Trade Talk (Part Four)

minimus · Post #1461 » by **minimus** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:56 am

shangrila wrote:Could even go Vassell, Deni or even Okoro. Go small with Hunter at the 4.

I am so intrigued by Okoro defensive potential, so I'd try him at PF if we get a solid SF. Okoro/Hunter duo at PF/SF works for me as well.

shangrila · Post #1462 » by **shangrila** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:39 pm

minimus wrote:
shangrila wrote:Could even go Vassell, Deni or even Okoro. Go small with Hunter at the 4.

I am so intrigued by Okoro defensive potential, so I'd try him at PF if we get a solid SF. Okoro/Hunter duo at PF/SF works for me as well.

I worry about his wingspan if you're playing him at the 4.

Neeva · Post #1463 » by **Neeva** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:48 pm

I want nothing to do with Okoro, let him be Nkilitina/knox 3.0 on the Knicks.

Neeva · Post #1464 » by **Neeva** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:50 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Nick K wrote:
The ideal pairing with KAT is Okongwu.

KAT. D'Lo and Edwards give us a "big 3" thing going.

Because of Okongwu's likely excellent D in and out you could be right. Wiseman has a lot more potential I think.

IMO Beasley is a better big three guy than Edwards.

Yeah if Hawks were to give Hunter and pick 6 for pick 1 then DLo, Beasley, Hunter, Okongwu, KAT would be a nice team.

I’d want Reddish over Hunter. Reddish and Edwards would be reduntant anyway for the Hawks.

shangrila · Post #1465 » by **shangrila** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:03 pm

Neeva wrote:I want nothing to do with Okoro, let him be Nkilitina/knox 3.0 on the Knicks.

He probably ends up like Justice Winslow.

Not terrible but not a core part of a team either.

minimus · Post #1466 » by **minimus** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:07 pm

shangrila wrote:
Neeva wrote:I want nothing to do with Okoro, let him be Nkilitina/knox 3.0 on the Knicks.

He probably ends up like Justice Winslow.

Not terrible but not a core part of a team either.

Would love to get Winslow type of big wing.

karch34 · Post #1467 » by **karch34** » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:11 pm

shangrila wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Because of Okongwu's likely excellent D in and out you could be right. Wiseman has a lot more potential I think.

IMO Beasley is a better big three guy than Edwards.

Yeah if Hawks were to give Hunter and pick 6 for pick 1 then DLo, Beasley, Hunter, Okongwu, KAT would be a nice team.

Could even go Vassell, Deni or even Okoro. Go small with Hunter at the 4.

Assuming we keep Beasley adding Hunter and Okwongu/Vassell/Okuro by trading 1 is my preferred plan. I like Okuro best as I see him as the wing defender who can create and be glue guy who seems like he would work hard on improving his shooting. Happy with Vassell too as see him as Covington type fit and also Okongwu would be an interior defending/rebounding presence. Think Towns, Dlo, and Beasley give us enough offense in starting lineup that we could use trade down to get more D and still look at 17 and 33 to get more shooting (maybe in package for Nesmith).

Wolveswin · Post #1468 » by **Wolveswin** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:49 pm

Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

Slim Tubby · Post #1469 » by **Slim Tubby** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:25 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

That seems way too good for MIN and pretty bad for ORL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wolveswin · Post #1470 » by **Wolveswin** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:49 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

That seems way too good for MIN and pretty bad for ORL.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, if Wolves standing offer for Gordon is #17 (plus maybe #33), that puts his value nothing too special. Maybe late lotto Magic can get elsewhere.

Isaac and Bamba are both red flagged. Bamba for his Covid recovery and his lack of linear development over first 2 years. Isaac for another major injury and about to get paid despite injury (very complicated scenario).

Should Magic trade them while value is depreciated? Maybe not, but if new brass finally wants to ship or get off the pot (something they haven’t done to date, by dragging out any trades of Gordon, Vucevic, Fournier, etc.), consolidating players with red flags and almost off rookie deals seems like a nice fresh start.

minimus · Post #1471 » by **minimus** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:14 pm

Trade one:
JJ, #1 pick, Nowell for Isaac, Aminu, #15 pick, ORL top10 protected 2021 FRP

Why for MIN: get Isaac, wait before he is fully healthy, get defensive minded veteran in Aminu
Why for ORL: draft Edwards, as starting SG next to Fultz. Vuс-Gordon/JJ-Ross/Iwindu-Edwards-Fultz

Trade two:
#15 pick, #17, Evans, Spellman for DET #7

Draft Killian Hayes, Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT(30)/Reid(15)/Tillie(3)
Juancho(20)/Vanderbilt(18)/Aminu(10) + Isaac (Disabled Player Exception for 2020/21 season)
Culver(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(13)/JMac(10)

+ ORL 2021 FRP

Ducklett · Post #1472 » by **Ducklett** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:38 pm

minimus wrote:Trade one:
JJ, #1 pick, Nowell for Isaac, Aminu, #15 pick, ORL top10 protected 2021 FRP

Why for MIN: get Isaac, wait before he is fully healthy, get defensive minded veteran in Aminu
Why for ORL: draft Edwards, as starting SG next to Fultz. Vuс-Gordon/JJ-Ross/Iwindu-Edwards-Fultz

Trade two:
#15 pick, #17, Evans, Spellman for DET #7

Draft Killian Hayes, Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT(30)/Reid(15)/Tillie(3)
Juancho(20)/Vanderbilt(18)/Aminu(10) + Isaac (Disabled Player Exception for 2020/21 season)
Culver(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(13)/JMac(10)

+ ORL 2021 FRP

In a regular draft where the number 1 is a AD or KD or Luka, I would make this deal in a heartbeat. For Anthony Edwards? Pass.

minimus · Post #1473 » by **minimus** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pm

Ducklett wrote:
minimus wrote:Trade one:
JJ, #1 pick, Nowell for Isaac, Aminu, #15 pick, ORL top10 protected 2021 FRP

Why for MIN: get Isaac, wait before he is fully healthy, get defensive minded veteran in Aminu
Why for ORL: draft Edwards, as starting SG next to Fultz. Vuс-Gordon/JJ-Ross/Iwindu-Edwards-Fultz

Trade two:
#15 pick, #17, Evans, Spellman for DET #7

Draft Killian Hayes, Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT(30)/Reid(15)/Tillie(3)
Juancho(20)/Vanderbilt(18)/Aminu(10) + Isaac (Disabled Player Exception for 2020/21 season)
Culver(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(13)/JMac(10)

+ ORL 2021 FRP

In a regular draft where the number 1 is a AD or KD or Luka, I would make this deal in a heartbeat. For Anthony Edwards? Pass.

Fair enough. ORL might get better offer for Isaac, Gordon and 2020, 2021 FRPs. It all depends on FO vision. If you invest next year playing Gordon full-time at PF, he will have only one year left in contract, so I doubt teams will offer even FRP for Gordon next offseason. You might get in playoff next season, so your FRP will not be high. Isaac also will be eligible for extension. It is a very difficult position to me. ORL dont have high pick, or players on bargain deals who outperforms their contracts, void at SG/SF, backup PG positions, stacked at PF with Gordon/Aminu/Isaac. The perfect trade is something like Gordon, #15 for Caris LeVert, but BRO want a superstar in return. Vuс-Isaac-Ross-LeVert-Fultz should be solid starting five in East.

Neeva · Post #1474 » by **Neeva** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:12 pm

Ducklett wrote:
minimus wrote:Trade one:
JJ, #1 pick, Nowell for Isaac, Aminu, #15 pick, ORL top10 protected 2021 FRP

Why for MIN: get Isaac, wait before he is fully healthy, get defensive minded veteran in Aminu
Why for ORL: draft Edwards, as starting SG next to Fultz. Vuс-Gordon/JJ-Ross/Iwindu-Edwards-Fultz

Trade two:
#15 pick, #17, Evans, Spellman for DET #7

Draft Killian Hayes, Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT(30)/Reid(15)/Tillie(3)
Juancho(20)/Vanderbilt(18)/Aminu(10) + Isaac (Disabled Player Exception for 2020/21 season)
Culver(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(13)/JMac(10)

+ ORL 2021 FRP

In a regular draft where the number 1 is a AD or KD or Luka, I would make this deal in a heartbeat. For Anthony Edwards? Pass.

Those aren’t regular drafts that is why there are only three of those in the league.

KGdaBom · Post #1475 » by **KGdaBom** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:20 pm

Neeva wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
minimus wrote:Trade one:
JJ, #1 pick, Nowell for Isaac, Aminu, #15 pick, ORL top10 protected 2021 FRP

Why for MIN: get Isaac, wait before he is fully healthy, get defensive minded veteran in Aminu
Why for ORL: draft Edwards, as starting SG next to Fultz. Vuс-Gordon/JJ-Ross/Iwindu-Edwards-Fultz

Trade two:
#15 pick, #17, Evans, Spellman for DET #7

Draft Killian Hayes, Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT(30)/Reid(15)/Tillie(3)
Juancho(20)/Vanderbilt(18)/Aminu(10) + Isaac (Disabled Player Exception for 2020/21 season)
Culver(25)/Layman(20)/Martin(3)
Beasley(25)/Okogie(20)/DLo(3)
DLo(25)/Hayes(13)/JMac(10)

+ ORL 2021 FRP

In a regular draft where the number 1 is a AD or KD or Luka, I would make this deal in a heartbeat. For Anthony Edwards? Pass.

Those aren’t regular drafts thats is why there are only three of those in the league.

And only one of them was a #1 pick anyway.

whatisacenter · Post #1476 » by **whatisacenter** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:53 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

Jedzz · Post #1477 » by **Jedzz** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:54 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

Hey I don't blame you. Personally I don't want Isaac on this team anymore so far that alone I say no before reading more. Isaac is now forever going to be a huge risk to make it through seasons and that's not going to even have a chance to start until the end of 2021.

But just for perspective and example, there was No Clear #1 in Luka's draft no matter what people claim afterwards. He went pick 3. There was no clear #1 in Durant's draft. He went #2. If their futures were clear, they never would have been passed over by even 1 or 2 slots.

whatisacenter · Post #1478 » by **whatisacenter** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:59 pm

Jedzz wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

Hey I don't blame you. Personally I don't want Isaac on this team anymore so far that alone I say no before reading more. Isaac is now forever going to be a huge risk to make it through seasons and that's not going to even have a chance to start until the end of 2021.

But just for perspective and example, there was No Clear #1 in Luka's draft no matter what people claim afterwards. He went pick 3. There was no clear #1 in Durant's draft. He went #2. If their futures were clear, they never would have been passed over by even 1 or 2 slots.

Yeah, it's a shame about Isaac's health concerns. I agree with your statement about not always have a clear cut number 1 the best player not always being at the top of the draft, but I was going more on pick value and moving up 1 spot in this draft probably won't net much of a return.

Wolveswin · Post #1479 » by **Wolveswin** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:14 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

That Wolves 2021 will lose value from where it sits today and substantial value compared to where it sat at time of trade.

Wolves will most certainly make a win-now move. Even if they don’t, a team with a Russell on board with #1 and #17 and Beasley re-signed has depreciated that pick.

If OKC goes tank, Memphis continues slide, Spurs waive the white flag, Magic go tank, and any number of teams who try and be worse than Wolves (who not owning their own 2021 are motivated to win), that 1st is destined to be late or non-lotto.

KGdaBom · Post #1480 » by **KGdaBom** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:17 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

I don't blame you at all for not wanting this trade.
However
This draft is not so bad that any lottery pick whatsoever next year will be better than #1 or even #2 overall this year. You should be happy about that. The 14th pick in next years draft is not better than #2 this year. neither is 13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5. Maybe #4 might be better. If the Wolves and Warriors pick well this year they will both get a very good player.