Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

mohammed10 · Post #1441 » by **mohammed10** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:18 pm

DCZards wrote:
fishercob wrote:Come on guys, we need to get this up to 100 pages (and locked) before the draft.

Shall we talk poker theory?

Ben Gordon?

Okafor's course load at UConn?

Let's go, ladies!

Yeah, "locked" is the key word. Time to move on.

Nonsense! I am pushing for a Part II of this thread!

closg00 · Post #1442 » by **closg00** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:55 pm

Bickerstaff wrote:
closg00 wrote:Ernie on waiting.

Grunfeld said. "A lot of times what happens, when you wait on situations, the other team might get better offers along the way. Then the trade might go away. We felt good about this."

This is what Ernie said when he made the Foye/Miller trade. Ernie would rather secure a trade early, rather than trying to deal later. Ernie has a pattern of doing this, often ending with him on the losing-end of the trade.

First, find the quote where Ernie said that after the Foye/Miller trade. I don't doubt he might have said something like that, but I also don't really trust your memory. Second, find some other examples of Ernie trading too early (and make sure to find several with him coming out on the losing end). Just saying something is a pattern doesn't make it so.

Since this thread is about to be locked, I will reply in the Fire Grunfeld thread

mohammed10 · Post #1443 » by **mohammed10** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:03 pm

closg00 wrote:
Since this thread is about to be locked, I will reply in the Fire Grunfeld thread

Locked? LOCKED? (in my best Jim Mora 'Playoffs' tone) Bah humbug!

BruceO · Post #1444 » by **BruceO** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:28 pm

Erm eka what's an ochre for?

Nimeona niongeze vitu za ujinga pia ili tufike ukurasa la Mia Kabla draft ifanyike

Illuminaire · Post #1445 » by **Illuminaire** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:46 pm

We can't lock this thread until the trade deadline of the coming season. After all, us "trade haters" are going to bring up every single NBA roster move involving cap space from now until then.

tontoz · Post #1446 » by **tontoz** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:48 pm

I was watching a poker tournament one time and it was down to maybe 5 guys. Two of them are all in set over set. The guy with the lower set hit his one outer to win.

That's gotta hurt.

BruceO · Post #1447 » by **BruceO** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:00 pm

Playing poker on Facebook now as we speak. Irritating donkeys keep calling high bets just because their cards are suited. Now I know how Phil hellmuth feels...mostly because I am Phil hellmuth. And some of you may say you also know how Phil hellmuth feels...but that's because you probably used to offer him massages with happy endings and in return he'd give you a poker tip..which is a euphemism for the end of his p....

VictorPage44 · Post #1448 » by **VictorPage44** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:03 am

stupid trade! No Shooters!

...o we were letting this die? My bad.

verbal8 · Post #1449 » by **verbal8** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 5:35 pm

I think I found a move I would have liked better. Buying out Rashard Lewis' and putting the cap space toward an amnesty bid on Brand would have been my preferred move. Okafor is a better rebounder and defender, but Brand is a lot better offensively. I also think he helps with offensive spacing, where Okafor is a liability.

It is true there would still be a hole at SF, but that potentially could be addressed with the MLE.

TGW · Post #1450 » by **TGW** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 5:44 pm

verbal8 wrote:I think I found a move I would have liked better. Buying out Rashard Lewis' and putting the cap space toward an amnesty bid on Brand would have been my preferred move. Okafor is a better rebounder and defender, but Brand is a lot better offensively. I also think he helps with offensive spacing, where Okafor is a liability.

It is true there would still be a hole at SF, but that potentially could be addressed with the MLE.

I would have done this as well, and just to get the record straight, we still have a hole at SF. Ariza is hardly an answer to our problems at that position.

Brand and Okafor, at this stage in their careers, are pretty much comparable. I don't think Okafor is nearly the defender some think he is...at this point he's relying more on reputation than actual production.

Post #1451 » by **nate33** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 5:56 pm

verbal8 wrote:I think I found a move I would have liked better. Buying out Rashard Lewis' and putting the cap space toward an amnesty bid on Brand would have been my preferred move. Okafor is a better rebounder and defender, but Brand is a lot better offensively. I also think he helps with offensive spacing, where Okafor is a liability.

It is true there would still be a hole at SF, but that potentially could be addressed with the MLE.

We would have needed to renounce the MLE to have the cap room to sign Brand. There wouldn't have anything left to address the SF position.

I think the Okafor/Ariza move is definitely better than the buy-out Lewis and sign Brand move. Brand is 33. Okafor is just 29. I think Okafor is currently a better player.

Post #1452 » by **W. Unseld** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 7:19 pm

Check out bulletsforever for more trade perspective & thoughts on cap space value

Post #1453 » by **LyricalRico** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 10:57 pm

^ Thanks, Wes. Very good read. Folks everywhere are coming around on this trade, as I was sure they would once the offseason unfolded. And we're just a week in! Let's see what else happens.

7-Day Dray · Post #1454 » by **7-Day Dray** » Sat Jul 7, 2012 11:49 pm

I'm still not high on the trade.

And on the BF article, I know get what Prada is saying, but again, you NEVER let a player dictate how you run a team, especially a player as unproven (not that Prada was saying that). Orlando letting Dwight Howard become player-GM is basically what ruined their team. GMs should always build for the long-term.

Post #1455 » by **LyricalRico** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 1:12 am

^ Maybe we're reading different posts. I was talking about this one:

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/7/6/ ... rsus-panic

JonathanJoseph · Post #1456 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 4:53 am

nate33 wrote:
verbal8 wrote:I think I found a move I would have liked better. Buying out Rashard Lewis' and putting the cap space toward an amnesty bid on Brand would have been my preferred move. Okafor is a better rebounder and defender, but Brand is a lot better offensively. I also think he helps with offensive spacing, where Okafor is a liability.

It is true there would still be a hole at SF, but that potentially could be addressed with the MLE.

We would have needed to renounce the MLE to have the cap room to sign Brand. There wouldn't have anything left to address the SF position.

I think the Okafor/Ariza move is definitely better than the buy-out Lewis and sign Brand move. Brand is 33. Okafor is just 29. I think Okafor is currently a better player.

If Okafor is better than Brand then the Wiz are a shoe-in playoff team. Brand did have an 18.0 PER last year. If Okafor is better and he might be the 3rd best big with Nene and Seraphin the Wizards are absolutely loaded in the post.

Post #1457 » by **nate33** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 12:02 pm

You overrate Brand. If he was the third best big in the East, Philly wouldn't have amnestied him. Surely they could have traded him.

verbal8 · Post #1458 » by **verbal8** » Sun Jul 8, 2012 12:30 pm

nate33 wrote:You overrate Brand. If he was the third best big in the East, Philly wouldn't have amnestied him. Surely they could have traded him.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Brand is the 3rd best big in the East. I see him as an average PF starter at this point. If you look at the teams in the East he generally is better than the non-playoff teams he is generally better than their PF, however most of the play-off teams have a better starter.

I don't think Okafor is enough better to justify the increased cost and decreased flexibility.

leswizards · Post #1459 » by **leswizards** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 10:21 am

Now that the Hornets have used their cap space to do a sign and trade with Orlando for Ryan, I think I now officially hate this trade.

Post #1460 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jul 9, 2012 10:59 am

leswizards wrote:Now that the Hornets have used their cap space to do a sign and trade with Orlando for Ryan, I think I now officially hate this trade.

Yup. And the Nets are working on a trade for Dwight Howard that they couldn't do unless they had cap space (not saying the Wiz could have made that trade - but it points to the value of cap space).