Bucks News, Trades, Transactions - CP3/Gallo trade idea pg.81

[raferfenix]

DJ + Brown + Bender + Pacers pick for Bogdan.

There were reports earlier in the year they wanted a 1st round pick for him after he turned down a 4 for 51 extension. With their commitments to Barnes/Buddy it may make sense to move him for more affordable win now pieces.

We'd have to be willing to pay Bogdan like a starter this offseason. But if we are, this kind of deal would consolidate our lineup, while also opening up 2 roster spots if / when someone we likes comes out on the waiver wire.

My thinking is if the Bucks believe DJ has untapped potential that Bud has been harnessing in practice (with a tough love approach to game time to aid his development) it'd be different than if there isn't a plan for him to play more than 3rd string PF minutes for the next season and a half.

PG: Bledsoe, Hill
SG: Bogdanovic, Donte, Pat
SF: Middleton, Wes, Korver, Thanos
PF: Giannis, Ersan
C: BroLo, RoLo

[PG Graveyard]

Am I missing something that Jrue Holiday is such a huge upgrade that we should throw Bledsoe/Ersan/DDV/1st for him. I think Bled is at least as good of a defender if not better and from a offensive standpoint has similar numbers on a per 36 basis. Not to mention giving up two more quality players and a 1st.

[jschligs]

Am I missing something that Jrue Holiday is such a huge upgrade that we should throw Bledsoe/Ersan/DDV/1st for him. I think Bled is at least as good of a defender if not better and from a offensive standpoint has similar numbers on a per 36 basis. Not to mention giving up two more quality players and a 1st.

He’s not an upgrade and I’m not trading for him.

[chonestown]

Am I missing something that Jrue Holiday is such a huge upgrade that we should throw Bledsoe/Ersan/DDV/1st for him. I think Bled is at least as good of a defender if not better and from a offensive standpoint has similar numbers on a per 36 basis. Not to mention giving up two more quality players and a 1st.

You're not. I'll grant that Holiday is a marginal upgrade, but he isn't worth that premium.

[leroyjw10]

Am I missing something that Jrue Holiday is such a huge upgrade that we should throw Bledsoe/Ersan/DDV/1st for him. I think Bled is at least as good of a defender if not better and from a offensive standpoint has similar numbers on a per 36 basis. Not to mention giving up two more quality players and a 1st.

He’s not an upgrade and I’m not trading for him.

I wouldn't give up the farm to get him, but I think Holiday is absolutely an upgrade. We need to look beyond regular-season numbers and think about the playoffs, where Holiday has been the better performer (see below). His playoff performance two years ago when he averaged 22/6/5 while completely shutting down Lillard is a prime example.

This is about winning a championship, and I don't trust Bledsoe one iota in the playoffs. I'd much rather go into battle with Holiday than Bledsoe. I'd do Bledsoe/Ers/1st, but wouldn't include Donte.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jrue+Holiday&player_id1_select=Jrue+Holiday&player_id1=holidjr01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id2_select=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id2=bledser01&idx=players

[ReasonablySober]

I can't even think of a semi-realistic trade that would get me to trade Donte.

[tydett]

I can't even think of a semi-realistic trade that would get me to trade Donte.

Yeah, just about anybody that I'm sending him out for involves including Middleton or Bledsoe for a top 15 player. His on-court impact and contract control for the next 2 years renders him more important than Random Role Player A Who Might Help This Year and Then Be Gone Forever Like Aaron Hernandez.

[Diggr14]

I can't even think of a semi-realistic trade that would get me to trade Donte.

Donte for Baby Jesus?

Still pass.

Im with you man... for what we'd get back, he is too valuable and under the radar at this point to ever move.

[Ron Swanson]

I have to wonder how much of an upgrade a guy like Bogdan or Holiday would actually be if you're simply plugging him in at the 2-guard, considering how perfect of a fit Wes has been in an off-ball role with the starters. It's not nearly as simple as hoarding as many "play-makers" as you can in the starting lineup. What Wes and Brook have done this year has pretty much proven that.

[LuessiT]

Swapping out Bledsoe for Holiday does nothing for me. Bledsoe is a way better point of attack defender. It's unifying them which is attractive to me.

[jschligs]

Am I missing something that Jrue Holiday is such a huge upgrade that we should throw Bledsoe/Ersan/DDV/1st for him. I think Bled is at least as good of a defender if not better and from a offensive standpoint has similar numbers on a per 36 basis. Not to mention giving up two more quality players and a 1st.

He’s not an upgrade and I’m not trading for him.

I wouldn't give up the farm to get him, but I think Holiday is absolutely an upgrade. We need to look beyond regular-season numbers and think about the playoffs, where Holiday has been the better performer (see below). His playoff performance two years ago when he averaged 22/6/5 while completely shutting down Lillard is a prime example.

This is about winning a championship, and I don't trust Bledsoe one iota in the playoffs. I'd much rather go into battle with Holiday than Bledsoe. I'd do Bledsoe/Ers/1st, but wouldn't include Donte.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jrue+Holiday&player_id1_select=Jrue+Holiday&player_id1=holidjr01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id2_select=Eric+Bledsoe&player_id2=bledser01&idx=players

I should clarify that I meant Jrue was not an upgrade over DDV/Bledsoe/Ersan and a 1st. Hell, I'm not even sending just DDV and a pick to get Jrue. DDV is staying in MKE for a long time in my mind.

[slos]

Going from Bled to Jrue is 100% a playoff upgrade, but I'm not sure it moves the needle. Going from Bled to healthy and commited Paul 100% moves the needle, but you can't be sure that he will be healthy and commited. Between the two I would pull the trigger for the higher reward risk, if Bucks feel that they miss something to win it all.

I posted something similar in the trade board, I will try to make it look a little better for Milwaukee here.

Milwaukee in Paul, Noel (via waivers), Wood (via waivers), Frazier (via waivers), DET 2020 FRP (top 10 protected), CHI 2020 SRP, OKC 2021 SRP, LAL 2021 SRP, 5.5 mil cash from Oklahoma
Milwaukee out Bledsoe, Ilyasova, RoLo, Korver, Connaughton

Detroit in Bledsoe, Ilyasova, RoLo
Detroit out Jackson, Snell, Wood (waive), Frazier (waive), 2020 FRP (top 10 protected), 2021 LAL SRP

Oklahoma in Jackson, Snell, Korver, Connaughton
Oklahoma out Paul, Noel (waive), 2020 CHI SRP, 2021 SRP, 5.5 mil cash

- Money works. Bucks end up 11 mil over the tax after they fill their last spot, but half of it is paid by Oklahoma. The four picks will also help them get cheap young players until Paul's contract expires.

- Playoff 9 man rotation

Paul (34)...........Hill (14)
Matthews (14)....DiVincenzo (20).......Hill (14)
Middleton (34)....Matthews (14)
Giannis (38).......Wilson (10)
Lopez (30).........Noel (14)..............Wilson (4)

- You have then Frazier, Brown, Thanasis, Wood, Bender and the last spot to play a ton of garbagge time in the regular season and get some burn in the playoffs only if an injury comes around. This is basically upgrading from Bled to Paul at the expense of downgrading from Ersan/RoLo to Wilson/Noel. I don't consider the latter a huge downgrade, since they will be playing limited minutes in the playoffs with Giannis and Brook playing more.

[Bernman]

PP opined Bled has a major impact on w/l in the regular season, maybe the most after Giannis. And he might be right. But if losing him drops us to not clear best team in the NBA, shouldn't that be all the more reason to move him pre trade deadline if given a decent return, when all indicators from the past are his impact falls off the cliff in the postseason and we won't necessarily have what we need to win a title w/out replacing that production loss? They bracket Giannis, Middleton is off in 1 series, and we're not left w/ much in that starting lineup given no Brogdon anymore.

So I'm for a Holiday type move to replace the halfcourt offense loss of Brogdon and Bledsoe in the playoffs, so long as the trade doesn't require much more than Eric. I might part w/ the Pacers 1st. Definitely if we could get a 3+d big wing from another team in the same trade. Maybe Ersan is the filler, but could have a pre-agreement he gets waived and just comes right back.

[DingleJerry]

Really have to force yourself not to overvalue small sample of the playoffs though. If Tor punted Lowry they wouldn't have that title. If they'd have benched FVV after he sucked the playoffs up until the last 4 games they wouldn't have that title.

Unless you're acquiring a legit star player all the cost in depth and picks probably is not worth the upgrade from Bled along with hoping with a couple years of experience he calms down a bit this year. And that he's worked on his shot and just gotten a bit better. That was really the killer last year. I'd add that with Hill in the fold you have your Bledsoe playoff insurance already. Hopefully Bud is a little quicker to use it this year than last and if Bled doesn't have just roll with Hill at crunch time. He still held back on that last year.

[BroncoBuck]

PP opined Bled has a major impact on w/l in the regular season, maybe the most after Giannis. And he might be right. But if losing him drops us to not clear best team in the NBA, shouldn't that be all the more reason to move him pre trade deadline if given a decent return, when all indicators from the past are his impact falls off the cliff in the postseason and we won't necessarily have what we need to win a title w/out replacing that production loss? They bracket Giannis, Middleton is off in 1 series, and we're not left w/ much in that starting lineup given no Brogdon anymore.

So I'm for a Holiday type move to replace the halfcourt offense loss of Brogdon and Bledsoe in the playoffs, so long as the trade doesn't require much more than Eric. I might part w/ the Pacers 1st. Definitely if we could get a 3+d big wing from another team in the same trade. Maybe Ersan is the filler, but could have a pre-agreement he gets waived and just comes right back.

Players can’t resign with a team that traded them away. I believe it was the Mavericks who abused this and the league did it in retaliation. I believe it applies a full year from the day of the trade. You’d see this all the time if that rule wasn’t in place.

[drone3]

Swapping out Bledsoe for Holiday does nothing for me. Bledsoe is a way better point of attack defender. It's unifying them which is attractive to me.

Yes, I would only trade for Jrue if we could combine him with Bled. Doesn't look like it's possible to make the trade work, but our D would be next level.

[Xanadu]

Only players I am willing to move DDV for would be Beal on up. Guys like Lillard or someone equally unlikely.

[raferfenix]

I have to wonder how much of an upgrade a guy like Bogdan or Holiday would actually be if you're simply plugging him in at the 2-guard, considering how perfect of a fit Wes has been in an off-ball role with the starters. It's not nearly as simple as hoarding as many "play-makers" as you can in the starting lineup. What Wes and Brook have done this year has pretty much proven that.

How the Bucks feel about Wes' role definitely comes into the equation.

He doesn't need as many shots as Brogdon did much less other players who would demand the ball even more. Maybe that's the preference as you describe.

I'd add how the Bucks project Donte's development is also a consideration if they want to clear the way for him to play more and more minutes this season and potentially become a starter down the road.

Possible we are more interested in a bench guy to consolidate some of the Brown / Pat / Korver minutes. Or we just stand pat.

Caveat: things could change quickly if / when injuries inevitably hit.

For instance, if Ersan goes down, Bud may or may not be comfortable riding DJ in important games.

That could be the difference between targeting someone more like RoCo vs either a playmaker or a role player in the backcourt.

[TroyD92]

Going from Bled to Jrue is 100% a playoff upgrade, but I'm not sure it moves the needle. Going from Bled to healthy and commited Paul 100% moves the needle, but you can't be sure that he will be healthy and commited. Between the two I would pull the trigger for the higher reward risk, if Bucks feel that they miss something to win it all.

I posted something similar in the trade board, I will try to make it look a little better for Milwaukee here.

Milwaukee in Paul, Noel (via waivers), Wood (via waivers), Frazier (via waivers), DET 2020 FRP (top 10 protected), CHI 2020 SRP, OKC 2021 SRP, LAL 2021 SRP, 5.5 mil cash from Oklahoma
Milwaukee out Bledsoe, Ilyasova, RoLo, Korver, Connaughton

Detroit in Bledsoe, Ilyasova, RoLo
Detroit out Jackson, Snell, Wood (waive), Frazier (waive), 2020 FRP (top 10 protected), 2021 LAL SRP

Oklahoma in Jackson, Snell, Korver, Connaughton
Oklahoma out Paul, Noel (waive), 2020 CHI SRP, 2021 SRP, 5.5 mil cash

- Money works. Bucks end up 11 mil over the tax after they fill their last spot, but half of it is paid by Oklahoma. The four picks will also help them get cheap young players until Paul's contract expires.

- Playoff 9 man rotation

Paul (34)...........Hill (14)
Matthews (14)....DiVincenzo (20).......Hill (14)
Middleton (34)....Matthews (14)
Giannis (38).......Wilson (10)
Lopez (30).........Noel (14)..............Wilson (4)

- You have then Frazier, Brown, Thanasis, Wood, Bender and the last spot to play a ton of garbagge time in the regular season and get some burn in the playoffs only if an injury comes around. This is basically upgrading from Bled to Paul at the expense of downgrading from Ersan/RoLo to Wilson/Noel. I don't consider the latter a huge downgrade, since they will be playing limited minutes in the playoffs with Giannis and Brook playing more.

Chris Paul hasn't been healthy in the playoffs for the last three years. He's got one foot off the cliff at this point, and the fall isn't going to be good.

[TD75]

I would definitely not wish to add Chris Paul in this Bucks team.

He is not good on defense to put it kindly and the Bucks really need to up their perimeter defense (especially in the playoffs).