Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[Zonkerbl]

I know this isn't going anywhere but I'm just glad someone is standing up to the bullies in the GOP. Sometimes the act of standing up itself can be just as important as the outcome.

[Wizardspride]

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[Ruzious]

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Any chance that Bolton turns out to be the whistle blower? Have to check with the head writer for this crazy drama... called the Walking Doofuses.

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

I know this isn't going anywhere but I'm just glad someone is standing up to the bullies in the GOP. Sometimes the act of standing up itself can be just as important as the outcome.

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

[Pointgod]

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Steve Bannon’s favorite Democrat ladies and gentlemen. I’m not surprised considering Tulsi does have an affinity for dictators.

[Pointgod]

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Well this lends support to the idea that a large segment of Bernie’s popularity came from more of a dislike of Clinton and pretty much blows away the laughable idea that the DNC rigged the primaries. I saw a poll this morning that Bernie is tied wit Biden in California of all places. Not sure what he can do to get back on track.

[Zonkerbl]

I know this isn't going anywhere but I'm just glad someone is standing up to the bullies in the GOP. Sometimes the act of standing up itself can be just as important as the outcome.

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

I hate to be a cynic but it is way better for the dems for Trump to keep hiding the whistleblower report. The Dems have the solid fact that 1) it's a coverup and 2) Trump is breaking the law by blocking it. GOP can't defend either of those two things, but they can spin what's in the report itself - if they could just get to see it. Trump would be *insane* to keep blocking it but I hope he does. Just the very fact of blocking the report is an impeachable offense. Huge own goal by Trump.

[Kanyewest]

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Well this lends support to the idea that a large segment of Bernie’s popularity came from more of a dislike of Clinton and pretty much blows away the laughable idea that the DNC rigged the primaries. I saw a poll this morning that Bernie is tied wit Biden in California of all places. Not sure what he can do to get back on track.

It is still very early. Obama at this point around in the primary was down 20+ points. Bill Clinton was also down 20+ between January and June of 1991.

That being said, Sanders may have had a poor debate performance- he will have to do better in the October one. Also maybe there is more scrutiny with Warren as the front runner.

What I was seeing that Warren is winning the young female voters but Andrew Yang is winning the young male voters. Then again, I would be curious to see some actual election results.

[Zonkerbl]

Here's the transcript, for what it's worth:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764052120/read-transcript-of-president-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr

[Zonkerbl]

Here's the transcript, for what it's worth:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764052120/read-transcript-of-president-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr

Ukraine leader embarassingly obsequious, obviously knows what's going on with the $250 million aid package, begging Trump to tell him what it is he wants, he will do it, "we are friends." Mentions he stayed at Trump hotel, UGH. Trump immediately starts whining about Crowdstrike and Biden. Absolutely clear what's going on.

[gtn130]

The "transcript" is damning and a straightforward impeachable offense in its own right, but I really doubt this is the totality of the whistleblower complaint.

The whistleblower requested to speak with congress this week despite the Ukraine stuff being public record, which would indicate the whistleblower isn't satisfied with what's been released to the public. Taking a huge personal risk at this stage wouldn't make any sense unless there is still more information that needs to be communicated.

We also know the complaint involved multiple incidents over multiple weeks and involved a "promise" made by Trump that we still aren't aware of.

And Trump voluntarily releasing this? Seems very likely that this is the document that presents him in the best light, which is incredibly damning.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

These are all political plays. The Democrats needed impeachment hearings that would last into the presidential election and be a main thing. Starting them sooner wouldn't have really achieved that. Now the Republicans either have to dump Trump and play without any real incumbent presidential name recognition or go through the election with impeachment hanging over their candidate. I actually think this is a bit earlier than the Democrats would have liked to move on the issue but given that Trump/Russia (yes, Russia benefits a lot by strained American/Ukrainian relations) are clearly targeting Democratic candidates again, they probably figured they had to move.

As for the Republicans, it's in their interest to get this out of the way so it's a forgotten issue come election time, and the public has a very short memory. That's why you see the senate voting unanimously here. Obstructing things and drawing them out isn't in their interests right now. The senate won't allow Trump to be removed form office unless something goes horribly wrong (I wouldn't hold my breath) but they'll want to get things rolling to put the Democrats in a situation where things either rap up fast or they have to stall and look indecisive in the process. More than that, it also allows Republican senators to appear as though they're standing up to Trump when they really aren't. Russian bots are already out en masse trying to muddy the waters. Timing is key to everything here.

[Ruzious]

Here's the transcript, for what it's worth:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764052120/read-transcript-of-president-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr

Ukraine leader embarassingly obsequious, obviously knows what's going on with the $250 million aid package, begging Trump to tell him what it is he wants, he will do it, "we are friends." Mentions he stayed at Trump hotel, UGH. Trump immediately starts whining about Crowdstrike and Biden. Absolutely clear what's going on.

I can't imagine anyone of substance defends Trump on this - that should be it... but what should be doesn't seem to work anymore. We shouldn't even need the whistleblower report now. What do the folks at Fox have to say about it? I'm not going to count my chickens until the fat lady sings and Trump is impeached, but how could he not be? How could anyone not see what was going on there?

[Zonkerbl]

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

These are all political plays. The Democrats needed impeachment hearings that would last into the presidential election and be a main thing. Starting them sooner wouldn't have really achieved that. Now the Republicans either have to dump Trump and play without any real incumbent presidential name recognition or go through the election with impeachment hanging over their candidate. I actually think this is a bit earlier than the Democrats would have liked to move on the issue but given that Trump/Russia (yes, Russia benefits a lot by strained American/Ukrainian relations) are clearly targeting Democratic candidates again, they probably figured they had to move.

As for the Republicans, it's in their interest to get this out of the way so it's a forgotten issue come election time, and the public has a very short memory. That's why you see the senate voting unanimously here. Obstructing things and drawing them out isn't in their interests right now. The senate won't allow Trump to be removed form office unless something goes horribly wrong (I wouldn't hold my breath) but they'll want to get things rolling to put the Democrats in a situation where things either rap up fast or they have to stall and look indecisive in the process. More than that, it also allows Republican senators to appear as though they're standing up to Trump when they really aren't. Russian bots are already out en masse trying to muddy the waters. Timing is key to everything here.

I agree with all of this. I would add that the Dems have the option of saying "if you want this to be over quickly, get us Trump's tax returns"

They have leverage now, they should use it

[Pointgod]

I know this isn't going anywhere but I'm just glad someone is standing up to the bullies in the GOP. Sometimes the act of standing up itself can be just as important as the outcome.

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

I hate to be a cynic but it is way better for the dems for Trump to keep hiding the whistleblower report. The Dems have the solid fact that 1) it's a coverup and 2) Trump is breaking the law by blocking it. GOP can't defend either of those two things, but they can spin what's in the report itself - if they could just get to see it. Trump would be *insane* to keep blocking it but I hope he does. Just the very fact of blocking the report is an impeachable offense. Huge own goal by Trump.

The transcript isn’t the smoking gun because it’s not a verbatim account from the call. The only reason that Trump is releasing it is because he can control the narrative. The whistleblower complaint will be what nails him or not. Let’s put it this way imagine President Obama saying “Yes I asked a foreign country to investigate my political opponent”. Now imagine Bush or Clinton saying that. Imagine the **** if President Hillary Clinton said that! The crime has already been committed and admitted by Trump and drunk Uncle Rudy. The crazy thing is that this is only one of the many illegal things that we know about.

[Pointgod]

The "transcript" is damning and a straightforward impeachable offense in its own right, but I really doubt this is the totality of the whistleblower complaint.

The whistleblower requested to speak with congress this week despite the Ukraine stuff being public record, which would indicate the whistleblower isn't satisfied with what's been released to the public. Taking a huge personal risk at this stage wouldn't make any sense unless there is still more information that needs to be communicated.

We also know the complaint involved multiple incidents over multiple weeks and involved a "promise" made by Trump that we still aren't aware of.

And Trump voluntarily releasing this? Seems very likely that this is the document that presents him in the best light, which is incredibly damning.

I can definitely see how Magats and Fox News is going to spin this because he didn’t directly say “Hey give me dirt on Biden or I’ll deny you this aid seeee.” Yeah it doesn’t work like that. Trump directly asked a foreign President to investigate a political opponent and his son despite zero evidence, not only that he involved his personal attorney. If this was on the up and up he would have contacted the state department and justice department despite the fact that the claims are totally bogus. The timing of everything points to the conspiracy and extortion, it’s just so laughably obvious. It’s going to be nauseating seeing the talking heads on tv try to spin this as a win for Trump when anyone who has any sense of how Trump operates knows exactly what was going on.

[dobrojim]

Well this is going to force the GOP to put a line in the sand and defend their position backing Trump. The encouraging thing is that the Senate voted unanimously to see the whistleblower complaint so it seems that they aren’t 100% behind Trump on this. Democrats needed to do the right thing regardless of politics or popularity. Now let’s see if the American people follow suit and reward them for being on the right side of history.

These are all political plays. The Democrats needed impeachment hearings that would last into the presidential election and be a main thing. Starting them sooner wouldn't have really achieved that. Now the Republicans either have to dump Trump and play without any real incumbent presidential name recognition or go through the election with impeachment hanging over their candidate. I actually think this is a bit earlier than the Democrats would have liked to move on the issue but given that Trump/Russia (yes, Russia benefits a lot by strained American/Ukrainian relations) are clearly targeting Democratic candidates again, they probably figured they had to move.

As for the Republicans, it's in their interest to get this out of the way so it's a forgotten issue come election time, and the public has a very short memory. That's why you see the senate voting unanimously here. Obstructing things and drawing them out isn't in their interests right now. The senate won't allow Trump to be removed form office unless something goes horribly wrong (I wouldn't hold my breath) but they'll want to get things rolling to put the Democrats in a situation where things either rap up fast or they have to stall and look indecisive in the process. More than that, it also allows Republican senators to appear as though they're standing up to Trump when they really aren't. Russian bots are already out en masse trying to muddy the waters. Timing is key to everything here.

I agree with all of this. I would add that the Dems have the option of saying "if you want this to be over quickly, get us Trump's tax returns"

They have leverage now, they should use it

Putting all the investigative congressional committees on impeachment level should
aid in getting those stonewalls to oversight bulldozed away.

[pancakes3]

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