Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season 2015-2016 Part 2

[Pillendreher]

Kanter is getting paid like a starter so he should be getting minutes ESPECIALLY with Durant out. To me, there is no excuse.

Get realistic. Kanter had a drtg of 145.6 and net rating of -52.4 and you wanted more court time. He was awful.

I think we has decent on the defensive end, had some nice contests. This wasn't on Kanter. Once again we got lit up by wings. Middleton, Warren, Bellinelli, Collison. That's 4 guys in 4 games. This is on our guards playing defense.

Oh and we lacked defensive intelligence completely. It's ok to sack off Rondo, but what's the point in doing that if you just let him drive by you? And how many times did we give up the baseline? That's just stupid.

I've said it and I'm gonna say it again. Defense and rebounding is what's hurting us. Donovan has to adress this.

Oh and Royce Young is kinda chiming in criticizing Dion. Maybe he's finally being shopped.

[bondom34]

Of course we have terrible bench players, but i feel KD & WB (and ibaka) stopped carrying about regular season so much, and thats really a big concern to me. I can understand why, they suffered so many injuries over the years that they think the only important thing is to get healthy comes playoff time, which is of course the most important. But they forgot how important it is to have home court advantage ,and mostly how important it is to build a solid group, a solid team defense and showing the other guys the extra energy needed to be an elite team. KD defended pretty well against lebron some weeks ago ( and against kobe in some stretches), so we know he can do it, but he has shown no effort on a daily basis ( sure he can be struggling with his condition, but then it would be better to play him less minutes or even to sit him some games).

Yeah, we have an unreal amount of one way players ( or no way players indeed), but our bench in 2012-2013 was also pretty bad. This season every guard or wing player can put 30+ points when guarded by westbrook or durant. thats a big concern to me.

There's no reason that a KD/WB/Ibaka/Adams/roberson ( or any other wing player) can't be good on defense. I feel its only about effort and motivation. We have a lot of problems, we should try to trade for a wing player ( please presti do it!), cut waiters minutes and stuff, but at the end, i feel the problems ( and the solution!) starts with our big 3 ( yeah still have faith in ibaka to say big 3)

The starters have a D rating of 91.7. The issue is not at all with them.

[Marcus50]

Of course we have terrible bench players, but i feel KD & WB (and ibaka) stopped carrying about regular season so much, and thats really a big concern to me. I can understand why, they suffered so many injuries over the years that they think the only important thing is to get healthy comes playoff time, which is of course the most important. But they forgot how important it is to have home court advantage ,and mostly how important it is to build a solid group, a solid team defense and showing the other guys the extra energy needed to be an elite team. KD defended pretty well against lebron some weeks ago ( and against kobe in some stretches), so we know he can do it, but he has shown no effort on a daily basis ( sure he can be struggling with his condition, but then it would be better to play him less minutes or even to sit him some games).

Yeah, we have an unreal amount of one way players ( or no way players indeed), but our bench in 2012-2013 was also pretty bad. This season every guard or wing player can put 30+ points when guarded by westbrook or durant. thats a big concern to me.

There's no reason that a KD/WB/Ibaka/Adams/roberson ( or any other wing player) can't be good on defense. I feel its only about effort and motivation. We have a lot of problems, we should try to trade for a wing player ( please presti do it!), cut waiters minutes and stuff, but at the end, i feel the problems ( and the solution!) starts with our big 3 ( yeah still have faith in ibaka to say big 3)

The starters have a D rating of 91.7. The issue is not at all with them.

Agree our starters do not have a problem defending, in fact the're top tier defense. Our bench defense is frightful. Given they rotate out Robes fairly early I would bring him back with the bench rotation.

[spearsy23]

We really need someone to replace Dion, that's just obvious. But After that we have to look for someone who protects the rim better than Nick. It's finally time to phase him out of the rotation and let him be a player/coach. He is a good positional defender, but when Morrow and Payne get beat he isn't a deterrent. The alternative solution is a Kanter trade, which actually works better if we can keep Mitch.

Kanter and 2nd for Tucker and Chandler. Problems solved if Kanter is willing. It's also a short sighted move that probably hurts in the future, but ugh this season is frustrating.

[bondom34]

We really need someone to replace Dion, that's just obvious. But After that we have to look for someone who protects the rim better than Nick. It's finally time to phase him out of the rotation and let him be a player/coach. He is a good positional defender, but when Morrow and Payne get beat he isn't a deterrent. The alternative solution is a Kanter trade, which actually works better if we can keep Mitch.

Kanter and 2nd for Tucker and Chandler. Problems solved if Kanter is willing. It's also a short sighted move that probably hurts in the future, but ugh this season is frustrating.

I don't think it does. They need $$ to keep Adams.

[spearsy23]

We really need someone to replace Dion, that's just obvious. But After that we have to look for someone who protects the rim better than Nick. It's finally time to phase him out of the rotation and let him be a player/coach. He is a good positional defender, but when Morrow and Payne get beat he isn't a deterrent. The alternative solution is a Kanter trade, which actually works better if we can keep Mitch.

Kanter and 2nd for Tucker and Chandler. Problems solved if Kanter is willing. It's also a short sighted move that probably hurts in the future, but ugh this season is frustrating.

I don't think it does. They need $$ to keep Adams.

That's why I think it hurts. Chandler will still be making 12+ million when Adams is re-signed. It hurts less than 18 million, but we would still have to replace Tucker when he leaves, plus re-sign or replace A-mo, or else we're right back in the same boat. I think Kanter for low dollar backup center (rookie scale or old vet) + fairly paid backup wing is the more likely scenario. We really need Dakari to pan out as a long term backup or else we're gonna be in a tough spot in two years.


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[bondom34]

We really need someone to replace Dion, that's just obvious. But After that we have to look for someone who protects the rim better than Nick. It's finally time to phase him out of the rotation and let him be a player/coach. He is a good positional defender, but when Morrow and Payne get beat he isn't a deterrent. The alternative solution is a Kanter trade, which actually works better if we can keep Mitch.

Kanter and 2nd for Tucker and Chandler. Problems solved if Kanter is willing. It's also a short sighted move that probably hurts in the future, but ugh this season is frustrating.

I don't think it does. They need $$ to keep Adams.

That's why I think it hurts. Chandler will still be making 12+ million when Adams is re-signed. It hurts less than 18 million, but we would still have to replace Tucker when he leaves, plus re-sign or replace A-mo, or else we're right back in the same boat. I think Kanter for low dollar backup center (rookie scale or old vet) + fairly paid backup wing is the more likely scenario. We really need Dakari to pan out as a long term backup or else we're gonna be in a tough spot in two years.


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Its a better spot than paying Kanter 17 and whatever Dion makes. By that point I doubt Tucker or A Mo are above MLE type money, and Morrow has said he'd like to stick around. If KD and Russ stay, they could find guys to probably take a little less. I think I'd feel better about Chandler at 13 mil playing 20 mpg than Kanter at 17 doing the same. I'd do Asik/Evans too.

[spearsy23]

I don't think it does. They need $$ to keep Adams.

That's why I think it hurts. Chandler will still be making 12+ million when Adams is re-signed. It hurts less than 18 million, but we would still have to replace Tucker when he leaves, plus re-sign or replace A-mo, or else we're right back in the same boat. I think Kanter for low dollar backup center (rookie scale or old vet) + fairly paid backup wing is the more likely scenario. We really need Dakari to pan out as a long term backup or else we're gonna be in a tough spot in two years.


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Its a better spot than paying Kanter 17 and whatever Dion makes. By that point I doubt Tucker or A Mo are above MLE type money, and Morrow has said he'd like to stick around. If KD and Russ stay, they could find guys to probably take a little less. I think I'd feel better about Chandler at 13 mil playing 20 mpg than Kanter at 17 doing the same. I'd do Asik/Evans too.

I don't think the question would ever be Kanter or Chandler, Enes will have to be moved. it's more a question of if we can split him into two or three players that are more effective as a totality at the same price or cheaper. Ideally at least one guy will be young enough to not have a precipitous decline, which is my main problem with Chandler/Tucker. We'll be paying more money for increasingly less production, so we'll have to make that up by signing someone even more expensive, since we don't have any prospects waiting in the wings. Abrines and Dakari are the trump cards. If either of them become effective players, then we can survive an overpay for a year or two. I have high hopes for Dakari being able to play a role, I doubt Abrines ever makes it over.

[bondom34]

That's why I think it hurts. Chandler will still be making 12+ million when Adams is re-signed. It hurts less than 18 million, but we would still have to replace Tucker when he leaves, plus re-sign or replace A-mo, or else we're right back in the same boat. I think Kanter for low dollar backup center (rookie scale or old vet) + fairly paid backup wing is the more likely scenario. We really need Dakari to pan out as a long term backup or else we're gonna be in a tough spot in two years.


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Its a better spot than paying Kanter 17 and whatever Dion makes. By that point I doubt Tucker or A Mo are above MLE type money, and Morrow has said he'd like to stick around. If KD and Russ stay, they could find guys to probably take a little less. I think I'd feel better about Chandler at 13 mil playing 20 mpg than Kanter at 17 doing the same. I'd do Asik/Evans too.

I don't think the question would ever be Kanter or Chandler, Enes will have to be moved. it's more a question of if we can split him into two or three players that are more effective as a totality at the same price or cheaper. Ideally at least one guy will be young enough to not have a precipitous decline, which is my main problem with Chandler/Tucker. We'll be paying more money for increasingly less production, so we'll have to make that up by signing someone even more expensive, since we don't have any prospects waiting in the wings. Abrines and Dakari are the trump cards. If either of them become effective players, then we can survive an overpay for a year or two. I have high hopes for Dakari being able to play a role, I doubt Abrines ever makes it over.

Ah that makes sense, I've been trying to think of deals I'd like, Asik and Evans or Gordon I'd do. Matthews and whoever but Dallas wouldn't, then I don't know what the market is.

[bondom34]

That's why I think it hurts. Chandler will still be making 12+ million when Adams is re-signed. It hurts less than 18 million, but we would still have to replace Tucker when he leaves, plus re-sign or replace A-mo, or else we're right back in the same boat. I think Kanter for low dollar backup center (rookie scale or old vet) + fairly paid backup wing is the more likely scenario. We really need Dakari to pan out as a long term backup or else we're gonna be in a tough spot in two years.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Its a better spot than paying Kanter 17 and whatever Dion makes. By that point I doubt Tucker or A Mo are above MLE type money, and Morrow has said he'd like to stick around. If KD and Russ stay, they could find guys to probably take a little less. I think I'd feel better about Chandler at 13 mil playing 20 mpg than Kanter at 17 doing the same. I'd do Asik/Evans too.

I don't think the question would ever be Kanter or Chandler, Enes will have to be moved. it's more a question of if we can split him into two or three players that are more effective as a totality at the same price or cheaper. Ideally at least one guy will be young enough to not have a precipitous decline, which is my main problem with Chandler/Tucker. We'll be paying more money for increasingly less production, so we'll have to make that up by signing someone even more expensive, since we don't have any prospects waiting in the wings. Abrines and Dakari are the trump cards. If either of them become effective players, then we can survive an overpay for a year or two. I have high hopes for Dakari being able to play a role, I doubt Abrines ever makes it over.

Oh, and here is a laugh. That Kanter fan talking up his boy on TF like Cousins didn't steal his lunch:

http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/showthread.php?13965-Bench-has-to-be-upgraded&p=210297#post210297

[getrichordie]

Kanter is getting paid like a starter so he should be getting minutes ESPECIALLY with Durant out. To me, there is no excuse.

Get realistic. Kanter had a drtg of 145.6 and net rating of -52.4 and you wanted more court time. He was awful.

That onus is on our coaching staff. We paid the man. We need to play the man.

[spearsy23]

Kanter is getting paid like a starter so he should be getting minutes ESPECIALLY with Durant out. To me, there is no excuse.

Get realistic. Kanter had a drtg of 145.6 and net rating of -52.4 and you wanted more court time. He was awful.

That onus is on our coaching staff. We paid the man. We need to play the man.

... Right, so our lineups in terms of minutes played should be
KD
Russ
Kanter
Serge
Waiters
Singler
Collison
Novak
Morrow
Augustin
Adams
Roberson
Payne
McGary
Huestis

We paid him because the alternative was losing him for nothing. It isn't on the coaching staff to force feed him minutes while he plays like a pile of dog crap. It's on him to play well enough to justify his minutes.

[getrichordie]

Get realistic. Kanter had a drtg of 145.6 and net rating of -52.4 and you wanted more court time. He was awful.

That onus is on our coaching staff. We paid the man. We need to play the man.

... Right, so our lineups in terms of minutes played should be
KD
Russ
Kanter
Serge
Waiters
Singler
Collison
Novak
Morrow
Augustin
Adams
Roberson
Payne
McGary
Huestis

We paid him because the alternative was losing him for nothing. It isn't on the coaching staff to force feed him minutes while he plays like a pile of dog crap. It's on him to play well enough to justify his minutes.

Fair point. But I should be more precise and say that Donovan should have done a better job of maximizing Kanter's value as an offensive powerhouse and minimizing his negative defensive impact. His rotations were terrible.

[spearsy23]

That onus is on our coaching staff. We paid the man. We need to play the man.

... Right, so our lineups in terms of minutes played should be
KD
Russ
Kanter
Serge
Waiters
Singler
Collison
Novak
Morrow
Augustin
Adams
Roberson
Payne
McGary
Huestis

We paid him because the alternative was losing him for nothing. It isn't on the coaching staff to force feed him minutes while he plays like a pile of dog crap. It's on him to play well enough to justify his minutes.

Fair point. But I should be more precise and say that Donovan should have done a better job of maximizing Kanter's value as an offensive powerhouse and minimizing his negative defensive impact. His rotations were terrible.

By doing what exactly though? I've been the biggest critic of Donovan on the board since the moment Presti fired Scott, but there are some things that a coach just can't do. If Kanter is getting destroyed by a Center like Cousins the only option is to sit him down, you can't switch Nick onto him because it will be the same result. In other games there have been valid rotation criticisms, even ones about Enes and his playing time, but for this specific instance the only plausible solution was taking him out.

[Pillendreher]

Now you're just exaggerating. Cousins didn't destroy Kanter.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Kanter did get sucked in too much, but who thinks Cousins' gonna take a 3 as a trailer? He should have been out there tho.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Good initial defense by Kanter and then the whole team doesn't rotate. But yeah, Kanter loses his man a little bit. But again, you know he's not great on that end and Roberson can't give up baseline like that.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=256#

Bad transition defense by the whole team. Very good contest by Kanter and then Cousins just got the lucky bounce.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=422#

Tough shot and good contest by Kanter.

--------------------------------------------------

That's every point that Cousins scored with Kanter on the floor. Don't try and pin this on him. Kanter played 15 minutes, but didn't contribute offensively. Did he have a good game? No. Was it his fault that after leading 31-14, the team had a DRtG of 112.8 and an ORtG of just 86.4 the rest of the way? Hell no. Our defense sucked and that's not just entirely on Kanter. The team just didn't come to player after the first 8-9 minutes. We should have bitchslapped this team so hard they couldn't even find their way home, but instead we lost our way and therefore the game.

[spearsy23]

Now you're just exaggerating. Cousins didn't destroy Kanter.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Kanter did get sucked in too much, but who thinks Cousins' gonna take a 3 as a trailer? He should have been out there tho.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Good initial defense by Kanter and then the whole team doesn't rotate. But yeah, Kanter loses his man a little bit. But again, you know he's not great on that end and Roberson can't give up baseline like that.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=256#

Bad transition defense by the whole team. Very good contest by Kanter and then Cousins just got the lucky bounce.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=422#

Tough shot and good contest by Kanter.

--------------------------------------------------

That's every point that Cousins scored with Kanter on the floor. Don't try and pin this on him. Kanter played 15 minutes, but didn't contribute offensively. Did he have a good game? No. Was it his fault that after leading 31-14, the team had a DRtG of 112.8 and an ORtG of just 86.4 the rest of the way? Hell no. Our defense sucked and that's not just entirely on Kanter. The team just didn't come to player after the first 8-9 minutes. We should have bitchslapped this team so hard they couldn't even find their way home, but instead we lost our way and therefore the game.

Who is pinning everything on Kanter? I'm pinning him not playing extended minutes on himself. That's separate from the game as as whole, which was on everybody but Serge and Morrow.

Edit: Kanter comes in at the two and a half minute mark of the first and Cousins scores six points in a row. Cousins and Kanter come in at the 5:50 mark of the second and Cousins scores seven in as row. Cousins is a superstar, losing track of him, getting beat down the floor, switching off of him isn't an excuse. Kanter was toast. Burnt toast.

[bondom34]

Now you're just exaggerating. Cousins didn't destroy Kanter.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Kanter did get sucked in too much, but who thinks Cousins' gonna take a 3 as a trailer? He should have been out there tho.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=231#

Good initial defense by Kanter and then the whole team doesn't rotate. But yeah, Kanter loses his man a little bit. But again, you know he's not great on that end and Roberson can't give up baseline like that.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=256#

Bad transition defense by the whole team. Very good contest by Kanter and then Cousins just got the lucky bounce.

http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID=0021500517&GameEventID=422#

Tough shot and good contest by Kanter.

--------------------------------------------------

That's every point that Cousins scored with Kanter on the floor. Don't try and pin this on him. Kanter played 15 minutes, but didn't contribute offensively. Did he have a good game? No. Was it his fault that after leading 31-14, the team had a DRtG of 112.8 and an ORtG of just 86.4 the rest of the way? Hell no. Our defense sucked and that's not just entirely on Kanter. The team just didn't come to player after the first 8-9 minutes. We should have bitchslapped this team so hard they couldn't even find their way home, but instead we lost our way and therefore the game.

Pretty sure that's not all, because I think Cousins was like 9-13 while Kanter was on court. 2-14 with Adams. It wasn't all on Kanter, but he did a darn good job of helping it. The Kings announcers were even talking about being so glad Donovan would put Kanter on him during the broadcast.

[Pillendreher]

Of course putting Kanter on Cousins isn't the way to go, but I'm just saying defensive lapses aren't all on Kanter. Russell loses his man almost everytime he has to guard in a PnR and that puts us into a bad situation every time. That's worse than Kanter giving up 2-3 buckets per game.

[bondom34]

Of course putting Kanter on Cousins isn't the way to go, but I'm just saying defensive lapses aren't all on Kanter. Russell loses his man almost everytime he has to guard in a PnR and that puts us into a bad situation every time. That's worse than Kanter giving up 2-3 buckets per game.

Except again, Kanter gave up more than that. There's a reason the team's defense gave up 145 per 100 poss. when he was on court and about 40 less with Russ. Russ wasn't an issue defensively, Kanter being bullied was.

[Pillendreher]

Let's move along

The so called Two-way-player Dion Waiters has a lower eFG% than Andre Roberson (at least 4 ft from the distance). That's good for 238th in the league. Kyle Singler is even worse btw.

Maybe we should get guys that can actually shoot the ball.