Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

[closg00]

Pritchard & Presti are the top-two GMs in the league IMO. Ernie is a C+ GM.

I think you're placing too much emphasis on which GM's have accumulated prospects rather than which GM's have made bold successful moves to win championships. I'd say that Danny Ainge and Mitch Kupchek are two of the top GM's in the business and easily better than Pritchard & Presti. Ainge has plucked absolute gems in the late first-early second with Rando, Powe, Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, and I know Al Jefferson was taken at 15, but that was still a damn good spot to pick a 20/10 post player who ended up being the center piece of a KG trade.

It's easy for Presti to score big on his drafts when he's always drafted in the top five and if it weren't for Pritchards mistake the OKC Thunder would be one of the worst teams in the league. Also, Presti absolutely should have taken Evans over Harden. That will be a huge mistake that costs them down the line, huge mistake.

Further, Pritchard sat on his prospects and didn't cash in on them while they still had value. He squandered the trade value of Bayless, Rudy, Webster, Outlaw, and Aldridge when he could have used them to acquire an absolute superstar. Ainge gave up 7 picks/prospects for KG, all of whom looked promising but none of them besides Jefferson are worth anything at this point. All that did was bring a championship and almost another ring to Boston.

Lastly, you also can't discount Mitch Kupchek as a GM. He rolled the dice on Bynum when he was a 17 year old pup and Bynum was the difference in the Lakers winning the championship this year. He also swindled the Grizz by ripping off Gasol for jack. Sure you'll say that Chris Wallace was an idiot for making such a lopsided trade, but EG didn't do it even though he had the resources to pull the trigger. In addition, he jettisoned Ariza, who looked very promising last year, for a grizzled lunatic in Artest who happened to win game 6 and game 7 of the finals for the Lakers this year.

I know we can get mesmerized by which teams have the most young talent, but a lot of the time the shine of young talent wears off and I'm sure it will for OKC down the line.

How-so?

[mohammed10]

Could be a toss-up here, Ernie probably has a few moves left this summer and if Flip can manage to get the new group playing together and make the playoffs, Ernie or Flip could be rewarded with one of those awards.

That comment evokes the 'water into wine' concept

[closg00]

Could be a toss-up here, Ernie probably has a few moves left this summer and if Flip can manage to get the new group playing together and make the playoffs, Ernie or Flip could be rewarded with one of those awards.

That comment evokes the 'water into wine' concept

A LOT of dominoes would have to fall in-order for us to make the playoffs. Then-again, look how-well the Bucks did with Jennings running things, who-knows.

[mohammed10]

A LOT of dominoes would have to fall in-order for us to make the playoffs. Then-again, look how-well the Bucks did with Jennings running things, who-knows.

closg - I think Jennings had a bit more help (Bogut and Salmons) than we have. They had better depth. But like you said, you never know.

Personally, making the playoffs would set this squad back...need another lottery appearance or two to set things right

[JonathanJoseph]

How-so?

Whoa. I think I just flashed back to Zoolander.

[montestewart]

How-so?

Whoa. I think I just flashed back to Zoolander.

"But why OKC models?"

[JonathanJoseph]

How-so?

Whoa. I think I just flashed back to Zoolander.

"But why OKC models?"

[Silvie Lysandra]

Pritchard & Presti are the top-two GMs in the league IMO. Ernie is a C+ GM.

Further, Pritchard sat on his prospects and didn't cash in on them while they still had value. He squandered the trade value of Bayless, Rudy, Webster, Outlaw, and Aldridge when he could have used them to acquire an absolute superstar. Ainge gave up 7 picks/prospects for KG, all of whom looked promising but none of them besides Jefferson are worth anything at this point. All that did was bring a championship and almost another ring to Boston.

Yes, absolutely this. Imagine how history is different if the Blazers trade for KG, or some other team trades for Gasol. At the same time, though, you have to have the *right* superstar to trade for too. For example, if a team had sold the farm for Amare, I think they would have gotten burned because

1: he would have left in FA anyway most likely
2: he's dependent on a star PG and not a good rebounder or defender

I'm not sure Gasol is an ideal fit on every team too.

But other than that, I agree, but at the same time, you can't consolidate your talent for the sake of consolidating your talent - there may not be always a KG or Gasol to trade for.

[closg00]

Pritchard & Presti are the top-two GMs in the league IMO. Ernie is a C+ GM.

I think you're placing too much emphasis on which GM's have accumulated prospects rather than which GM's have made bold successful moves to win championships. I'd say that Danny Ainge and Mitch Kupchek are two of the top GM's in the business and easily better than Pritchard & Presti. Ainge has plucked absolute gems in the late first-early second with Rando, Powe, Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, and I know Al Jefferson was taken at 15, but that was still a damn good spot to pick a 20/10 post player who ended up being the center piece of a KG trade.

It's easy for Presti to score big on his drafts when he's always drafted in the top five and if it weren't for Pritchards mistake the OKC Thunder would be one of the worst teams in the league. Also, Presti absolutely should have taken Evans over Harden. That will be a huge mistake that costs them down the line, huge mistake.

Further, Pritchard sat on his prospects and didn't cash in on them while they still had value. He squandered the trade value of Bayless, Rudy, Webster, Outlaw, and Aldridge when he could have used them to acquire an absolute superstar. Ainge gave up 7 picks/prospects for KG, all of whom looked promising but none of them besides Jefferson are worth anything at this point. All that did was bring a championship and almost another ring to Boston.

Lastly, you also can't discount Mitch Kupchek as a GM. He rolled the dice on Bynum when he was a 17 year old pup and Bynum was the difference in the Lakers winning the championship this year. He also swindled the Grizz by ripping off Gasol for jack. Sure you'll say that Chris Wallace was an idiot for making such a lopsided trade, but EG didn't do it even though he had the resources to pull the trigger. In addition, he jettisoned Ariza, who looked very promising last year, for a grizzled lunatic in Artest who happened to win game 6 and game 7 of the finals for the Lakers this year.

I know we can get mesmerized by which teams have the most young talent, but a lot of the time the shine of young talent wears off and I'm sure it will for OKC down the line.

Your job as GM is made so-much easier when you have a superstar player(s). Kobe Bryant & Kevin Garnett (post-trade) aren't too shabby centerpieces Prior to Ainge lucking into the Garnett deal, Ainge's ass was on the line and his name was number#1 for GM's with their heads on the chopping-block.

Mitch Kupchek didn't really roll the dice on Bynum, the Lakers needed a Center to develop and Bynum was one of the top prospects and the no-brainer pick at #10. The other centers picked after Bynum in the 1st round? Johan Petro -25 & Ian Mahinmi - 28.

Both Kupchek & Ainge both benefited from being able to take advantage of desperate GMs who had to or wanted to make trades (Just like Ernie was abused in similar scenarios), but they are both fine GMs.

Pritchard by-far was on the winning end of just about every trade he was involved in. Was he perfect? No, but he did make attempts to make trades using some of the assets you mentioned, not every trade proposal goes down. On draft night again, Pritchard was able to get the player he coveted because he had the assets to make the deal possible. "Pritchard slapped" is practically in the dictionary now.

[JonathanJoseph]

Honestly, I'm a little upset that at the end of 97 pages mostly trashing GMEG, I compared him favorably to Sam Presti and didn't get much of a reaction.

Bump?

[montestewart]

Honestly, I'm a little upset that at the end of 97 pages mostly trashing GMEG, I compared him favorably to Sam Presti and didn't get much of a reaction.

Bump?

I tried.

[Dat2U]

Honestly, I'm a little upset that at the end of 97 pages mostly trashing GMEG, I compared him favorably to Sam Presti and didn't get much of a reaction.

Bump?

I was hoping someone else would point it out but oh well, I'll bite:

So for all the EG hatred around here and subsequent worship of all-things-Presti, Grunfeld has managed to put the Wizards in a fairly comparable place in 3 months despite Presti having a 3 year head start.

Define a "fairly comparable place"???

2009-10 OKC 50-32 (Playoffs: lost in 6 games to Lakers)
2009-10 WAS 26-56 (Tied for 5th worst record in the league)

If ANY 2 of the Wiz prospects become "pieces" and the Wiz renounce the rights to the other 4 (other than Seraphin and Booker, none have guaranteed contracts), the Wiz could very easily have as many "pieces" as OKC and more cap room within 1 year.

Too much conjecture here. We have no idea what Seraphin or Booker will do in the league. We have no one like Durant. And this core hasn't even played a game yet. Also, as long as Hinrich is on the roster we won't have a ton of cap room. And I think EG has coveted him long enough to want to keep him here for a while

[Silvie Lysandra]

Depends on how fast we get better.

If we win 36-40 games this year and make the playoffs (which wouldn't suprise me one bit - Blatche played like a top 15 big man, McGee finished strong, we have John Wall, and we may well have a healthy Gilbert Arenas, all on a team that was average defensively with Randy Foye, Earl Boykins, Mike Miller, McGee, Arenas, Jamison and Butler getting lots of minutes), and make a big leap in year 2 (44-48 wins), then we can resign Hinrich to something like 4 years 24 million and feel pretty good about it. I think he's a championship piece as a backup PG and perimeter defender.

The Thunder sucked for 2 years after getting Durant; I think we'll get good much faster because it's the East, and I think we have more talent to start with than Presti did (Blatche would easily be the second best player on the Thunder before Westbrook's emergence this year, for example).

[JonathanJoseph]

Depends on how fast we get better.

If we win 36-40 games this year and make the playoffs (which wouldn't suprise me one bit - Blatche played like a top 15 big man, McGee finished strong, we have John Wall, and we may well have a healthy Gilbert Arenas, all on a team that was average defensively with Randy Foye, Earl Boykins, Mike Miller, McGee, Arenas, Jamison and Butler getting lots of minutes), and make a big leap in year 2 (44-48 wins), then we can resign Hinrich to something like 4 years 24 million and feel pretty good about it. I think he's a championship piece as a backup PG and perimeter defender.

The Thunder sucked for 2 years after getting Durant; I think we'll get good much faster because it's the East, and I think we have more talent to start with than Presti did (Blatche would easily be the second best player on the Thunder before Westbrook's emergence this year, for example).

This.

I don't think 36-40 wins is a stretch, in fact, I think it's likely. #1 overall picks improve teams an average of 10 games by themselves, and plenty think Wall is a lot more than the average #1 pick. The 80%-Arenas still averaged 22/7, a huge step up from Foye and you have to think Hinrich is comparable to Mike Miller. Seraphin/Booker/Ndyiae/Yi only have to outperform James Singleton and Fab Oberto to be an upgrade, which is to say it's at least 50/50.

It's seems a lot would have to go wrong for the Wizards to NOT improve 10 games, which means at least 36 wins. And folks are so quick to underestimate Flip Saunders. Flip won 45 games in a season with Tom Gugliotta as his leading scorer. Wizards fans know Gugs.

I still think the Wiz are .500 or better w/ a remotely healthy Arenas.

[JonathanJoseph]

Define a "fairly comparable place"???

2009-10 OKC 50-32 (Playoffs: lost in 6 games to Lakers)
2009-10 WAS 26-56 (Tied for 5th worst record in the league)


Too much conjecture here. We have no idea what Seraphin or Booker will do in the league. We have no one like Durant. And this core hasn't even played a game yet. Also, as long as Hinrich is on the roster we won't have a ton of cap room. And I think EG has coveted him long enough to want to keep him here for a while

Yes a fairly comparable place if you add the context. Presti is entering year 4 of his strategy. Grunfeld is entering month 4. How about you give him a few actual basketball games before we start condemning the moves?

And as to conjecture, there's no more conjecture in what I said than there is "thinking" Grunfeld will keep Hinrich around. The cap room becomes available after the new CBA when the Wizards are ready to contend. Seems like more of a viable strategy than "thinking" Grunfeld wants to keep him here for a while.

[Kanyewest]

Why Sam Presti is solid but not a genius

A) He has Kevin Durant
B) The Thunder have been healthy: Kevin Durant played 82 games, Russell Westbrook played 82 games, Jeff Green played 82 games, Sefolosha played 82 games, Harden played 76 games, even injury prone Kristic played 76 games
C) He didn't have the #1 Pick in the 2007 Draft
D) CP3 got injured and the New Orleans Hornets, who were on pace to make the playoffs before his injury- would have left the Thunder on the outside looking in
E) People forget that Presti took James Harden over Tyreke Evans

[nate33]

^
Excellent post.

People need to realize that being a good GM requires a heck of a lot of luck to go with skill. Presti has been pretty lucky.

[AceDegenerate]

I'll take Pritchard over Grunfeld right now.

[queridiculo]

Pritchard has done **** all in Portland, I really don't see what the lovefest with this guy is all about.

[LyricalRico]

Pritchard has done **** all in Portland, I really don't see what the lovefest with this guy is all about.

It's all about overrating another team's young players. I guess if somebody else has them, they must automatically be really good. Portland hasn't gone anywhere and will continue to go nowhere until they find another star. Too bad all their young guys will be up for new contracts by then since Pritchard refused to part with any of them.