2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[getrichordie]

Just a garbage deal for OKC. They are winning right now. Why are they taking this huge of a gamble? The shot distribution is nice as is so why are we getting rid of the ultimate dirty work dude in Adams for Beal? Getrich I respect your right to post on this board but I don't think I've ever liked one of your trade proposals and there's 0 chance I'd ever include Adams in a trade for Beal. Let alone Adams/Diallo/FRP/SRP for Beal + trash.

Damn, bro. Appreciate the honesty. I respect your opinion.

I think one thing you aren’t taking into consideration is that ownership is probably wanting to reduce that tax bill.

Also, Beal helps our offense out tremendously (something a lot of fans are concerned about) and would help extend Westbrook’s career.

And WCS and Giles are trash?


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There's no guarantee Beal helps this team's offense. He's a better floor spacer/ball handler than everyone in our 2 guard rotation but he also needs the ball to be effective/maximized. He's not Klay Thompson. Who's to say our offense won't sputter and RW gets in his own head about who needs touches? What happens to our offense when we take away potentially the best screen setter in the game? What happens to our defense when we take away Adams?

WCS is an empty stats player. Worse awareness on defense than Ayton. Doesn't box out. Doesn't communicate. Loves to take long 2s. Giles is a decent passer but will be lucky to have a long term role as a backup considering his injury history and the fact that he doesn't have a size or quickness advantage at the 5.

Beal does not need the ball in his hands to score, man. What makes you say that?

He would be perfect for our offense. We would run him off of screens all day long or let him get into the paint and kick it to a George or Grant in the corner while teams worry about the lob threat in WCS. Furthermore, Beal played for Donovan IIRC. So he knows the offense.

Also, Giles is more 4 than 5 but he’s a guy who I think would look great as a small ball 5.

And as far as WCS putting up empty stats, I couldn’t disagree more. Dude can play and he has heart. He has played really well for SAC this year. He was giving Adams problems when we were playing them because he’s so fast and he has a nice little flip shot just like Adams.

Go watch a Kings game or at least check out their highlights.

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[ThunderBolt]

WCS has been better this year. I dont know that I want him as my starting center unless you’re loaded at all of the other positions but he’s not been a negative impact player this year.

[bondom34]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/willie-cauley-stein-made-it-clear-kings-media-day-im-ready-get-paid

Every once in a while, though, you hear something decidedly unique that stands out and becomes worthy of writing.

On Monday afternoon, Willie Cauley-Stein sat in the hot seat and bared his soul. In midseason form, the fourth-year center said exactly what was on his mind.

“I’m ready to get paid,” Cauley-Stein told NBC Sports California. “This is what we’ve got to do, that’s what type of focus I’m on.

“I’m ready for it. I’ve seen everybody else -- all my peers. All right, I’m ready for that. What do I got to do to do that? That’s what they’re doing? All right, I’m going to go ahead and do this now. I was doing it this way, obviously it wasn’t working, so now let's do it this way.”

That's what you swap for Adams. And Beal's touches would be way down.

[Pillendreher]

So has there been some crow eaten about Donovan?

He's the same as he's always been. No schemes have changed.

That I disagree with. The defensive scheme has changed. And I'd say the offensive approach has changed as well.

[bondom34]

So has there been some crow eaten about Donovan?

He's the same as he's always been. No schemes have changed.

That I disagree with. The defensive scheme has changed. And I'd say the offensive approach has changed as well.

I don't see it on defense and the offense is as always, they don't pass, they just have a mini Westbrook running the bench now. The defense got rid of Melo.

[wco81]

So has there been some crow eaten about Donovan?

He's the same as he's always been. No schemes have changed.

But you have to give some credit for results?

And he has to get some credit for the defensive performance without Roberson? He's the one playing the lineups with players like Ferguson and Diallo. Those young players along with Grant have shown development, no?

[slick_watts]

i just think we're seriously overpaying for beal when we can get effectively the same productivity at half or 3/4 the price with a guy who can make threes and may not have the same sort of ball skills. how much handling is beal doing in okc with westbrook, george and schroder? in the lineups those three play together one of the three is marginalized as is. this is why even in a vacuum i'd prefer porter over beal, there's diminishing returns to the impact adding additional playmakers has to a team that already has a 30+ usage westbrook + george and now schroder.

i'd really consider a trade for beal centered (heh) around adams but i think that trade puts you in a position where you need to trade schroder and then you're punting this season more or less until you can do that. then what happens next year with the tax? in your trade you solve this with wcs. cauly-stein is going to be rfa. so really we're swapping adams salary slot with beal and adding another 15-20 mil guy in WCS on top? doesn't seem realistic.

trading adams for beal while also getting a low cost center is a sequence to consider but this isn't it.

i'd focus on smaller deals. i like the patterson for bellinelli idea. if sam can trade schroder for a better fit on an expiring i'd be on that as well. it's just real hard to move around big money for the thunder because of the tax implications it creates. and giving up ANOTHER 1st round pick, which is going to be in what? 2023? is a complete non starter.

[slick_watts]

So has there been some crow eaten about Donovan?

He's the same as he's always been. No schemes have changed.

But you have to give some credit for results?

And he has to get some credit for the defensive performance without Roberson? He's the one playing the lineups with players like Ferguson and Diallo. Those young players along with Grant have shown development, no?

if it holds then yes of course donovan deserves credit for this.

[bondom34]

So has there been some crow eaten about Donovan?

He's the same as he's always been. No schemes have changed.

But you have to give some credit for results?

And he has to get some credit for the defensive performance without Roberson? He's the one playing the lineups with players like Ferguson and Diallo. Those young players along with Grant have shown development, no?

Grant has. Diallo's a rookie, so he hasn't really "developed", he came in looking good. The defense without Roberson right now is amazing, but I'm not seeing schematic differences (and they replaced their defensive assistant) and replaced Melo with Grant. They've also played the Suns 3 times, Knicks, Cavs, and a few others.

He hasn't been actively destructive but hasn't improved. He just hasn't really had the chance to screw up rotations because guys are hurt.

[bondom34]

i just think we're seriously overpaying for beal when we can get effectively the same productivity at half or 3/4 the price with a guy who can make threes and may not have the same sort of ball skills. how much handling is beal doing in okc with westbrook, george and schroder? in the lineups those three play together one of the three is marginalized as is. this is why even in a vacuum i'd prefer porter over beal, there's diminishing returns to the impact adding additional playmakers has to a team that already has a 30+ usage westbrook + george and now schroder.

i'd really consider a trade for beal centered (heh) around adams but i think that trade puts you in a position where you need to trade schroder and then you're punting this season more or less until you can do that. then what happens next year with the tax? in your trade you solve this with wcs. cauly-stein is going to be rfa. so really we're swapping adams salary slot with beal and adding another 15-20 mil guy in WCS on top? doesn't seem realistic.

trading adams for beal while also getting a low cost center is a sequence to consider but this isn't it.

i'd focus on smaller deals. i like the patterson for bellinelli idea. if sam can trade schroder for a better fit on an expiring i'd be on that as well. it's just real hard to move around big money for the thunder because of the tax implications it creates. and giving up ANOTHER 1st round pick, which is going to be in what? 2023? is a complete non starter.

I'd look to this in the offseason at the latest, but if Orlando really wanted a PG, maybe Schroder/Ferguson for Augustin/Ross?

Frees up money next year, gets a shooter and a backup at half the price.

[slick_watts]

I'd look to this in the offseason at the latest, but if Orlando really wanted a PG, maybe Schroder/Ferguson for Augustin/Ross?

Frees up money next year, gets a shooter and a backup at half the price.

yes something around schroder for ross would be nice. ross and ariza are really the two guys i'm thinking of for this.

[retrobro90]

Damn, bro. Appreciate the honesty. I respect your opinion.

I think one thing you aren’t taking into consideration is that ownership is probably wanting to reduce that tax bill.

Also, Beal helps our offense out tremendously (something a lot of fans are concerned about) and would help extend Westbrook’s career.

And WCS and Giles are trash?


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There's no guarantee Beal helps this team's offense. He's a better floor spacer/ball handler than everyone in our 2 guard rotation but he also needs the ball to be effective/maximized. He's not Klay Thompson. Who's to say our offense won't sputter and RW gets in his own head about who needs touches? What happens to our offense when we take away potentially the best screen setter in the game? What happens to our defense when we take away Adams?

WCS is an empty stats player. Worse awareness on defense than Ayton. Doesn't box out. Doesn't communicate. Loves to take long 2s. Giles is a decent passer but will be lucky to have a long term role as a backup considering his injury history and the fact that he doesn't have a size or quickness advantage at the 5.

Beal does not need the ball in his hands to score, man. What makes you say that?

He would be perfect for our offense. We would run him off of screens all day long or let him get into the paint and kick it to a George or Grant in the corner while teams worry about the lob threat in WCS. Furthermore, Beal played for Donovan IIRC. So he knows the offense.

Also, Giles is more 4 than 5 but he’s a guy who I think would look great as a small ball 5.

And as far as WCS putting up empty stats, I couldn’t disagree more. Dude can play and he has heart. He has played really well for SAC this year. He was giving Adams problems when we were playing them because he’s so fast and he has a nice little flip shot just like Adams.

Go watch a Kings game or at least check out their highlights.

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Beal needs the ball to be maximized. Clearly he can spot up and cut as well but that's not why you bring in Bradley Beal. Also, around screens? Who actually sets real picks on this roster without Steven? WCS slips every time. Giles is whole-heartedly not a 4. He's a plodder. The Kings play him next to WCS because WCS is mobile and does a better job guarding one on one on the perimeter than he does fighting for position in the paint.

WCS does not give Adams problems lmao. We play Adams high in PnR coverage and if Willy dives hard off the slip before OKC help can get there then yes he gets to dunk. Bravo. If Willy and Adams battle in the paint there is no contest. Adams wins 100% of that matchup.

You should probably go watch a Kings game and not just highlights.

[retrobro90]

Donovan deserves a little credit for the quick turn around we've had after our 0-4 start. The defense has changed dramatically. Everyone is clearly engaged. I was at the Nets game last night and the bench actually got heated at one another. Ferguson and Adams yelling at each other. Guys had to be broken up. It's clear everyone is playing with a lot of fire.

There's two big things I wish Donovan would do. One of which I don't believe is in his control (at least not entirely).

1. Stop letting our guys "play through adversity" every time the opposition makes a run. Sometimes a 16-2 run by the opposition could have been an 8-2 run with a more conservative TO

2. The only time we EVER see PG at the 4 is when guys are in foul trouble. This should be an obvious wrinkle to our gameplan and would clearly help this team since we've struggled with our spacing since day 1. Grant was in trouble last night. We rolled out a small lineup and wouldn't you know it we came back from 23 down. George probably has some reluctance about playing that position which is why I say this is probably out of Billy's control (at least a little).

[bondom34]

Donovan deserves a little credit for the quick turn around we've had after our 0-4 start. The defense has changed dramatically. Everyone is clearly engaged. I was at the Nets game last night and the bench actually got heated at one another. Ferguson and Adams yelling at each other. Guys had to be broken up. It's clear everyone is playing with a lot of fire.

There's two big things I wish Donovan would do. One of which I don't believe is in his control (at least not entirely).

1. Stop letting our guys "play through adversity" every time the opposition makes a run. Sometimes a 16-2 run by the opposition could have been an 8-2 run with a more conservative TO

2. The only time we EVER see PG at the 4 is when guys are in foul trouble. This should be an obvious wrinkle to our gameplan and would clearly help this team since we've struggled with our spacing since day 1. Grant was in trouble last night. We rolled out a small lineup and wouldn't you know it we came back from 23 down. George probably has some reluctance about playing that position which is why I say this is probably out of Billy's control (at least a little).

I'll second this. He deserves some credit. He's still a poor coach, he just hasn't actively destructed much. He hasn't actively been good much either.

[Old Man Game]

Haha right? Musta taken hours! You could make anyone look bad combing through years of quotes, especially slick watts

about 10 minutes.

my reply is timestamped 1 hour, 22 minutes after your post, so it couldn't have 'taken hours'. unless i traveled in time. which is far too dangerous for something like this.

But how did you do it so quickly? I ask because I've at times wanted to find old posts of my own to reference but I never want to take the time. Are you using a script or something? Does google find individual posts from a given username in a forum?

[Old Man Game]

Donovan deserves a little credit for the quick turn around we've had after our 0-4 start. The defense has changed dramatically. Everyone is clearly engaged. I was at the Nets game last night and the bench actually got heated at one another. Ferguson and Adams yelling at each other. Guys had to be broken up. It's clear everyone is playing with a lot of fire.

There's two big things I wish Donovan would do. One of which I don't believe is in his control (at least not entirely).

1. Stop letting our guys "play through adversity" every time the opposition makes a run. Sometimes a 16-2 run by the opposition could have been an 8-2 run with a more conservative TO

2. The only time we EVER see PG at the 4 is when guys are in foul trouble. This should be an obvious wrinkle to our gameplan and would clearly help this team since we've struggled with our spacing since day 1. Grant was in trouble last night. We rolled out a small lineup and wouldn't you know it we came back from 23 down. George probably has some reluctance about playing that position which is why I say this is probably out of Billy's control (at least a little).

I'll second this. He deserves some credit. He's still a poor coach, he just hasn't actively destructed much. He hasn't actively been good much either.

I'm 25% of the way to giving him more credit. I think he's done a better job of using substitutions and going away from a guy when the dude just can't play on a given night than he has in the past. That's the main sign of growth I've seen from him. But I want a whole season's worth before I change my overall assessment of him.

[Pillendreher]

Ferguson and Adams yelling at each other. Guys had to be broken up. It's clear everyone is playing with a lot of fire.

Were you able to read lips? I bet it was because Ferg called Adams "Aquaman" and Adams called Ferg "Turd Ferguson".

2. The only time we EVER see PG at the 4 is when guys are in foul trouble. This should be an obvious wrinkle to our gameplan and would clearly help this team since we've struggled with our spacing since day 1. Grant was in trouble last night. We rolled out a small lineup and wouldn't you know it we came back from 23 down. George probably has some reluctance about playing that position which is why I say this is probably out of Billy's control (at least a little).

I fear we lack the wings to play small that often. Who's the wing you're playing instead of George?

[bondom34]

Donovan deserves a little credit for the quick turn around we've had after our 0-4 start. The defense has changed dramatically. Everyone is clearly engaged. I was at the Nets game last night and the bench actually got heated at one another. Ferguson and Adams yelling at each other. Guys had to be broken up. It's clear everyone is playing with a lot of fire.

There's two big things I wish Donovan would do. One of which I don't believe is in his control (at least not entirely).

1. Stop letting our guys "play through adversity" every time the opposition makes a run. Sometimes a 16-2 run by the opposition could have been an 8-2 run with a more conservative TO

2. The only time we EVER see PG at the 4 is when guys are in foul trouble. This should be an obvious wrinkle to our gameplan and would clearly help this team since we've struggled with our spacing since day 1. Grant was in trouble last night. We rolled out a small lineup and wouldn't you know it we came back from 23 down. George probably has some reluctance about playing that position which is why I say this is probably out of Billy's control (at least a little).

I'll second this. He deserves some credit. He's still a poor coach, he just hasn't actively destructed much. He hasn't actively been good much either.

I'm 25% of the way to giving him more credit. I think he's done a better job of using substitutions and going away from a guy when the dude just can't play on a given night than he has in the past. That's the main sign of growth I've seen from him. But I want a whole season's worth before I change my overall assessment of him.

Pretty much. Having a long history of being bad and being hamstrung in many ways with rotations by injury hasn't convinced me much.

[slick_watts]

I'll second this. He deserves some credit. He's still a poor coach, he just hasn't actively destructed much. He hasn't actively been good much either.

I'm 25% of the way to giving him more credit. I think he's done a better job of using substitutions and going away from a guy when the dude just can't play on a given night than he has in the past. That's the main sign of growth I've seen from him. But I want a whole season's worth before I change my overall assessment of him.

Pretty much. Having a long history of being bad and being hamstrung in many ways with rotations by injury hasn't convinced me much.

so how long until he would convince you that he improved? three seasons doesn't seem like a long history to me especially considering our roster turnover. there are coaches like terry stotts who take over a decade before they are considered decent.

[bondom34]

I'm 25% of the way to giving him more credit. I think he's done a better job of using substitutions and going away from a guy when the dude just can't play on a given night than he has in the past. That's the main sign of growth I've seen from him. But I want a whole season's worth before I change my overall assessment of him.

Pretty much. Having a long history of being bad and being hamstrung in many ways with rotations by injury hasn't convinced me much.

so how long until he would convince you that he improved? three seasons doesn't seem like a long history to me especially considering our roster turnover. there are coaches like terry stotts who take over a decade before they are considered decent.

Three seasons is quite a while when you have at least one top 8 player if not 2 in every season.

And Stotts made the playoffs and won 1 fewer game in his second season than Donovan did with Westbrook and Durant.

It would be at a minimum this entire season, and they'd have to considerably (I know that's sort of vague but I don't know exactly what it would be) overperform expectations. Which were somewhere in the upper 40s in wins and second round.