Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Killboard]

I think right now kings aren’t even offering haliburton.

It's Hield+Hali+Bagley percieved as more value than Beasley+McDaniels+Reid?

Yes, and it’s not close.

Not sure if you have watched McDaniels enough.

[Wolveswin]

To Cavs: Beverley + 2x Wolves 2nds

To 76ers: McDaniels + Rubio + Beasley + 2x Wolves 1sts + 3x Wolves 1st Swaps

To Wolves: Simmons + Maxey + Joe

76ers::
Embiid
Harris
Green | McDaniels
Beasley | Thybulle
Rubio | Curry

Wolves::
Towns
Simmons
Prince | Edwards
Edwards | Okogie
Russell | Maxey

[BoogieTime]

The swaps going to Philly are interesting. Usually the swaps involve a rebuilding team forfeiting a major talent.

For a worse team like the Wolves or Kings, those swaps could be huge.

I'd probably only feel comfortable with a combo of 3 picks/swaps depending on the package

[JRoy]

It's Hield+Hali+Bagley percieved as more value than Beasley+McDaniels+Reid?

Yes, and it’s not close.

Not sure if you have watched McDaniels enough.

Haven’t seen much of McD, but Halliburton is a terrific young player.

[kuclas]

I wonder if Washington could jump into all of this.

Washington trades: Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, Daniel Gafford, Kentavious Caldwell Pope, Kyle Kuzma, picks
Washington receives: Ben Simmons
Get a true star player who matches well with Beal.

Philadelphia trades: Ben Simmons
Philadelphia receives: Derrick White, Kentavious Caldwell Pope, Lonnie Walker, Daniel Gafford, picks
Get a bunch of depth + a really underrated player in White and picks (don't know what these need to be to fill the gap).

San Antonio trades: Derrick White, Lonnie Walker
San Antonio receives: Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, Kyle Kuzma
Move White to clear a bit of the backcourt logjam and get some young frontcourt players.

I actually don't think this deal is horrible depending on the draft pick compensation. Derrick White is a great player, his health is just a major concern. Lonnie Walker is an upside play, and Daniel Gafford is one of the most underrated players itl. It's not a sexy deal, but I'd do this trade over one for a capped our near 30 year type of player that isn't a superstar.

An Embiid lead team can keep
The Sixers in any playoff game until the last 3 minutes by himself.

The issues with Sixers start and end in the final 120 seconds of almost all of their playoff losses. Look at all their playoff losses the last 4 post seasons.

Sixers have an issue with no secondary iso player besides Embiid. Ans Embiid is tiring. Really Jimmy butler didn’t even solve the problem. Game 7 of raptors series. Sixers had 3 straight possession in tie game with 3 min left to take lead or tie and all three horrible possessions.

So not sure what else can be done. Simmons being non factor offensively doesn’t help either. Simmons is fantastic the first 30 minutes of games. Trae young shot horribly the entire series but all people is hawks won and young made some shots. Clint capela shot equally horrible 33% from free throw line and looked shook at times bricking shot but people give him a pass cause hawks won the series.

People will see what they see. What the series. What how many shots capela bricked point blank. What him at the free throw line. Look at his eyes. He didn’t want to be on that free throw line either. Sixers should have hacked a capela and won the series.

[kuclas]

To Cavs: Beverley + 2x Wolves 2nds

To 76ers: McDaniels + Rubio + Beasley + 2x Wolves 1sts + 3x Wolves 1st Swaps

To Wolves: Simmons + Maxey + Joe

76ers::
Embiid
Harris
Green | McDaniels
Beasley | Thybulle
Rubio | Curry

Wolves::
Towns
Simmons
Prince | Edwards
Edwards | Okogie
Russell | Maxey

Swaps mean nothing with Minnesota core players under contract for a long time and young

Maxey is worth at least mid first himself.

So essentially trading old Rubio who can’t shoot Beasley who is one criminal charge from being kicked out of the league and role player McDaniel who Sixers don’t need plus a first round

These trades do not help Sixers in any way. They don’t help Sixers for this upcoming season. They don’t help Sixers in the future.

[the_process]

Beasley, McDaniels, Brown, 2023 MIN 1st, and 2025 PHI 1st to DET
Simmons to MIN
Harris, 2023 PHI 1st, and 2025 MIN 1st to OKC
Grant, Prince, Jerome, 2027 MIN 1st, and swap rights w/MIN in 22, 24, and 26 to PHI

[babyjax13]

CJ McCollum is still a great option as a trade candidate for Simmons. I am sure he would thrive in a featured role vs supporting Damian. Oddly, the move would not only answer the defensive issues the Blazers have - but with Powell moving to the starting SG - and Ben becoming a Point SF and PG, it would open up minutes for Nassir Little and Anfernee Simons to develop - even with Covington and Nance Jr sharing time between SF/PF and Center. It would be a great challenge to see how Chauncey would handle this rotation

I basically agree but I keep wondering if both teams remain uninterested for secondary, non-bball reasons. Sixers probably don’t like that CJ is 30 in a few weeks and probably only has 2-3 more peak seasons (Simmons just turned 25), and Blazers probably don’t like that Simmons is a mysterious/mercurial personality at a time when they can’t afford any slip ups (lest Dame gets annoyed/offended). So both orgs have aims/directions that might be taking them away from what seems like a great swap for on court needs and roster balance.

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

[JRoy]

CJ McCollum is still a great option as a trade candidate for Simmons. I am sure he would thrive in a featured role vs supporting Damian. Oddly, the move would not only answer the defensive issues the Blazers have - but with Powell moving to the starting SG - and Ben becoming a Point SF and PG, it would open up minutes for Nassir Little and Anfernee Simons to develop - even with Covington and Nance Jr sharing time between SF/PF and Center. It would be a great challenge to see how Chauncey would handle this rotation

I basically agree but I keep wondering if both teams remain uninterested for secondary, non-bball reasons. Sixers probably don’t like that CJ is 30 in a few weeks and probably only has 2-3 more peak seasons (Simmons just turned 25), and Blazers probably don’t like that Simmons is a mysterious/mercurial personality at a time when they can’t afford any slip ups (lest Dame gets annoyed/offended). So both orgs have aims/directions that might be taking them away from what seems like a great swap for on court needs and roster balance.

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

[babyjax13]

I basically agree but I keep wondering if both teams remain uninterested for secondary, non-bball reasons. Sixers probably don’t like that CJ is 30 in a few weeks and probably only has 2-3 more peak seasons (Simmons just turned 25), and Blazers probably don’t like that Simmons is a mysterious/mercurial personality at a time when they can’t afford any slip ups (lest Dame gets annoyed/offended). So both orgs have aims/directions that might be taking them away from what seems like a great swap for on court needs and roster balance.

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

I'm sure, but let's say that CJ is off the table for Philly because of age, and/or off the table for Portland because Lillard wants him to stay, could that be something of interest in either event?

[Killboard]

Yes, and it’s not close.

Not sure if you have watched McDaniels enough.

Haven’t seen much of McD, but Halliburton is a terrific young player.

Nothing against Hali, he is well rounded, but McDaniels was the biggest snub in the rookie selections. Impressive defensive versatility and good C&S guy. He should have been top10 last class.

[JRoy]

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

I'm sure, but let's say that CJ is off the table for Philly because of age, and/or off the table for Portland because Lillard wants him to stay, could that be something of interest in either event?

If CJ is off the table I would do Powell and Nurk.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

I'm sure, but let's say that CJ is off the table for Philly because of age, and/or off the table for Portland because Lillard wants him to stay, could that be something of interest in either event?

One of my worries with Simmons is that if Portland ships out Dame's #2 and it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, that would likely mean Dame asks to leave Portland as well, so I think we should admit there is some merit to considering a trade based around Powell. I don't know if it's what I would prefer to do either but it looks like a lower risk, lower reward option for Portland.

My thought on that from Philly's side is that I don't think Powell really solves the problem the Sixers are looking to fix as he is not really a primary playmaker or someone I want creating at the end of tight games. But if he is who they prefer I'm not going to let that stand in the way, especially if that 3rd team can bring them a more primary playmaker it could work out just fine for them.

As to the 3rd team, I really debate whether it would be better to use Roco or Nance instead of Nurkic. For one I think they might have a better return, as people seem really down on Nurkic right now and I don't want to sell low on him or think he is some horrible fit with Simmons. Although I'll be honest on the other side while a starting front-court of Simmons-Roco-Nance would lack size (especially paired with a Dame/CJ backcourt) it might also terrorize the league in some ways.

I guess the Blazers would have some options of who they include with Powell to find the right fit from a 3rd team for Philly.

[kuclas]

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

I'm sure, but let's say that CJ is off the table for Philly because of age, and/or off the table for Portland because Lillard wants him to stay, could that be something of interest in either event?

One of my worries with Simmons is that if Portland ships out Dame's #2 and it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, that would likely mean Dame asks to leave Portland as well, so I think we should admit there is some merit to considering a trade based around Powell. I don't know if it's what I would prefer to do either but it looks like a lower risk, lower reward option for Portland.

My thought on that from Philly's side is that I don't think Powell really solves the problem the Sixers are looking to fix as he is not really a primary playmaker or someone I want creating at the end of tight games. But if he is who they prefer I'm not going to let that stand in the way, especially if that 3rd team can bring them a more primary playmaker it could work out just fine for them.

As to the 3rd team, I really debate whether it would be better to use Roco or Nance instead of Nurkic. For one I think they might have a better return, as people seem really down on Nurkic right now and I don't want to sell low on him or think he is some horrible fit with Simmons. Although I'll be honest on the other side while a starting front-court of Simmons-Roco-Nance would lack size (especially paired with a Dame/CJ backcourt) it might also terrorize the league in some ways.

I guess the Blazers would have some options of who they include with Powell to find the right fit from a 3rd team for Philly.

Simmons is so hard to value.

Embiid and Simmons work great on defense together. And regular season they work well even on offense. The stats don’t lie.

It’s just the Simmons/Embiid down the stretch in games. As teams sag off Simmons and pseudo double team Embiid creating less spacing

Now if dame has the ball down the stetch. Nurk would be essentially useless. The million dollar question is if simmons can defense the 5. If he can defend the 5. Simmons can be the roll man with Dame. That would create huge mismatch for Portland. But than again simmons free throws shooting comes into play. What if team just foul simmons intentionally near end of game.

I don’t know man. Simmons is so frustrating as a sixers fan. He’s incredible for most of the games. Than you see the stuff happen in hawks series.

[Myth]

I basically agree but I keep wondering if both teams remain uninterested for secondary, non-bball reasons. Sixers probably don’t like that CJ is 30 in a few weeks and probably only has 2-3 more peak seasons (Simmons just turned 25), and Blazers probably don’t like that Simmons is a mysterious/mercurial personality at a time when they can’t afford any slip ups (lest Dame gets annoyed/offended). So both orgs have aims/directions that might be taking them away from what seems like a great swap for on court needs and roster balance.

I'm not sure when Powell can be traded, but what if it were some kind of three way where Portland sends Powell + Nurkic + stuff, Philly gets Powell + stuff from a third team, the third team gets Nurkic + stuff from Portland?

Prefer to send CJ than Nurk and Powell

Yeah, Portland’s goal is the transition to a higher defense team. This solves a problem and opens up new ones with no assets left to plug the new problems. Simmons is too big of a headache unless the final roster makes sense.

[JRoy]

I'm sure, but let's say that CJ is off the table for Philly because of age, and/or off the table for Portland because Lillard wants him to stay, could that be something of interest in either event?

One of my worries with Simmons is that if Portland ships out Dame's #2 and it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, that would likely mean Dame asks to leave Portland as well, so I think we should admit there is some merit to considering a trade based around Powell. I don't know if it's what I would prefer to do either but it looks like a lower risk, lower reward option for Portland.

My thought on that from Philly's side is that I don't think Powell really solves the problem the Sixers are looking to fix as he is not really a primary playmaker or someone I want creating at the end of tight games. But if he is who they prefer I'm not going to let that stand in the way, especially if that 3rd team can bring them a more primary playmaker it could work out just fine for them.

As to the 3rd team, I really debate whether it would be better to use Roco or Nance instead of Nurkic. For one I think they might have a better return, as people seem really down on Nurkic right now and I don't want to sell low on him or think he is some horrible fit with Simmons. Although I'll be honest on the other side while a starting front-court of Simmons-Roco-Nance would lack size (especially paired with a Dame/CJ backcourt) it might also terrorize the league in some ways.

I guess the Blazers would have some options of who they include with Powell to find the right fit from a 3rd team for Philly.

Simmons is so hard to value.

Embiid and Simmons work great on defense together. And regular season they work well even on offense. The stats don’t lie.

It’s just the Simmons/Embiid down the stretch in games. As teams sag off Simmons and pseudo double team Embiid creating less spacing

Now if dame has the ball down the stetch. Nurk would be essentially useless. The million dollar question is if simmons can defense the 5. If he can defend the 5. Simmons can be the roll man with Dame. That would create huge mismatch for Portland. But than again simmons free throws shooting comes into play. What if team just foul simmons intentionally near end of game.

I don’t know man. Simmons is so frustrating as a sixers fan. He’s incredible for most of the games. Than you see the stuff happen in hawks series.

Agreed.

I think Simmons is the best chance POR has to contend.

CJ, RoCo and picks plus moving Nurk and POR youth for additional talent and/or picks to get Young Socialite is worth it in my view.

[zimpy27]

To Cavs: Beverley + 2x Wolves 2nds

To 76ers: McDaniels + Rubio + Beasley + 2x Wolves 1sts + 3x Wolves 1st Swaps

To Wolves: Simmons + Maxey + Joe

76ers::
Embiid
Harris
Green | McDaniels
Beasley | Thybulle
Rubio | Curry

Wolves::
Towns
Simmons
Prince | Edwards
Edwards | Okogie
Russell | Maxey

If only wolves hadn't moved Rubio for Prince.

This would have been a much better value trade

[OGSactownballer]

I’ve said this many times on many threads.

The trade that makes the most sense between POR and PHI is CJ for Harris.

Salaries match. Perceived talent level (borderline all star) matches. And most important of all it provides great balance for both rosters.

POR can still move Powell to start at SG (BTW I don’t think he can be traded until the mid season mark because he is a new signing but check with the CBA experts) run RoCo at the SF where he plays best, Harris at PF and Nance as the sixth man - which will be better fir him to get more shots that he needs to produce instead of being the fifth option with the starters. That’s a scary squad to me because they can match anyone and have match nightmares all over the floor.

PHI gets a guy who I would have no problem taking Kate game bug shots in CJ and will likely shine as the starting SG there. They are already big heavy but if they did then do a deal fir Simmons to bring back a younger PF prospect then they have a spot to start that player next to Embiid and that can only help development immediately. CJ is also fully capable of swinging to PG as he has whenever Dame was out and you then have complete versatility at the other spots - including going super big at the 4/5 with Embiid/Drummond (Embiid has 3pt range) to completely dominate low and have a three guard set up with CJ/Maxey/Green (or depending on other moves a guy like Hield or sexton) so you have three dangerous shooters with a totally dominant post set. Also pretty damn scary and very effective for the late game where they have been incapable of getting it closed out in playoffs.

Just my .02 feel free to criticize but I have felt that both those rosters have been building a bad imbalance that keeps both teams from getting over the top for a while now.

[zimpy27]

POR get Simmons+Boucher+Milton and give CJ+Nurkic+POR23FRP
Lillard, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Boucher -- Simons, Milton, Snell, Nance, Zeller

TOR get Nurkic+Curry+Reed+POR23FRP and give FVV+Boucher
Dragic, Curry, OG, Siakam, Nurkic -- Flynn, Trent, Barnes, Achiuwa, Birch

PHI get FVV+CJ and give Simmons+Curry+Reed+Milton
FVV, CJ, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

[OGSactownballer]

I don’t think Masai is planning any moves at all unless they come out the gate a complete train wreck. He feels that getting back to TOR and health is going to make the difference of them being back in the top four in the East. He may well be right. And if not, I doubt they move FVV or OG at all. It would be Siakam and parts most likely looking for draft capital and young prospects.