2016 Draft

[jcsunsfan]

The danger in evaluating right now is the Ed Pinckney syndrome. A player has a really good tournament run, gets noticed, and then gets drafted high. It turns out to be an abherration.

You have to consider these performances in context. Is the player able to continute the stellar play of the regular season while under the pressure of the tournament? That is a good sign. Is a player who is a really good player already, able to step up his game at tournament time? That is a good sign. Is a player that was EXPECTED to be really good, finally coming into his own at tournament time. That is a hopeful sign but could be deceiving. Beware of the average player that comes out of the blue and has a phenomenal tournament run.

[Krush32]

So I been thinking about Bender. Is there really a big difference between him and Jon Leuer?

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
Leuer -6' 10" 6' 11.5" 223 7' 0" 8' 9.5" 5.4 29.5 36.5
Bender-6' 11.5" 7' 0.5" 216 7' 2" 9' 3" NA 23.5 27.5

Both are pretty athletic but Bender seems faster getting up and down the court and Leuer can jump higher. They play a similar game which is more outside than an inside game. Bender doesnt have elite athleticism like Porzingas and doesnt shoot as well. Seems like he's getting alot of hype because of being the next euro big after Porzingas. I would expect him to have elite skills like a dirk or Pau but he doesnt. Hard to see him play next to Len when they are both lacking strength. I dont see Mcdonough having the patience for him to develop because if he doesnt improve the team now hes not gonna be around to witness it. Anyone remember Zarko Caparkaba? lol

[Krush32]

Btw, does anyone realize Booker is our best PG on the roster? He's a better ball handler than Knight/Bledsoe and always makes the right pass. Idk if he can guard the opposing PG's especially the quicker ones. Hopefully we can find a way to trade Knight/Bledsoe this offseason. I prefer Bled over knight because of his defense.

Id love to see a backcourt of Booker, Heild, and Warren at times. Get 2 big men that are good at setting picks and let them all run off picks.

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Sportando/status/714522095745699841[/tweet]

[Puff]

Haven't seen any interest in Brice Johnson of N Carolina on this board or in the media. Reminds me of a bigger version of The Matrix. If we don't get a shot at the top two guys I would consider him for our pick and surely would with the Washington pick. Quick leaper good shooter and very active. What's not to like?

All the other logical candidates ahead of him appear to be guards or really suspect big guys. I expect he would earn minutes right away. Who knows maybe Chandler's back spasms may last another 3 years.

JMO

I must admit I've totally discounted Johnson because of his age, but the Marion comp really opened my eyes. I absolutely adored the Matrix, and we could really, really use a guy like that. Hmmm...

Yeah, I suppose I'd like him as high as #12. More than Rabb and Davis... oh man. Maybe more than the other PFs on my board as well. He looks like he could play some SF as well due to that quick twitch of his. Sheezus... you've sold me. I want him.

I know there are questions on Johnson but he played 4 years in a great program for a great coach. This year I believe he averaged a double, double. He does not force shots and is a willing passer. What I like most is his athleticism and size. He is the type of player that is excelling in todays NBA. He appears to be able to guard multiple positions which is absolutely necessary. The midget ball we are tying to employ (Knight and Bledsoe as our starting back court with Tucker at the 3/4) is just not going to work. I agree with most everyone else, one or both of those guys really need to go. If Tucker is our starter at the three next year we really are a joke of a franchise. I also doubt that a plodding big man is going to work either (Alex Len/Tyson Chandler). Golden State is as it's best with Green (6'7") at center. San Antonio is as good as ever with Marcus Aldridge as their big. We were at our best with Amare at the 5 and Marion at the 4.

I do not think Johnson shoots many 3 pointers but I think he is capable of turning into a decent shooter from that range. He will need to add that to his game along with more strength once he arrives in the NBA. I view him as a poor man's Ingram. If somehow we could get both of them in this draft I would be very happy. If there is another player in the draft with similar skills to Johnson, I would welcome him with open arms. We need length and athleticism in the worst way.

I have been a supporter of McDonough but I really have my doubts at this point. He has tried to sell us on his moves but to be honest he has been horrible. Based on results, we have 3 over priced untradeable players in, Chandler, Knight and Bledsoe. Those have been his big free agent signings. We have the worst starting SF in the league. Only one of his draft picks appear to be worth a crap, Booker. Yeah, schools out on Len and Warren as well as Goodwin.

There I said it.

I am tired of hearing about all the options we have and how good McDonough has done in the draft, I want results.

He dumped the coach. If things do not get better soon, he is next.

[saintEscaton]

So I been thinking about Bender. Is there really a big difference between him and Jon Leuer?

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
Leuer -6' 10" 6' 11.5" 223 7' 0" 8' 9.5" 5.4 29.5 36.5
Bender-6' 11.5" 7' 0.5" 216 7' 2" 9' 3" NA 23.5 27.5

Both are pretty athletic but Bender seems faster getting up and down the court and Leuer can jump higher. They play a similar game which is more outside than an inside game. Bender doesnt have elite athleticism like Porzingas and doesnt shoot as well. Seems like he's getting alot of hype because of being the next euro big after Porzingas. I would expect him to have elite skills like a dirk or Pau but he doesnt. Hard to see him play next to Len when they are both lacking strength. I dont see Mcdonough having the patience for him to develop because if he doesnt improve the team now hes not gonna be around to witness it. Anyone remember Zarko Caparkaba? lol

Yeah I'm not really seeing the sky high upside everyone keeps raving about, his underwhelming measurables will limit him. Zingis will eventually transition to center because he plays like one, he is a legit Stretch 5 who can protect the rim and lock down the paint as an helpside enforcer. Bender doesn't have the length, explosiveness or finishing ability and looks like a lanky SF in a 7 footer's body shying away from contact. I think he eventually becomes a pick n' pop faceup threat with adequate three point range, but he doesn't really utilize ball screens or create for himself in the iso, he is defensively versatile though can step out switch onto guards and also hedge/recover.

[bwgood77]

So I been thinking about Bender. Is there really a big difference between him and Jon Leuer?

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
Leuer -6' 10" 6' 11.5" 223 7' 0" 8' 9.5" 5.4 29.5 36.5
Bender-6' 11.5" 7' 0.5" 216 7' 2" 9' 3" NA 23.5 27.5

Both are pretty athletic but Bender seems faster getting up and down the court and Leuer can jump higher. They play a similar game which is more outside than an inside game. Bender doesnt have elite athleticism like Porzingas and doesnt shoot as well. Seems like he's getting alot of hype because of being the next euro big after Porzingas. I would expect him to have elite skills like a dirk or Pau but he doesnt. Hard to see him play next to Len when they are both lacking strength. I dont see Mcdonough having the patience for him to develop because if he doesnt improve the team now hes not gonna be around to witness it. Anyone remember Zarko Caparkaba? lol

Yeah I'm not really seeing the sky high upside everyone keeps raving about, his underwhelming measurables will limit him. Zingis will eventually transition to center because he plays like one, he is a legit Stretch 5 who can protect the rim and lock down the paint as an helpside enforcer. Bender doesn't have the length, explosiveness or finishing ability and looks like a lanky SF in a 7 footer's body shying away from contact. I think he eventually becomes a pick n' pop faceup threat with adequate three point range, but he doesn't really utilize ball screens or create for himself in the iso, he is defensively versatile though can step out switch onto guards and also hedge/recover.

It's hard to be terribly high on Bender but the problem is that it's tough to be terribly high on anyone after the top two (given our team strengths, weaknesses and biggest needs), and I'm not even sure I'm as high on them as everyone. As prospects I like Dunn and Hield, but even if they were positions of need, 3rd seems awfully high to take them.

I think the upside argument for Bender is that he is so young and has many of the skill sets needed at a position of need.

As for people saying his hype is because of how well Bender has done, that's not really true because he was very highly ranked well before this season. I mention him back last summer on the first page of this thread.

If we are drafting 4, 5 or 6 though, I'll probably be fine with whoever it is..maybe the least enthused if it's Ellenson though. If it's Brown I'll just hope those really high on him are right.

[bwgood77]

This is my current mock as of today if anyone is interested and want to start checking some names, I projected the standings and order myself and the picks that are due or traded are already included in the Mock.

Mock Draft 2016

selects... Dragan Bender PF/C Croatia
selects... Ben Simmons SF/PF LSU
selects... Skal Labissiere PF/C Kentucky
selects... Brandon Ingram SF/PF Duke
selects... Jamal Murray PG/SG Kentucky
selects... Jaylen Brown SG/SF California
selects... Jakob Poeltl C Utah
selects... Ivan Rabb PF California
selects... Furkan Korkmaz SG/SF Turkey
selects... Kris Dunn PG Providence
selects... Henry Ellenson PF Marquette
selects... Damian Jones PF/C Vanderbilt
selects... Diamond Stone PF/C Maryland
selects... Stephen Zimmerman PF/C UNLV
selects... Melo Trimble PG/SG Maryland
selects... Malik Newman PG/SG Mississippi St.
selects... Justin Jackson SG/SF North Carolina
selects... Demetrius Jackson PG Notre Dame
selects... Caris LeVert SG/SF Michigan
selects... Cheick Diallo PF Kansas
selects... Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk SG/SFKansas
selects... Domantas Sabonis PF/C Gonzaga
selects... Taurean Prince SF/PF Baylor
selects... Nigel Hayes SF/PF Wisconsin
selects... Grayson Allen PG/SG Duke
selects... Egemen Guven PF/C Turkey
selects... Zhou Qi PF/C China
selects... Aleksandar Vezenkov SF/PF Bulgaria
selects... Troy Williams SF Indiana
selects... Juancho Hernangómez SF/PF Spain

Interesting to look back at your October mock. I guess Portland is a little better than you expected.

[Krush32]

So I been thinking about Bender. Is there really a big difference between him and Jon Leuer?

Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert
Leuer -6' 10" 6' 11.5" 223 7' 0" 8' 9.5" 5.4 29.5 36.5
Bender-6' 11.5" 7' 0.5" 216 7' 2" 9' 3" NA 23.5 27.5

Both are pretty athletic but Bender seems faster getting up and down the court and Leuer can jump higher. They play a similar game which is more outside than an inside game. Bender doesnt have elite athleticism like Porzingas and doesnt shoot as well. Seems like he's getting alot of hype because of being the next euro big after Porzingas. I would expect him to have elite skills like a dirk or Pau but he doesnt. Hard to see him play next to Len when they are both lacking strength. I dont see Mcdonough having the patience for him to develop because if he doesnt improve the team now hes not gonna be around to witness it. Anyone remember Zarko Caparkaba? lol

Yeah I'm not really seeing the sky high upside everyone keeps raving about, his underwhelming measurables will limit him. Zingis will eventually transition to center because he plays like one, he is a legit Stretch 5 who can protect the rim and lock down the paint as an helpside enforcer. Bender doesn't have the length, explosiveness or finishing ability and looks like a lanky SF in a 7 footer's body shying away from contact. I think he eventually becomes a pick n' pop faceup threat with adequate three point range, but he doesn't really utilize ball screens or create for himself in the iso, he is defensively versatile though can step out switch onto guards and also hedge/recover.

It's hard to be terribly high on Bender but the problem is that it's tough to be terribly high on anyone after the top two (given our team strengths, weaknesses and biggest needs), and I'm not even sure I'm as high on them as everyone. As prospects I like Dunn and Hield, but even if they were positions of need, 3rd seems awfully high to take them.

I think the upside argument for Bender is that he is so young and has many of the skill sets needed at a position of need.

As for people saying his hype is because of how well Bender has done, that's not really true because he was very highly ranked well before this season. I mention him back last summer on the first page of this thread.

If we are drafting 4, 5 or 6 though, I'll probably be fine with whoever it is..maybe the least enthused if it's Ellenson though. If it's Brown I'll just hope those really high on him are right.

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

[bwgood77]

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

Hield would be interesting. It really is crazy looking at how much his shooting improved from Jr to Sr year. Last year he shot 41.2% overall and 35.9% from 3 and this year he shot 50.4% overall and 46.5% from 3. That's just a crazy improvement.

What would your future rotation look like with Hield? Who do you want taking the most shots? You wouldn't want him handling the ball too much because he averages 3 turnovers a game against only 2 assists.

[Krush32]

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

Hield would be interesting. It really is crazy looking at how much his shooting improved from Jr to Sr year. Last year he shot 41.2% overall and 35.9% from 3 and this year he shot 50.4% overall and 46.5% from 3. That's just a crazy improvement.

What would your future rotation look like with Hield? Who do you want taking the most shots? You wouldn't want him handling the ball too much because he averages 3 turnovers a game against only 2 assists.

Future rotation would involve Knight somewhere else. I'd have Buddy as our 6th man and we would be able to ride whoever is hot that game. Booker showing his playmaking skills at pg makes us more versatile. The offense should be going thru Booker rather than Bledsoe dominating the ball most of the time. Imagine Book or Bled running the pick n roll with Buddy on the opposite wing ready to fire...instead of Tucker. That would improve our spacing soo much and and depending on matchups slide TJ in at the 4 and let him pick apart the lane with floaters.

Buddy wouldnt be a primary ball handler but he is pretty good running the pick n roll. He is pretty good at finding the open man when he doesnt have an open lane.

[bwgood77]

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

Hield would be interesting. It really is crazy looking at how much his shooting improved from Jr to Sr year. Last year he shot 41.2% overall and 35.9% from 3 and this year he shot 50.4% overall and 46.5% from 3. That's just a crazy improvement.

What would your future rotation look like with Hield? Who do you want taking the most shots? You wouldn't want him handling the ball too much because he averages 3 turnovers a game against only 2 assists.

Future rotation would involve Knight somewhere else. I'd have Buddy as our 6th man and we would be able to ride whoever is hot that game. Booker showing his playmaking skills at pg makes us more versatile. The offense should be going thru Booker rather than Bledsoe dominating the ball most of the time. Imagine Book or Bled running the pick n roll with Buddy on the opposite wing ready to fire...instead of Tucker. That would improve our spacing soo much and and depending on matchups slide TJ in at the 4 and let him pick apart the lane with floaters.

Buddy wouldnt be a primary ball handler but he is pretty good running the pick n roll. He is pretty good at finding the open man when he doesnt have an open lane.

In theory sounds great. I'm never against having more great shooting. That 46.5% clip on high volume this year in a major conference is huge. Oregon was easily the best team in the PAC12 too (beat Utah by like 31 in the PAC12 tourney final) and had a tough d.

[kennydorglas]

Hield isnt only a GREAT volume shooter
He's keeping this crazy high efficiency while also shooting in iso's/off dribble

This is so awesome. I think i'm definitely sold on him.

[jcsunsfan]

Hield isnt only a GREAT volume shooter
He's keeping this crazy high efficiency while also shooting in iso's/off dribble

This is so awesome. I think i'm definitely sold on him.

Yes. You look at him and see a guy that will score in the NBA. If he has enough athleticism and commitment to play good D he could go far.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Mulhollanddrive]

2 weeks ago nobody had a good thing to say about my Hield posts!

The caveat is that I thought Dangelo Russell was the next James Harden, so maybe flip a coin.

[bwgood77]

2 weeks ago nobody had a good thing to say about my Hield posts!

The caveat is that I thought Dangelo Russell was the next James Harden, so maybe flip a coin.

Yeah, just read this. You just never know. But he is a VERY HARD worker so that's a huge plus..

Can We Believe in Buddy?
By Jonathan Tjarks

When a player is on an NCAA tournament hot streak like the one Oklahoma’s Buddy Hield is on, NBA scouts have to ask if they can believe what they are seeing. In terms of predicting a pro career, success in March means nothing — for every Kemba Walker, there’s a Shabazz Napier fighting to stay in the league. So what are we really seeing with Buddy?

Hield is averaging 25.4 points per game, the highest scoring average by a player entering the Final Four since Georgia Tech’s Dennis Scott in 1990. Coming off a 37-point Elite Eight performance against the 1-seed Oregon Ducks on Saturday, his stock is so high that some are wondering whether the Sooners wing, projected as a second-rounder after his junior season, could go first in the upcoming NBA draft.

The question facing the scouts is simple: Whom has Buddy been beating to get these numbers? There aren’t a lot of great teams in this tournament, and there aren’t a lot of great prospects in this year’s draft class. Most of his peers — Hield is 22 years old — are already in the NBA.

Hield hasn’t faced great talent this season. He matched up with Villanova’s Josh Hart in nonconference play, and the best Big 12 competition he saw (aside from Baylor’s Taurean Prince, who was playing zone defense) came from Wesley Iwundu (Kansas State) and Wayne Selden Jr. (Kansas).

However, it’s not so much who is guarding Hield as it is whom he is guarding. The best way to slow down a scorer is to attack his legs on defense, and Hield hasn’t faced many players (or any) who can do that. In the NBA, it doesn’t matter how many points you can score if you’re giving them right back on the other end of the floor.

Hield has the physical tools to be a good defender. At 6-foot-4, 215 pounds, with a 6-foot-8 wingspan, he has prototypical 2-guard size. And while he’s not an elite athlete, he’s not going to get blown off the court.

The Sooners advancing to the Final Four gives scouts a chance to see Hield throw down against better competition. A win over Villanova (and another round with Hart) would mean a game against either North Carolina’s Justin Jackson or Syracuse’s Malachi Richardson and Michael Gbinije, all three of whom are 6-foot-6 (at least) NBA-caliber athletes with the ability to challenge Hield on both sides of the ball.

At the next level, everyone Hield will face will be as good (and likely better) as those guys. How he performs against his Final Four foes could be the truest predictor of how he’ll fare in the NBA.

Would post link to article, but I get it emailed as a newsletter...you can sign up to get the newsletter here though... http://theringer.com/

[Mulhollanddrive]

4th Year College Stats:

Buddy Hield: 25 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 50% FG
-----------------------------------------------
CJ McCollum: 23 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 49% FG
Damian Lillard: 24 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists 46% FG


The most interesting thing is the Portland roster 2 years ago:



Watson will be telling the FO he's seen it before.

[Frank Lee]

Haven't seen any interest in Brice Johnson of N Carolina on this board or in the media. Reminds me of a bigger version of The Matrix. If we don't get a shot at the top two guys I would consider him for our pick and surely would with the Washington pick. Quick leaper good shooter and very active. What's not to like?

All the other logical candidates ahead of him appear to be guards or really suspect big guys. I expect he would earn minutes right away. Who knows maybe Chandler's back spasms may last another 3 years.

JMO

.........

I have been a supporter of McDonough but I really have my doubts at this point. He has tried to sell us on his moves but to be honest he has been horrible. Based on results, we have 3 over priced untradeable players in, Chandler, Knight and Bledsoe. Those have been his big free agent signings. We have the worst starting SF in the league. Only one of his draft picks appear to be worth a crap, Booker. Yeah, schools out on Len and Warren as well as Goodwin.

There I said it.

I am tired of hearing about all the options we have and how good McDonough has done in the draft, I want results.

He dumped the coach. If things do not get better soon, he is next.

the Puff puffs....and it is duly noted

[Mulhollanddrive]

Interesting that Bender plays until May, so I really hope he makes himself a legitimate top 3-4 type pick.

Game on the weekend - 19 minutes / 8 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists

[AtheJ415]

Btw, does anyone realize Booker is our best PG on the roster? He's a better ball handler than Knight/Bledsoe and always makes the right pass. Idk if he can guard the opposing PG's especially the quicker ones. Hopefully we can find a way to trade Knight/Bledsoe this offseason. I prefer Bled over knight because of his defense.

Id love to see a backcourt of Booker, Heild, and Warren at times. Get 2 big men that are good at setting picks and let them all run off picks.

Anyone who thinks Booker today is a better PG than a healthy Bledsoe needs their heads examined. His assist numbers don't justify it. His overall numbers don't justify it. There's really nothing to justify it other than subjective criteria like "headiness" and "making the right pass." He gets 2.5 APG and 1.9 TOs, with a 15% assist percentage. Bledsoe this year had 6.5 APG, 3.7 TOs (that's a better a/to ratio than Booker), with 32.1% assist % (so yeah, over double Booker's numbers, and then when you factor in that Bledsoe IIRC was top 3 in the NBA in setting up open 3 point looks, well, that gets even more weight). Brandon Knight had, wait for it, 5.1 APG, 3.3 TOs (again better ratio than Booker), and a 24.9% assist percentage. Booker's passing numbers are actually more in line with great passing PFs than our current PGs. Tim Duncan as a rookie got 2.7 APG, with 13.7% Assist percentage. And he absolutely cannot guard PGs. He's bombing defensively against SGs. PGs in this league are on a different planet from the 2 guards.

Booker is not a PG. He's a 2 guard with solid playmaking skills. You can call him a smarter player than either if you want, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree at all, but being a smart player doesn't make you a PG. Pau Gasol is heady and he is not a PG. Neither is Tim Duncan, or really many other heady players. Booker has a long way to go when it comes to setting up others, particularly at the level to run PG full-time. It's fine. He's already good for a 2 guard at these skills, and that's his future position, but Bledsoe is far and away the better PG on both ends of the court. Not all smart guards are destined to be PGs, and not all should be PGs. Booker is not one of those who should be a PG imo. He's excelling as a 2 guard.