Markelle Fultz

[Skybox]

Your basketball analysis is as good as your grammar, spelling and medical analysis.

But hey, you call me on my grammer, but can i ask you personal question since you have no problems going at me personally, how many laguages can you speek or at leats communicate with ?

4

Well, 1 plus 3 others to varying levels of ineptness, but that does not mean that I would embarrass myself writing in a forum in those languages.

you seem to have no problems embarrassing yourself here...critiquing a foreign fan's grammar is pretty weak, friend

[AaronB]

But hey, you call me on my grammer, but can i ask you personal question since you have no problems going at me personally, how many laguages can you speek or at leats communicate with ?

4

Well, 1 plus 3 others to varying levels of ineptness, but that does not mean that I would embarrass myself writing in a forum in those languages.

you seem to have no problems embarrassing yourself here...critiquing a foreign fan's grammar is pretty weak, friend

Would not have said a word if he had not pretended to know the slightest bit about MF's medical condition.

Both yours and his laughably bad statistical analysis I almost always let pass. You would also do well to read Silver's book.

But as soon as someone starts to pass negative medical judgements with zero information, then all bets are off.

If that position is an embarrassment, then so be it.

[AaronB]

Debate all day about stats and opinions, let's not take personal shots at grammar or spelling mistakes or anything - that constitutes as a personal attack and this is a warning to everybody on the forum moving forward. Tons of posters are from overseas and RealGM nor does sportsfandom require any sort of mastering of English.

My point was never the grammar nor the spelling.

It was clearly about the implication of MF's medical condition being something other than a serious medical event.

[yoyojw17]

If he becomes as good as his biggest fans here predict he'd probably walk next summer since he'd be unrestricted free agent. Still think we should have extended or traded him this summer.

He only became available for an extension 1 week ago. lol.... there's still more than enough time. I think they timed the extensions so they have more than enough time to evaluate in training camp at least.

[pepe1991]

This is hilarious. I think my English is good enough to strike your nerves and get you angry because i said something negative about athlete you never met in your life.

As for his mommy issues, bike accident etc, those were all rumors & stories that were never confirmed to be true. But also never disproven.
Much like his TOS.

At the end of a day he is below average starter who is instructed by his agent to pull all the strings in right way to land massive contract exstension. Hence, exit interview, haircut, adding 3 Magic related posts on instagram after having 0 in five years etc.

It's just up to you will you buy in timeline and think all this is just coincidence or be sceptial and judge him based in what he did in past six years, not what he is saying in past months.

[Audi]

As for his mommy issues, bike accident etc, those were all rumors & stories that were never confirmed to be true. But also never disproven.
Much like his TOS.

Imagine thinking internet rumors are “much like” a diagnosis by a medical professional.

At the end of a day he is below average starter who is instructed by his agent to pull all the strings in right way to land massive contract exstension. Hence, exit interview, haircut, adding 3 Magic related posts on instagram after having 0 in five years etc.

It's just up to you will you buy in timeline and think all this is just coincidence or be sceptial and judge him based in what he did in past six years, not what he is saying in past months.

So basically you’ve just rehashed your old nonsense about his mom controlling him in an elaborate fake injury scheme but now replaced her with his agent. Brilliant!

[cedric76]

Please could you stop quoting pepe, I Ve put him on my foe list but keep seeing his posts when you do quote him

Thx

[pepe1991]

As for his mommy issues, bike accident etc, those were all rumors & stories that were never confirmed to be true. But also never disproven.
Much like his TOS.

Imagine thinking internet rumors are “much like” a diagnosis by a medical professional.

At the end of a day he is below average starter who is instructed by his agent to pull all the strings in right way to land massive contract exstension. Hence, exit interview, haircut, adding 3 Magic related posts on instagram after having 0 in five years etc.

It's just up to you will you buy in timeline and think all this is just coincidence or be sceptial and judge him based in what he did in past six years, not what he is saying in past months.

So basically you’ve just rehashed your old nonsense about his mom controlling him in an elaborate fake injury scheme but now replaced her with his agent. Brilliant!

No, no no and simply no.
You confuse your personal feelings with facts.

Markelle's mom crazy behavior is well documented and confirmed. This is not "my" take on it.

You have Washington's post article just about it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/14/no-draft-pick-basketballs-biggest-enigma-no-one-knows-whats-up-with-markelle-fultz/

You have The Athletic who confirm that his mother attacked Drew Henlen and caused Henlan to walk away from working with Fultz.

https://theathletic.com/669684/2018/11/21/markelle-fultz-dealing-with-wrist-issue-on-top-of-shoulder-woes-sources-say-he-would-prefer-a-move-to-new-team/

Those are not internet rumors, nor reddit BS, those are stories confirmed by multiple people.

You even have interview with his former coach and close family friend, Keith Williams, who worked & knew Fultz since Fultz was 7 years old, and he confirmed he no longer talks with Fultz mom.

Cameras installed in his home to monitor him was also something that Washington post reported. Not "internet rumors".

So basically you’ve just rehashed your old nonsense about his mom controlling him in an elaborate fake injury scheme but now replaced her with his agent.

This has nothing to do with above. Above, you can try to call this all "rumors" (despite mountain of evidence, multiple sources, multiple outlets, multiple eyewitnesses etc) but this is where you are simply naive.
Professional players have agents, who make portion of their players salary. It's in their best interest to position player to get most money, because more player makes, more agent gets.

Things like cutting hair, handling social metia etc, it's all PR stuff. It's like Elfrid Payton cutting hair right after year 4. What a coincidence. Contract year. Month before free agency Shocking

Hell, Larry Sanders menaged to stay off weed only one year in his career, contract year. Shocking coincidence.



I don't know what execlly you need as "proof" ? To his agent to call you on your phone and tell you that they are working on his big contract? Like, dude, it's obvious. only fool wouldn't do it. Guy has millions to gain or lose. Pulling right strinks & covering ground is execlly what agents have to do. That's their job.

[pepe1991]

and non of this matters. Only thing that matters is simple question: Do you belive Fultz is nba starter or not.

My opinion is that he isn't and that he puts clear, low ceiling on this team as he can't do things modern PG has to do. And everything else is irrelevant.

You are entitled for different opinion. Future will show who was right or wrong.

[Skybox]

Does anyone else want to share realistic guidelines and expectations for Fultz to get paid? I’m curious. Many here (including me) think his improvement has been significant- but not yet sufficient for him to be paid and retained as our PG of the future. Some, apparently, are happy with him just the way he is. Some don’t think there’s a scenario where he gets the contract and, I guess, he’s only starting to build trade value.

This isn’t just a fanboy yes or no situation with Fultz, imo…there are specific needs for this team’s makeup and (other) guys that the team must be built around.

[Knightro]

Does anyone else want to share realistic guidelines and expectations for Fultz to get paid? I’m curious. Many here (including me) think his improvement has been significant- but not yet sufficient for him to be paid and retained as our PG of the future. Some, apparently, are happy with him just the way he is. Some don’t think there’s a scenario where he gets the contract and, I guess, he’s only starting to build trade value.

This isn’t just a fanboy yes or no situation with Fultz, imo…there are specific needs for this team’s makeup and (other) guys that the team must be built around.

I expect Markelle Fultz will get a new contract from the Magic if he simply replicates last season.

I don’t believe he has to show *any* improvement - volume or accuracy - from 3PT or a volume increase from the free throw line to get this new deal.

I would anticipate something in the $25M per season range.

Now we can debate until we’re all blue in the face whether or not that’s a good idea - how he fits with the other players, if he’s worthy of a contract that size, etc.

But if this season goes like many expect, around or slightly above .500, Markelle will be retained.

[bigdogdylan5]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

[I Rasharted]

Doing my part to get the Markelle Fultz thread to 100 pages.

[VFX]

Does anyone else want to share realistic guidelines and expectations for Fultz to get paid? I’m curious. Many here (including me) think his improvement has been significant- but not yet sufficient for him to be paid and retained as our PG of the future. Some, apparently, are happy with him just the way he is. Some don’t think there’s a scenario where he gets the contract and, I guess, he’s only starting to build trade value.

This isn’t just a fanboy yes or no situation with Fultz, imo…there are specific needs for this team’s makeup and (other) guys that the team must be built around.

I expect Markelle Fultz will get a new contract from the Magic if he simply replicates last season.

I don’t believe he has to show *any* improvement - volume or accuracy - from 3PT or a volume increase from the free throw line to get this new deal.

I would anticipate something in the $25M per season range.

Now we can debate until we’re all blue in the face whether or not that’s a good idea - how he fits with the other players, if he’s worthy of a contract that size, etc.

But if this season goes like many expect, around or slightly above .500, Markelle will be retained.

I’ll go a step further…

He will be retained regardless of whatever he does this season because his value is minimal on an expiring contract. The correct time to trade him was to a playoff team in the middle of last season. The only thing that is up in the air is the cost of the contract, which will probably be $20-30m based on what he shows this season.

His agent knows this, which is what explains the uptick in social media, haircut, talking openly about working on his non-existent shot, etc.

[Knightro]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

Expectations matter.

I think a lot of people who take the anti-Fultz side of things see this organization is on the precipice of a potentially sustained run of high end success and they don't want to mess it up before it even gets started.

If this was just a tank ball situation and none of it mattered, people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do.

But the Magic genuinely have a chance to do some good things over the next few seasons and it's not the time to get sentimental about nice players and stories who aren't necessarily the right player to maximize what they want to do.

[Skybox]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

Expectations matter.

I think a lot of people who take the anti-Fultz side of things see this organization is on the precipice of a potentially sustained run of high end success and they don't want to mess it up before it even gets started.

If this was just a tank ball situation and none of it mattered, people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do.

But the Magic genuinely have a chance to do some good things over the next few seasons and it's not the time to get sentimental about nice players and stories who aren't necessarily the right player to maximize what they want to do.

THIS is where I'm at...and I'm willing to give him the opportunity to prove his worth. As a former #1 pick, he's been to the mountaintop...but, I'm (because of the opportunity for ORL, compounded by the contract status and pending maxes) running out of time. As far as the "heated emotional" nature of this thread...I'll say again, I'm seeing consistent specific concerns listed by "anti" usually answered with "why the HATE?" general, meaningless, loyalist counters.

Is it debatable that Franz and Paolo are the focus of our growth (among our current roster)? NO

Is it debatable that outside shooting from the backcourt would be the #1 thing that would enhance their skill sets and point them towards All-Star status? NO

Is it debatable that paying a PG $20m plus on a new deal is, basically, marrying him? NOT REALLY
(it's not a given that you can trade that given his injury history and lack of desired skills-maybe, but far from certain)

He's a pretty good player with potential to be really good, but as he currently plays - he's not a good fit here. I don't even like the idea that it's "anti"...people here making it personal and emotional when they don't like the facts.

[bigdogdylan5]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

Expectations matter.

I think a lot of people who take the anti-Fultz side of things see this organization is on the precipice of a potentially sustained run of high end success and they don't want to mess it up before it even gets started.

If this was just a tank ball situation and none of it mattered, people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do.

But the Magic genuinely have a chance to do some good things over the next few seasons and it's not the time to get sentimental about nice players and stories who aren't necessarily the right player to maximize what they want to do.

Yes but they haven’t extended him yet and everyone is assuming we will just sign him to a crazy number. The front office MO has been to sign players to these very team friendly deals that decrease and are tradeable. Yes if we’re maxing out Fultz baring some miraculous 3 point resurgence (not expecting it) that is dumb. But I want to see how this year goes and I think that is the Magic’s plan. It’s all fine and dandy to say Fultz doesn’t maximize Franz and Paolo but to be fair they are the stars and will be paid like it so they need to improve too. I just believe counter to others that there was not a good enough upgrade this summer to warrant them moving off Fultz. Let’s see how this year goes. I think that will provide a lot of clarity.

[bigdogdylan5]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

Expectations matter.

I think a lot of people who take the anti-Fultz side of things see this organization is on the precipice of a potentially sustained run of high end success and they don't want to mess it up before it even gets started.

If this was just a tank ball situation and none of it mattered, people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do.

But the Magic genuinely have a chance to do some good things over the next few seasons and it's not the time to get sentimental about nice players and stories who aren't necessarily the right player to maximize what they want to do.

THIS is where I'm at...and I'm willing to give him the opportunity to prove his worth. As a former #1 pick, he's been to the mountaintop...but, I'm (because of the opportunity for ORL, compounded by the contract status and pending maxes) running out of time. As far as the "heated emotional" nature of this thread...I'll say again, I'm seeing consistent specific concerns listed by "anti" usually answered with "why the HATE?" general, meaningless, loyalist counters.

Is it debatable that Franz and Paolo are the focus of our growth (among our current roster)? NO

Is it debatable that outside shooting from the backcourt would be the #1 thing that would enhance their skill sets and point them towards All-Star status? NO

Is it debatable that paying a PG $20m plus on a new deal is, basically, marrying him? NOT REALLY
(it's not a given that you can trade that given his injury history and lack of desired skills-maybe, but far from certain)

He's a pretty good player with potential to be really good, but as he currently plays - he's not a good fit here. I don't even like the idea that it's "anti"...people here making it personal and emotional when they don't like the facts.

I think even the most pro Fultz posters would acknowledge that he is not good enough yet and is not a seemless fit. Again though in my opinion there was and is not a slam dunk attractive option at this moment to get us to move off Fultz. I think we will end up paying one of Fultz or Anthony and it will be the one that wants the most reasonable contract if nothing more then having salary of value to make a trade for an elite guard. Which I think some forget about. You aren’t trading Franz or Paolo so you need that third guy that has value with a 20-25 million dollar contract to work a trade.

[VFX]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

Expectations matter.

I think a lot of people who take the anti-Fultz side of things see this organization is on the precipice of a potentially sustained run of high end success and they don't want to mess it up before it even gets started.

If this was just a tank ball situation and none of it mattered, people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do.

But the Magic genuinely have a chance to do some good things over the next few seasons and it's not the time to get sentimental about nice players and stories who aren't necessarily the right player to maximize what they want to do.

THIS is where I'm at...and I'm willing to give him the opportunity to prove his worth. As a former #1 pick, he's been to the mountaintop...but, I'm (because of the opportunity for ORL, compounded by the contract status and pending maxes) running out of time. As far as the "heated emotional" nature of this thread...I'll say again, I'm seeing consistent specific concerns listed by "anti" usually answered with "why the HATE?" general, meaningless, loyalist counters.

Is it debatable that Franz and Paolo are the focus of our growth (among our current roster)? NO

Is it debatable that outside shooting from the backcourt would be the #1 thing that would enhance their skill sets and point them towards All-Star status? NO

Is it debatable that paying a PG $20m plus on a new deal is, basically, marrying him? NOT REALLY
(it's not a given that you can trade that given his injury history and lack of desired skills-maybe, but far from certain)

He's a pretty good player with potential to be really good, but as he currently plays - he's not a good fit here. I don't even like the idea that it's "anti"...people here making it personal and emotional when they don't like the facts.

The issue comes down to his body of work, skill set, price point, and the roster construction.

None of those things are positive to me and people are being extremely disingenuous if they think the last year of his deal, in his contract year, is going to be the selling point to all of those concerns. It won’t change anything.

Now, if you want to argue that his cost is “the going rate”, then fine. The problem is that I’d much rather have other options to pair with Paolo and Franz for the foreseeable future if they are shelling out a chunk of cap space on a point guard AFTER using a top lotto pick on one.

We’ve seen Boston (built similarly) shuffle a backcourt around to accommodate their now expensive core with whatever available options they can. They are maxed out of moves now unless they trade Brown. I’d rather Orlando just find the right fit rather than just “settle” and “wait and see” until they are forced to make a low yield trade or better yet, watch the inevitable lack of floor spacing and stagnant offense take place for the next 4 years because people wanted to “wait and see” and like a feel good story.

As I’ve stated, the timeframe has already passed on a legitimate move. Anything otherwise is bad return. It’s not happening. It’s about cost now and people either get this or don’t.

And no... I don't think Markelle Fultz should be potentially Orlando's third highest paid player in 3 seasons if we are being serious about contending for anything.

[Bergmaniac]

So I have a question has there ever been a magic player that the debate always gets this heated? I mean we have had players that were pretty universally hated Duhon and Big Baby (except for that one guy trolling before it was cool) but haven’t seen a debate where one side really thinks the guy is very good and the other side would trade him for literally anything. Don’t we think the truth might be somewhere in the middle. I think it’s clear the Magic want to see one more season. Let’s go and see where the cards fall.

The Fultz threads are nowhere near as heated as the Vucecic or Fournier ones used to be.