tall, athletic point forwards of a more recent vintage who athletic, hello LeBron James. Everything Giannis is, but at 3 inches shorter, but stronger. Certainly he's every bit the athlete Giannis is, in a different way.

Oh, Magic was 6'9" and a far better passer and ball handler than Giannis, but not nearly the athlete. Does the height+handle+passing minus 2 inches mean Giannis isn't so unique?

To me, LeBron may be the most unique player now and of the last 10 years. Pippens game + Magics game + Karl Malone's body. Never been seen before and another hasn't shown up while LeBron is playing.

But again, what is "Unicornish". It's just a fun marketing term from the showbiz side that is the NBA. There is always similar guys. If you want to run with one trait make a Unicorn, then that's fine. If not, then I'm not seeing any Unicorns in the NBA. Hell, if you throw away athletic muscularity, then LeBron isn't so totally unique from Magic or Pippen, but again, even for a guy to just roll up those two players into one would be unique, and then to be Karl Malone sized, to me is the Unicorn.

I mean, why did people get excited on a certain level about Nate Robinson more than they did Allen Iverson? I mean, Iverson was the far superior player with a 2 to 3 inch height differential, yet lots of Knicks fans went gaga over Nate's uniqueness, but his height differential is the same as KP's to Dirk's etc. No big deal. Ok, then Nate was an undersized shooting guard who dunked then and wasn't a superior small scoring PG/SG like Iverson or dynamic passing/scoring PG like Strickland. Yawns to Nate.

Agree with everything here except the DJ Comparison since I never really watched him play. So ill just take your word for it. I agree that Lebron James is a Unicorn and Id say the same thing for Kevin Durant.

[KnicksGadfly]

If KP is a C that plays on the perimeter, he'll suck away a lot of attention. Hell, Steve Novak's impact on our team used to be huge, just because he would just stand outside. Kyle Korver never scored as much as the 1As on his team but he warped the court. Or the fact that Dirk Nowitzki can make Monta Ellis look playable.

If KP is a C that plays on the inside, he'll suck a lot of attention too, but we've seen those prototypes. Those type of guys are also earning less money and finding more bench roles these days.

It really depends on the personnel we put around him. If we get a ton of other shooters, the latter is better. If we get a ton of drivers without a shot, we probably want KP outside. But of course, doing both is the best. But if KP ends up being more of a KG type of player (not a 1A option, but still one of the most dominant players ever from his overall game), as opposed to a 1A option type, then I'll still be damn happy.

I think KP is gonna be his own type of player, and that's fine with me. If he finds success on the perimeter, good for him. And if he finds it in the post, good for him. But succeeds is the main term.

[thebuzzardman]

Well, I didn't compare him to Bosh, but I'd assume the comparison was based on Bosh being a good shooter for a tall guy, plus possessing other skills, and that doesn't make KP that unique, or that it doesn't make him unique enough, in that the extra few inches aren't difference makers enough in that guys who are 6'11" or 7'0 accomplish the same things, so so what. It's not my argument, but that's the summary?

KP has a somewhat unique skill set, but it's not like it hasn't been seen before. Heck, Dirk was a very accomplished outside shooter, put the ball on the floor guy with agility at 7 foot, so it's not new. It's certainly rare, or was, but more tall guys were and are getting the green light to shoot every year.

It's all a semantics argument. What makes a unicorn? One attribute/skill never seen before? Doing something that's been before in a SIMILAR body, but then being 30 lbs more muscular or 3 or 4 inches taller or 3 or 4 inches shorter? Again, it's the showbiz angle.

Here's an example. (and I'll probably get slaughtered by fanboys, but here goes).
Greekfreek. The true unicorn, some say. Never been a guy like him. That height and that skill with passing etc.
One the one hand, that's true. Never been a guy 6'11 who passes well and has a nice all around game.
But if we throw away 3 inches, hello Scottie Pippen.
Getting up the court in 3 strides or 4 or whatever, that's never been done before. Does that one thing make him a unicorn? Could be. I'm not sure what the definition is. Certainly Connie Hawkins or Dr J could cover a lot of ground getting up the court and Dr J was a good passer. Is Giannis a better passer? Not sure. The Nets offense would go through Dr J at times, but not to the extent Bucks do with Giannis. Anyway, he certainly has uniqueness over Dr J is terms of height and passing. With Pippen, I see it mostly as just height as Pippen could point forward, play incredible D, rebound like a demon, handle the ball and had a good all around offensive game, at 6'8, which is 3 inches shorter than Giannis, which going by the "KP is only 3 inches taller than other C's, who cares" leads me to say "Giannis is only 3 inches taller than Pippen, who cares"

Or, if talking about tall, athletic point forwards of a more recent vintage who athletic, hello LeBron James. Everything Giannis is, but at 3 inches shorter, but stronger. Certainly he's every bit the athlete Giannis is, in a different way.

Oh, Magic was 6'9" and a far better passer and ball handler than Giannis, but not nearly the athlete. Does the height+handle+passing minus 2 inches mean Giannis isn't so unique?

To me, LeBron may be the most unique player now and of the last 10 years. Pippens game + Magics game + Karl Malone's body. Never been seen before and another hasn't shown up while LeBron is playing.

But again, what is "Unicornish". It's just a fun marketing term from the showbiz side that is the NBA. There is always similar guys. If you want to run with one trait make a Unicorn, then that's fine. If not, then I'm not seeing any Unicorns in the NBA. Hell, if you throw away athletic muscularity, then LeBron isn't so totally unique from Magic or Pippen, but again, even for a guy to just roll up those two players into one would be unique, and then to be Karl Malone sized, to me is the Unicorn.

I mean, why did people get excited on a certain level about Nate Robinson more than they did Allen Iverson? I mean, Iverson was the far superior player with a 2 to 3 inch height differential, yet lots of Knicks fans went gaga over Nate's uniqueness, but his height differential is the same as KP's to Dirk's etc. No big deal. Ok, then Nate was an undersized shooting guard who dunked then and wasn't a superior small scoring PG/SG like Iverson or dynamic passing/scoring PG like Strickland. Yawns to Nate.

Agree with everything here except the DJ Comparison since I never really watched him play. So ill just take your word for it. I agree that Lebron James is a Unicorn and Id say the same thing for Kevin Durant.

Dr J was sort of Jordan before Jordan, at least the ABA version and maybe the first year of Philly, in terms of offensive dynamism, incredible moves, but Jordan surpassed him. I know it's a weird comparison because Jordan was a guard and Dr J a SF. Mostly in terms of Dr J's run of dominance and the hoopla and excitement around him at the time. And Dr J was called evolutionary Elgin Baylor but he's before my time. I more threw him in as a great player with some height at SF with the all around game who got up the court in a hurry.

I'm not a fan of "Unicorn" argument for really any player. I think the best definitions are guy who has multiple skills at height never seen before or plays at a high level completely out of position, the expected position for that height

Magic
Lebron
Durant (because true SF/SG blend skills at 7')

All I've got.

I mean, Iverson was such a dynamo at (generously) 6'0, but to include him I've got to starting thinking about Isiah Thomas (Pistons) as a dominant small guard - point being you can suddenly rattle off some great small guards (KJ, Strictland). Short list, but still.

[thebuzzardman]

I get the KP not a unicorn argument though. I think the extra 3 inches to a good outside shooter means something (if the height = unicornism means something) but then again, it's not THAT unique in that a lot of C's shoot outside now. Crossing over and ball handling is unique, and he's definitely used it to success in games, but it's not totally a weapon, a go to anytime thing. And KP seems to be a very comfortable outside shooter in a way that even all the good shooting bigs aren't, a fluidity they don't have, but it's not Durant level fluidity (not comparing them) and I'm not even sure his shooting % from 3 even reflects what appears to be his more natural outside ability (if true).

I think there is good bit of "Projecting Unicornishness" on KP based on the fact he shows tantalizing bits of things at height and there is the assumption by the glass half full KP crowd that those will continue to develop, while the glass half empty KP crowd isn't as sold. Next two years will tell.

[HEZI]

he's been working on putting the ball on the floor all summer long in various tournaments. hope you're hat is tasty.

Yeah and Deandre Jordan works on free throws every summer. Saying he's working on it and him actually being able to do it consistently especially in the NBA are two different things. I'm glad he's working on his game, it's what he's expected to do being that he's a pro athlete and all.

lousy comparison. kp6 has been playing basketball from early childhood, so it will be *relatively* easy for him to incorporate skill moves. jordan looks like a late-arriver to the sport and he doesn't seem to possess the fine motor skills required to be a good shooter. there are too many big men to count in today's nba who simply started the sport too late or were not coached properly to force them to work on basketball skills. hakeem, on the other hand, is a perfect example of an athlete who transplanted his footwork from soccer to basketball. but then hakeem is a far superior natural athlete compared to the deandre jordans and dwight howards of the world.

and speaking of athleticism, who is the better athlete between jordan and porzingis? just curious-- no agenda here.

No this is not true. Plenty of guys have been playing the sport for a long time and still never learned how to shoot or never developed other skills. It all depends on the individual. What I was basically saying is wait until Porzingis is actually comfortable and having success with putting the ball on the floor before you start saying he can do it consistently. When you compare the abilities of guys like KAT, Davis, Embiid to Porzingis, there is no question that those guys are much better at putting the ball on the floor and creating plays than Porzingis is. KP still has ways to go.

As far as athleticism, I don't know who is a better athlete between Deandre Jordan and Porzingis, both guys are pretty athletic

[thebuzzardman]

Yeah and Deandre Jordan works on free throws every summer. Saying he's working on it and him actually being able to do it consistently especially in the NBA are two different things. I'm glad he's working on his game, it's what he's expected to do being that he's a pro athlete and all.

lousy comparison. kp6 has been playing basketball from early childhood, so it will be *relatively* easy for him to incorporate skill moves. jordan looks like a late-arriver to the sport and he doesn't seem to possess the fine motor skills required to be a good shooter. there are too many big men to count in today's nba who simply started the sport too late or were not coached properly to force them to work on basketball skills. hakeem, on the other hand, is a perfect example of an athlete who transplanted his footwork from soccer to basketball. but then hakeem is a far superior natural athlete compared to the deandre jordans and dwight howards of the world.

and speaking of athleticism, who is the better athlete between jordan and porzingis? just curious-- no agenda here.

No this is not true. Plenty of guys have been playing the sport for a long time and still never learned how to shoot or never developed other skills. It all depends on the individual. What I was basically saying is wait until Porzingis is actually comfortable and having success with putting the ball on the floor before you start saying he can do it consistently. When you compare the abilities of guys like KAT, Davis, Embiid to Porzingis, there is no question that those guys are much better at putting the ball on the floor and creating plays than Porzingis is. KP still has ways to go.

As far as athleticism, I don't know who is a better athlete between Deandre Jordan and Porzingis, both guys are pretty athletic

Embiid, Davis and KAT are a bit different than KP in that they can put the ball on the floor with some comfort or good for bigs, but it's generally in support of straight line drives to the basket. Yes, they can hit outside shots too. KP is more of an outside shooter first, uses his handle to set up outside jumpers, and also has some ability with the handle and straight line drives etc, but with with more mixed results - he'll look pretty decent with one sort of move, and awkward, wtf, with some others.

Davis (obviously) and KAT and Embiid look more like they have realized their offensive potential sooner or are just that much more talented offensively. That's ok. Sort of agreeing with the guy who said KP's ability to stretch the floor at 5 or even 4, combined with his defensive presence, it a really good thing. I know the debate is over uniqueness here, but as long as KP adds SOME post game, I'll be ok, because I think KP and WillieB together on the floor will make a really cool inside/outside presence for years and KP will add some inside game and WillieB will add just enough outside shooting - making the Kurt Thomas jumpers, to really be effective and show some interesting looks, interior passing, inside/outside passing etc.

[HEZI]

lousy comparison. kp6 has been playing basketball from early childhood, so it will be *relatively* easy for him to incorporate skill moves. jordan looks like a late-arriver to the sport and he doesn't seem to possess the fine motor skills required to be a good shooter. there are too many big men to count in today's nba who simply started the sport too late or were not coached properly to force them to work on basketball skills. hakeem, on the other hand, is a perfect example of an athlete who transplanted his footwork from soccer to basketball. but then hakeem is a far superior natural athlete compared to the deandre jordans and dwight howards of the world.

and speaking of athleticism, who is the better athlete between jordan and porzingis? just curious-- no agenda here.

No this is not true. Plenty of guys have been playing the sport for a long time and still never learned how to shoot or never developed other skills. It all depends on the individual. What I was basically saying is wait until Porzingis is actually comfortable and having success with putting the ball on the floor before you start saying he can do it consistently. When you compare the abilities of guys like KAT, Davis, Embiid to Porzingis, there is no question that those guys are much better at putting the ball on the floor and creating plays than Porzingis is. KP still has ways to go.

As far as athleticism, I don't know who is a better athlete between Deandre Jordan and Porzingis, both guys are pretty athletic

Embiid, Davis and KAT are a bit different than KP in that they can put the ball on the floor with some comfort or good for bigs, but it's generally in support of straight line drives to the basket. Yes, they can hit outside shots too. KP is more of an outside shooter first, uses his handle to set up outside jumpers, and also has some ability with the handle and straight line drives etc, but with with more mixed results - he'll look pretty decent with one sort of move, and awkward, wtf, with some others.

Davis (obviously) and KAT and Embiid look more like they have realized their offensive potential sooner or are just that much more talented offensively. That's ok. Sort of agreeing with the guy who said KP's ability to stretch the floor at 5 or even 4, combined with his defensive presence, it a really good thing. I know the debate is over uniqueness here, but as long as KP adds SOME post game, I'll be ok, because I think KP and WillieB together on the floor will make a really cool inside/outside presence for years and KP will add some inside game and WillieB will add just enough outside shooting - making the Kurt Thomas jumpers, to really be effective and show some interesting looks, interior passing, inside/outside passing etc.

I'm not too sure about KAT and Embiid but I do know that Davis was a guard in High School and then had an incredible growth spurt somewhere around his junior or senior year, so he had developed those guard-like skills at a very early age. KAT was restricted to the inside during his days at Kentucky but it was very obvious once he got to the league that he had a lot more individual skills. It's also not just about line drives, these guys developed big man tendencies at an early age so not only can they put the ball on the floor and make plays facing the basket but they can also put the ball on the floor and make plays with their backs to the basket as well. Porzingis on the other hand hasn't shown any developed skills other than the ability to shoot. He will pull a rabbit out of a hat every once in a while but there is no real consistency there. More often than not I saw him get the ball and he had no idea what he was going to do with it, this resulted in some WTF moments like you mentioned. This inability to do anything with the ball also resulted in a lot of settling for jumpers, he settled for way too many jumpers last season, where some of those other guys would have attacked and got to the basket and at the very least got to the free throw line. Even a guy like Jokic has more abilities when it comes to putting the ball on the floor. Porzingis is still a work in progress in these areas.

[Knicks Byke]

unicorns dont eem exist, b.