Deni Avdija

[tontoz]

You are the one who wanted to compare the two players so much, and it looks like anything that doesn't support your opinion is "nonsense", think what you want, it doesn't make it right.

I am not bring up Rui to compare their entire games. I am bringing him up because they play the same position in the same offense. You guys keep trying to blame the coaches and other players for Deni's lack of offense. That isn't the problem. Everyone else is playing in the same offense. There isn't a different offense for Deni.

Rui has problems with his game, but lack of aggression isn't one of them.

If Deni does nothing with the ball when he gets it, why would the coaches or players try to get him more touches? Why doesn't Deni drive to the basket when a defender is running out towards him at the 3 pt line? That is basic basketball.

When Deni blows routine layups, is that the coaches fault?

[tontoz]

Last year Deni improved his foul shooting by over 10% from the previous year. Was that because of coaching or was that just him working to improve his game? I suspect it's the latter.

[Dark Faze]

The ceiling at this point is Draymond Green with a better 3pt shot and worse playmaking imo. A line of like 14ppg, 5 apg, 8 rpg with all defense-level play would likely be one of the better seasons he'd have over his career. That's a great player though.

There's a good chance that playmaking never really develops either and he's just an elite defender with an average level (or slightly subpar) 3pt shot with good rebounding. That's also a nice player to have, just not as nice as what I mentioned.

And then there's his floor--3pt shot starts to crater a bit to the point where he's clearly a 32% type of shooter. Defense is generally great but he's foul prone. That's probably the worst case scenario where he becomes a bench roleplayer and maybe bounces around the league.

[Wizraeli]

You guys keep trying to blame the coaches and other players for Deni's lack of offense. That isn't the problem. Everyone else is playing in the same offense. There isn't a different offense for Deni.

No, you keep understanding what you want to understand, I've already explained to you a number of times that what I'm saying is that it's BOTH Deni's AND the coaching staff's fault, but you don't want to actually understand what I'm saying, you just want to preach.

If Deni does nothing with the ball when he gets it, why would the coaches or players try to get him more touches?

Because it's the best interest of the Wizards to do what they can to make Deni a better player as I've already said a number of times, Deni being active only on 1 side of the court helps no one, the attitude of "Deni is the one who needs to deal with it" didn't work in the last 2 years, why do you think it's going to work in the upcoming 2?

When Deni blows routine layups, is that the coaches fault?

No, it's Deni's confidence fault, but the people who's job is to help the players with such issues is at the very least the coaching staff.

Everyone else is playing in the same offense. There isn't a different offense for Deni.

You really don't understand that one player can thrive in a certain type of offense while the other doesn't? as a player, Rui doesn't care what anyone else thinks about him, all he cares about is the rim and all he cares about is scoring, so he's doing just fine with that style of offense, but he doesn't pass, he doesn't defend, so put him in a team like San Antonio or Utah and he will get benched sooner than later, Deni is the mirror image of Rui, for better and worse, so again, if you want to keep saying that it's all Deni's fault that he's isn't aggressive and Deni is the one who needs to deal with it by himself without the Wizards doing anything than you can keep saying that, but if the Wizards will also think like that the only thing that will do is make Deni passive for another 2 years and then he'll move on to another team, and this isn't good for Deni or the Wizards.

[tontoz]

News flash: The Wizards aren't going to change their offense to accomodate Deni, or any other player. Their priority is to win games, not appease Deni's Isreali fans.

Therefore it is Deni's responsibility to try to maximize his production under this system. From what i have seen that means he needs to look to drive to the basket when he gets the chance, which will frequently lead to a scoring opportunity for him or one of his teammates.

All of the other guys on the team look to take advantage of the opportunities they get. There is no reason Deni can't do the same thing.

[80sballboy]

News flash: The Wizards aren't going to change their offense to accomodate Deni, or any other player. Their priority is to win games, not appease Deni's Isreali fans.

Therefore it is Deni's responsibility to try to maximize his production under this system. From what i have seen that means he needs to look to drive to the basket when he gets the chance, which will frequently lead to a scoring opportunity for him or one of his teammates.

All of the other guys on the team look to take advantage of the opportunities they get. There is no reason Deni can't do the same thing.

100x. Love Deni as a player but the organization's job is to win. Not accommodate a 21-year-old talented but oft-injured player, who Wes and the staff obviously like. THEY ARE STARTING HIM after he missed the entire preseason. So all this supposed disrespect of the kid is BS. He was also a main focal point of the offense when Beal and Kuzma were injured. They are healthy so of course, he's going to be a fourth or fifth option as a starter.

[Wizraeli]

Their priority is to win games, not appease Deni's Isreali fans.

You keep talking like the "Israeli fans" are demanding he'll become the star of the team and the offensive play style will revolve around him, that's not what any of us is saying, especially me, asking to get him more involved in the ball movement is not a huge "demand", stop putting words in our and specifically in my mouth.

All of the other guys on the team look to take advantage of the opportunities they get. There is no reason Deni can't do the same thing.

Evidently there is a reason, otherwise he would have done the same, blaming Deni and saying he needs to deal with it evidently isn't working and probably isn't going to work, you just keep repeating yourself, I've addressed your claim multiple times, I don't see a reason to do it again.

[tontoz]

Their priority is to win games, not appease Deni's Isreali fans.

You keep talking like the "Israeli fans" are demanding he'll become the star of the team and the offensive play style will revolve around him, that's not what any of us is saying, especially me, asking to get him more involved in the ball movement is not a huge "demand", stop putting words in our and specifically in my mouth.

All of the other guys on the team look to take advantage of the opportunities they get. There is no reason Deni can't do the same thing.

Evidently there is a reason, otherwise he would have done the same, blaming Deni and saying he needs to deal with it evidently isn't working and probably isn't going to work, you just keep repeating yourself, I've addressed your claim multiple times, I don't see a reason to do it again.

Why should they change the offense to get Deni more involved when he doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it?

[Wizraeli]

So all this supposed disrespect of the kid is BS

Maybe it's a culture clash that is causing a misunderstanding, maybe it's a language barrier, I can't speak on behalf of others, but personally I haven't said a word about him being disrespected and I haven't said a word about him needing to become the star of the team and I even specifically said a number of times that I don't ask for him to get more shots, all I ask is not to put him in the corner and ignore him on the offense, he got good passing skills, there's no reason why the Wizards won't utilize them more, in my opinion feeling more involved in the offense in such a way will help his confidence.

the organization's job is to win. Not accommodate a 21-year-old

If the team thinks of that 21 year old as part of its future then part of the team's priorities is to help him develop, especially if he's a starter, thinking that helping him to improve can only happen on the expanse of winning is not a fact, it's your (rather extreme) assumption, there's no reason for it to be the case, the chart in the previous page proves Deni helps the team win right now, so even with all of his offensive limitations he's not a liability for the team, so why you and tontoz are taking it to the extreme places of "if Deni gets more touches the team will loose" I have no idea.

[Wizraeli]

Why should they change the offense to get Deni more involved when he doesn't do anything with the ball when he gets it?

I have answered that question many times, if you want my answer, read the previous posts.

[tontoz]

Last season Rui was out early in the season and Beal was out late in the season. That left a lot of extra opportunities for Deni. What did he do with those extra opportunities? Not much. He gave no indication that he is ready to handle more responsibility on offense.

Lets see if he can start converting routine layups before asking for him to get more touches.

[tleikheen]

After all the arguing is done ,the key to the Wiz to keep continuously surprising the EC is playing Deni ,Rui and Kispert and getting good play out of them .

[Wizraeli]

Last season Rui was out early in the season and Beal was out late in the season. That left a lot of extra opportunities for Deni. What did he do with those extra opportunities? Not much.

You see what you want to see, In the last 16 games of last season Deni averaged 12.6 points per game with 12 out of those 16 games were in double figures, in his first season he averaged 6.3 pts, in the second 8.4 pts, that's an improvement of 33%, your claim he did "not much" with his opportunities is factually wrong.

Lets see if he can start converting routine layups before asking for him to get more touches.

You ignore what doesn't support your claim and emphasis what does, you mention the 1 open layup he missed but forget to mention that he then scored 9 points in the 2nd half with 100% from 2, 100% from the line and 50% from 3 and that 1 of his baskets was a penetration from the 3 pt line like you claim he doesn't do, and he did that along side 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks and doing good defense on the opponents best player, talking like he's a liability for the team and that the Wizards will start loosing if god forbid he'll get to play more as a playmaker is not connected to reality, nothing bad will happen if he'll get more touches.

[tontoz]

Everyone here knows he can play defense. Nobody is debating that.

Last season Deni averaged 8.4 ppg shooting 43% from the field, 31.7% from 3. Sorry but that isn't convincing anyone that he should get more touches.

What coach in his right mind would make a point to get more touches for a low volume, low efficiency scorer?

[Wizraeli]

Everyone here knows he can play defense. Nobody is debating that.

But you keep talking like he's a liability and that the team will start loosing if the team will do the unspeakable and actually invest a little more in helping him in the offensive side.

Last season Deni averaged 8.4 ppg shooting 43% from the field, 31.7% from 3. Sorry but that isn't convincing anyone that he should get more touches

How many times do I need to say I don't ask for him to get more shots? I'm talking about playing him more as a playmaker, how his shooting percentage contradict it? but even if it was, both Beal and Kuzma shot 45% from the field last season, that's only 2% difference but you're talking about Deni's 43% like it's 10%, again you just twist and ignore what doesn't suit your opinion, you asked how Deni used the opportunities he got last season when Beal was out, I've answered you, 12.6 points a game, which is double the amount he averaged the season before, so instead of looking for another stat to emphasis and ignore the rest how about you admit that you were wrong and he actually did used the opportunities he got? how about you won't ignore the 9 points he did at the 2nd half with only 1 miss(from 3) when you claim he doesn't penetrate and doesn't do anything when he actually gets the ball?

[tontoz]

Everyone here knows he can play defense. Nobody is debating that.

But you keep talking like he's a liability and that the team will start loosing if the team will do the unspeakable and actually invest a little more in helping him in the offensive side.

Last season Deni averaged 8.4 ppg shooting 43% from the field, 31.7% from 3. Sorry but that isn't convincing anyone that he should get more touches

How many times do I need to say I don't ask for him to get more shots? I'm talking about playing him more as a playmaker, how his shooting percentage contradict it? but even if it was, both Beal and Kuzma shot 45% from the field last season, that's only 2% difference but you're talking about Deni's 43% like it's 10%, again you just twist and ignore what doesn't suit your opinion, you asked how Deni used the opportunities he got last season when Beal was out, I've answered you, 12.6 points a game, which is double the amount he averaged the season before, so instead of looking for another stat to emphasis and ignore the rest how about you admit that you were wrong and he actually did used the opportunities he got? how about you won't ignore the 9 points he did at the 2nd half with only 1 miss(from 3) when you claim he doesn't penetrate and doesn't do anything when he actually gets the ball?

Kuzma averaged 21 ppg after the All Star break on better efficiency.

I don't think Deni is a liability at all. I just think he is weak on offense. He can't be used as a playmaker unless he is willing to drive to break down the defense and create opportunities for himself and others.

His defense is good enough that he is still a positive on the court even if he doesn't score much. But he is embarrassing at times on offense and it isn't the coaches fault. They can't force him to drive when he has an opening. They can't force him to dunk when he gets near the rim.

At times I find myself frustrated when he refuses to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

For the record if I had to pick one guy to keep between Deni/ Kuzma/ Rui I would keep Deni. Top defenders are hard to find but that is a different discussion.

[Wizraeli]

At times I find myself frustrated when he refuses to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I'm frustrated as well, but occasionally he also does good things on offense, like the 2nd half, all I'm saying is that you can't expect him to become someone he's not without any help from the coaching staff, it's Deni's responsibility to improve but it doesn't mean the coaching staff can't help him with that, and no it doesn't necessarily means the team will start loosing just because Deni will touch the ball more than 2 times per quarter.

[tontoz]

At times I find myself frustrated when he refuses to take advantage of the opportunities he gets.

I'm frustrated as well, but occasionally he also does good things on offense, like the 2nd half, all I'm saying is that you can't expect him to become someone he's not without any help from the coaching staff, it's Deni's responsibility to improve but it doesn't mean the coaching staff can't help him with that, and no it doesn't necessarily means the team will start loosing just because Deni will touch the ball more than 2 times per quarter.

We just saw him play better in the second half. Was that coaching, or was that him just being more aggressive?

The coaches see him in practice every day. They know him better than we do.

[Wizraeli]

You don't know that wasn't coaching, you just assume, in fact the evidence suggest it was coaching, they started the half with Deni making an assist to Kuzma and then Deni made a long 2pt after a screen...both coached drawn plays, something that didn't happen in the 1st half, and before you tell me that you see, the Wizards play with him, that doesn't happen often and all I'm saying is that it needs to happen more, and not necessarily with Deni finishing the play.

[tontoz]

At the 58 second mark of this vid Deni does the exact thing that I want to see from him, but rarely does. As soon as he catches the ball he realizes he has an advantage and takes it to the basket. Hopefully he starts doing this more often.

Watch on YouTube