Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[Leslie Forman]

On D, for as much flak as he gets, he's actually OK, both by the eye test and by the numbers. Nothing special, but not a bottom of the league dreg like he was in previous years. He's actually the only "big" we have that can check both mid-post scorers like Randolph and AD and stick with smaller players without looking stuck in cement. Again, not elite there, but better than average should be OK.

I think I'm just gonna call Lauri "Yanny" from now on.

Some people really are watching a completely different player.

[ZOMG]

I wonder how different Lauri's Bulls career would have gone if Portis hadn't clocked Niko? It was obvious Niko was getting traded soon, but if BP would have stayed ahead of Lauri in the rotation until that point, maybe the expectations on Lauri don't go through the roof?

Or I could be crazy, and his problem would still be his fragility?

The expectations weren't caused by the fact that he was starting. Unlike PWill, Markkanen actually had a very good rookie season, particularly for a relatively unknown one-and-done big. Fastest in NBA history to 100 made 3pt shots, 33 points in MSG, All-Rookie First Team...

It was unfortunate. Lauri had that unicorn aura with him being a mobile, coordinated, 3pt shooting 7 footer. He was always going to be the starter for us by mid-season. It's a shame because, IMO, we would have been better off sticking with Niko.

I know Niko signed back in Europe, but I wonder if there would be a way to bring him back?

The man literally hates the NBA.

[khufure]

Lauri looks a lot like early career Zach... even stretching to his Bulls tenure. Not necessarily by style, obviously, but by the fact that he's incredibly talented, but hasn't been able to put it together.

And, it's obvious as daylight the Bulls botched, to put it mildly, his development.

I won't disagree the previous Bulls regimes have mangled. But at some point the onus is on the player to improve. I have heard many many times that Zach has a manic work ethic. And that is visible every year he's been here he has improved. And now this year he's broken through to all-star. I have never heard or seen anything similar with Lauri, except his bulk up year where he hit the gym. I can't think of a single move offensively that Lauri has learned on the court that he didn't have in his rookie year. What is he doing with his off-season time?

And that's not even the worst part. That's his offense. Lauri's a straight sieve on defense. When Lauri's on the court the team can't defend any pick & rolls or help defense. When it was WCJ and Lauri and Coby PG it made me pull out my hair, let's just call that formation a team cancer. You'd think a 7 foot PF that never help defends would be able to shot block or rebound a little but it's gone down per game (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01.html) instead of up. He's far below blocks at his position overall https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-block-per-game-by-a-power-forward rebounds https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-rebounds-per-game-by-a-power-forward and other metrics. Note your boy in his 30s Thaddeus Magicus Young is representing before Lauri. Yeah a 6'8" backup center blocking more shots than the Fin 7 foot hotrod. Probably cause 7' Lauri has 6'11" wingspan compared to 6'8" TY with 7'1" Wingspan. AKA alligator arms.

I wish it wasn't so but Lauri's getting worse instead of better in his early 20s. Zero improvement where it matters, especially in his weakest area defensively.

[MrSparkle]

Mount Rushmore:

Lauri-Doug-Wendell-Tyrus

I reckon if you merged all these guys' strengths in a tube, the resulting "super player" would still be left with bad BB IQ and mediocre handles, and poor defensive awareness. This new tube-baby would move up to the Rudy Gay - Harrison Barnes - Marvin Williams Mount Rushmore.

My biggest problem with Lauri is he just doesn't seem like an intelligent player. Fundamentals. Talent has never translated all that far in the NBA (size and shooting ability, even athleticism) if the fundamentals, IQ and awareness weren't there. Lauri is landing somewhere between Darko and Tim Thomas. He's obviously more coachable and personable than those guys, so he'll find an opportunity like McDermott did in Indiana. But those guys at their peak, they might've become salvageable starters for a few seasons, but hardly did they live up to draft expectations. I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile. Tough pill to swallow.

[chefo]

Mount Rushmore:

Lauri-Doug-Wendell-Tyrus

I reckon if you merged all these guys' strengths in a tube, the resulting "super player" would still be left with bad BB IQ and mediocre handles, and poor defensive awareness. This new tube-baby would move up to the Rudy Gay - Harrison Barnes - Marvin Williams Mount Rushmore.

My biggest problem with Lauri is he just doesn't seem like an intelligent player. Fundamentals. Talent has never translated all that far in the NBA (size and shooting ability, even athleticism) if the fundamentals, IQ and awareness weren't there. Lauri is landing somewhere between Darko and Tim Thomas. He's obviously more coachable and personable than those guys, so he'll find an opportunity like McDermott did in Indiana. But those guys at their peak, they might've become salvageable starters for a few seasons, but hardly did they live up to draft expectations. I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile. Tough pill to swallow.

Blast from the past... by the way, people give Darko a lot of shyte, and deservedly so, but when his head was screwed on straight, that dude was arguably one of the best defensive C's in the entire league--at 20, when the Magic got him. I don't know what went on with him, whether it was booze, or whatever, but something clearly went wrong with him between the ears.

Heard rumors back then (I knew Magic employees) that he had anger problems and the like, but man, that kid was just a physical specimen--he just dwarfed young Dwight, and that's not something many guys can say. And he could run well and move well, and when dialed in had a real nasty streak to him on D. You could tell, BTW, with him what kind of game you'll get from the moment he checked in to sub for Dwight. He was either focused that night or he wasn't. Much more often than not, he his head wasn't into it.

If Darko had better handlers and people to help him overcome whatever mental demons he had, he would have been a decent starter in the NBA for a decade because he wouldn't have remained stuck as the exact same player he was as a 17-year old. Still a disappointment, given where he was picked, but he didn't need to be an utter failure like he was. Which only shows you, when you're picking a teenager, you'd better know what's going on in their heads, as much as what their wingspan is and whatever.

[GoBlue72391]

I don't think there are that many Markkanen fan boys left.

Not every player can average 16-17ppg and 7 rpg. He's a good offensive player. I wouldn't be surprised if some other team will be willing to pay him some fairly serious money...I don't think AKME will. If they can get a 2nd rounder in a S&T, great. If not, we'll always have our mixed memories.

Looking back at it, that really strong performance in the 2017 Eurobasket probably did more harm than good for Lauri's career. Suddenly, the expectations were too high for a player who is more suited to be 2nd or 3rd option, and is somewhat injury prone.

Nah, it's the very specific month of February 2019 when he absolutely went off for 26/12 in 10 games. He only shot 35% from 3, but he went to the line almost 7 times per game and was generally just a very difficult player to guard. He was filling the "walking mismatch" role that everyone here thought he could be. Too fast and skilled for centers, too tall and big for PFs.

This is the part I struggle with. People like to brush that month off as a flash in the pan, but he did it without shooting unsustainably high percentages. If he had shot like 50% from 3 and 60% from the field, then yeah, it would be more than fair to write that off as merely a hot streak and nothing more. But that wasn't the case. He actually shot slightly worse from 3 that month than he did on the season as a whole.

The reason he had that crazy month is because he was doing things on a regular basis that we've only seen brief glimpses of since then. Getting to the line 7 times per game was a big part of it, but the fact that he was getting that many free throws is because he was being aggressive and not playing like a 3 point specialist. He was still shooting 3s, but he was also pushing the ball off defensive rebounds, attacking the basket with frequency, pulling up for the mid when he couldn't get all the way to the rim, shooting post fades over smaller defenders, and actually creating his own offense off the dribble.

He was an all around offensive weapon. There was nothing one dimensional about him. It wasn't just a hot shooting streak, which can happen to anyone. It was him doing things he IS capable of doing, but for whatever reason he chooses to NOT do them aside from the occasional flash here and there. FebruLauri is inside of him, but will it ever show itself more than just occasional flashes?

My worry is he'll go to some team like the Spurs or Celtics and become that player.

[Dieselbound&Down]

Mount Rushmore:

Lauri-Doug-Wendell-Tyrus

I reckon if you merged all these guys' strengths in a tube, the resulting "super player" would still be left with bad BB IQ and mediocre handles, and poor defensive awareness. This new tube-baby would move up to the Rudy Gay - Harrison Barnes - Marvin Williams Mount Rushmore.

My biggest problem with Lauri is he just doesn't seem like an intelligent player. Fundamentals. Talent has never translated all that far in the NBA (size and shooting ability, even athleticism) if the fundamentals, IQ and awareness weren't there. Lauri is landing somewhere between Darko and Tim Thomas. He's obviously more coachable and personable than those guys, so he'll find an opportunity like McDermott did in Indiana. But those guys at their peak, they might've become salvageable starters for a few seasons, but hardly did they live up to draft expectations. I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile. Tough pill to swallow.

Doug Thonus has a massive BBIQ. Not sure why he is getting pot-shotted here.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Nah, it's the very specific month of February 2019 when he absolutely went off for 26/12 in 10 games. He only shot 35% from 3, but he went to the line almost 7 times per game and was generally just a very difficult player to guard. He was filling the "walking mismatch" role that everyone here thought he could be. Too fast and skilled for centers, too tall and big for PFs.
This is the part I struggle with. People like to brush that month off as a flash in the pan, but he did it without shooting unsustainably high percentages. If he had shot like 50% from 3 and 60% from the field, then yeah, it would be more than fair to write that off as merely a hot streak and nothing more. But that wasn't the case. He actually shot slightly worse from 3 that month than he did on the season as a whole.

The reason he had that crazy month is because he was doing things on a regular basis that we've only seen brief glimpses of since then. Getting to the line 7 times per game was a big part of it, but the fact that he was getting that many free throws is because he was being aggressive and not playing like a 3 point specialist. He was still shooting 3s, but he was also pushing the ball off defensive rebounds, attacking the basket with frequency, pulling up for the mid when he couldn't get all the way to the rim, shooting post fades over smaller defenders, and actually creating his own offense off the dribble.

He was an all around offensive weapon. There was nothing one dimensional about him. It wasn't just a hot shooting streak, which can happen to anyone. It was him doing things he IS capable of doing, but for whatever reason he chooses to NOT do them aside from the occasional flash here and there. FebruLauri is inside of him, but will it ever show itself more than just occasional flashes?

My worry is he'll go to some team like the Spurs or Celtics and become that player.

[/quote]

I agree that is that's the tough part that frustrates me too. When he came into the league his first 2 years he was constantly using his size mismatch either to get to the paint or finish over smaller players. He really looked like a complete scorer that had all these parts to his game so that even when the jumper (which we agree is streaky) wasn't falling he had other ways to get going.

This year he has looked almost identical to last year to me with the exception he is hitting a few more open looks. The assists are a career low, the FTs are near his rookie year low and all the being a mismatch part of his game has seemingly vanished.

I am not sure if the league as a whole at the 4 and 5 positions have just gotten more athletic the last few years and that is why he is struggling? Or maybe teams have just figured out that his shot is really streaky so they are willing to give up wide open looks until he proves he can consistently make them pay?

[Leslie Forman]

$20million a year my ass. I do not see any way teams pay that for some Finnish BBQ chicken.

[TheGOATRises007]

He is so disappointing.

[WindyCityBorn]

Lauri is not even a starter. A big that plays no defense, doesn’t rebound and has very little offensive skill outside of streaky 3 point shooting. If continues this route I would immediately renounce him after the season and use that money towards Ball. No team will sign and trade us anything.

[Senor Chang]

I wonder how different Lauri's Bulls career would have gone if Portis hadn't clocked Niko? It was obvious Niko was getting traded soon, but if BP would have stayed ahead of Lauri in the rotation until that point, maybe the expectations on Lauri don't go through the roof?

Or I could be crazy, and his problem would still be his fragility?

The expectations weren't caused by the fact that he was starting. Unlike PWill, Markkanen actually had a very good rookie season, particularly for a relatively unknown one-and-done big. Fastest in NBA history to 100 made 3pt shots, 33 points in MSG, All-Rookie First Team...

It was unfortunate. Lauri had that unicorn aura with him being a mobile, coordinated, 3pt shooting 7 footer. He was always going to be the starter for us by mid-season. It's a shame because, IMO, we would have been better off sticking with Niko.

I know Niko signed back in Europe, but I wonder if there would be a way to bring him back?

Was FebruLauri even that much better than tank-busting Niko? before he was traded Niko was playing like a superstar. He even had the ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. Something Lauri simply fails to do because Lauri can barely dribble the ball.

[Pentele]

Was FebruLauri even that much better than tank-busting Niko? before he was traded Niko was playing like a superstar. He even had the ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the basket. Something Lauri simply fails to do because Lauri can barely dribble the ball.

What are you talking about? Before Niko was traded, he had practically the same number of 3P-attempts as Lauri now, but Lauri has more attempts near the basket.

[erlim]

The expectations weren't caused by the fact that he was starting. Unlike PWill, Markkanen actually had a very good rookie season, particularly for a relatively unknown one-and-done big. Fastest in NBA history to 100 made 3pt shots, 33 points in MSG, All-Rookie First Team...

It was unfortunate. Lauri had that unicorn aura with him being a mobile, coordinated, 3pt shooting 7 footer. He was always going to be the starter for us by mid-season. It's a shame because, IMO, we would have been better off sticking with Niko.

I know Niko signed back in Europe, but I wonder if there would be a way to bring him back?

The man literally hates the NBA.

It’s not that he hates the NBA, but he loves Europe/Spain. It’s like like not like he’s playing in the boofoo Chinese league. He’s the man on his team in a very competitive league.

[erlim]

Mount Rushmore:

Lauri-Doug-Wendell-Tyrus

I reckon if you merged all these guys' strengths in a tube, the resulting "super player" would still be left with bad BB IQ and mediocre handles, and poor defensive awareness. This new tube-baby would move up to the Rudy Gay - Harrison Barnes - Marvin Williams Mount Rushmore.

My biggest problem with Lauri is he just doesn't seem like an intelligent player. Fundamentals. Talent has never translated all that far in the NBA (size and shooting ability, even athleticism) if the fundamentals, IQ and awareness weren't there. Lauri is landing somewhere between Darko and Tim Thomas. He's obviously more coachable and personable than those guys, so he'll find an opportunity like McDermott did in Indiana. But those guys at their peak, they might've become salvageable starters for a few seasons, but hardly did they live up to draft expectations. I don't see a scenario here or there where Lauri becomes the "7-pick we thought he could be." If you remove his 3P ability, he's worse than Felicio by a mile. Tough pill to swallow.

Blast from the past... by the way, people give Darko a lot of shyte, and deservedly so, but when his head was screwed on straight, that dude was arguably one of the best defensive C's in the entire league--at 20, when the Magic got him. I don't know what went on with him, whether it was booze, or whatever, but something clearly went wrong with him between the ears.

Heard rumors back then (I knew Magic employees) that he had anger problems and the like, but man, that kid was just a physical specimen--he just dwarfed young Dwight, and that's not something many guys can say. And he could run well and move well, and when dialed in had a real nasty streak to him on D. You could tell, BTW, with him what kind of game you'll get from the moment he checked in to sub for Dwight. He was either focused that night or he wasn't. Much more often than not, he his head wasn't into it.

If Darko had better handlers and people to help him overcome whatever mental demons he had, he would have been a decent starter in the NBA for a decade because he wouldn't have remained stuck as the exact same player he was as a 17-year old. Still a disappointment, given where he was picked, but he didn't need to be an utter failure like he was. Which only shows you, when you're picking a teenager, you'd better know what's going on in their heads, as much as what their wingspan is and whatever.

I vividly remember picking up an ESPN magazine as a kid and reading that Darko was “Tim Duncan and Magic Johnson in one package.”

[HomoSapien]

Lauri looks a lot like early career Zach... even stretching to his Bulls tenure. Not necessarily by style, obviously, but by the fact that he's incredibly talented, but hasn't been able to put it together.

Ehh, I don't see the similarity. Zach more or less has improved every single year of his career. The only season that wouldn't be considered an improvement was the abbreviated season coming off his ACL injury. He has always given a reason to be optimistic. If we're being generous, then Lauri is basically the same player he was as a rookie. If we're being honest, Lauri's taken significant steps backwards during his last two years.

[sco]

Lauri moved out of starting line-up. Discuss.

[ZOMG]

Lauri moved out of starting line-up. Discuss.

What is there to discuss? I already read in the GT that even in his benched, marginalized and embarrassed form, Lauri still somehow managed to lose the game all by himself. :bigshrug:

People seem to be very happy - even giddy - to get rid of a 23-year-old 17/6 guy who's shooting 39% from the perimeter and has a 62TS%.

Several people were mad at him for not being able to stop Stephen Curry 1-on-1 on the perimeter. At 7 feet. Someone else said he's become "unplayable".

Hey, whatever floats your boat, I guess. I'm sure that when Lauri is finally gone and the Bulls have given Lonzo his $80 million dollar deal, everything will be OK and winning will ensue.

[Pentele]

Lauri moved out of starting line-up. Discuss.

The starting five is still completely dependent on how hot a shooting night they have. But I expect Vuc to bring stability to that, and there is a case to be made that Vuc and Lauri cannot coexist on the floor. It is probably for the best that Lauri moves to another team.

From now on I am advocating moving Lauri even if he would sign with the Bulls a minimum deal. I am personally tired of posters finding excuses for attributing the bulk of blame to Lauri while it is obvious that the flaws in the Bulls defense run much deeper than in a player that just played about 18 non-carbage minutes from the bench. When you have only a hammer everything starts to look like a nail: it is a very widespread notion here that everything is resolvable by making this or that roster move. The FO has now made a plenty, but the team still has to execute the defensive and offensive schemes well. Maybe they will in the future, but right now it is abundantly clear that practically everyone on the team fails defensively, including the newly formed starting line-up. The starters do not get magically better when Lauri hopefully leaves, they get better only through practicing defensive schemes that they are capable of executing.

[chefo]

Lauri moved out of starting line-up. Discuss.

What is there to discuss? I already read in the GT that even in his benched, marginalized and embarrassed form, Lauri still somehow managed to lose the game all by himself. :bigshrug:

People seem to be very happy - even giddy - to get rid of a 23-year-old 17/6 guy who's shooting 39% from the perimeter and has a 62TS%.

Several people were mad at him for not being able to stop Stephen Curry 1-on-1 on the perimeter. At 7 feet. Someone else said he's become "unplayable".

Hey, whatever floats your boat, I guess. I'm sure that when Lauri is finally gone and the Bulls have given Lonzo his $80 million dollar deal, everything will be OK and winning will ensue.

Lauri was the least of the Bulls problems, at least last night. He had 13 points on 9 shots and five or six boards in around 16-17 minutes, before garbage time at which point he mailed it in by chilling in the corner because coach D put him out there with the 3rd stringers. Even PaW got subbed out because the game was over.

I guess coach D is trying to make a point to him about something, and show him that he's currently in the dog house because sharing garbage time minutes with Shrek is about as close to a hoop "b!tch slap" as it gets.

Problem is, it's very difficult to make said points when a guy like PaW, who has royally stunk it up for the past quarter of a season on both ends, is left as a starter and you're benching you second/third leading scorer... at a time when your leading scorer is hobbled. These guys are not 5-year olds or idiots (well, most are not). Tough love only works if you spread it around equally and fairly, otherwise it only smells like biased favoritism. As I said, when Coby and WCJ were benched, PaW should have been as well... even maybe Lauri, back then. But to bench him after he and Vuc led that 27-point rally in the fourth against the Spurs where both played well just strikes me as punishing him at the wrong time.


P.S.
BTW, last night, here's how his shot distribution looked like:

Sets the team ran for him: 2/3 for 5 points
Just part of the flow: 3/5 for 8 points (should have been 9, as Dray hung on his arms on one of the layups, and it was as obvious as a foul as you'll ever see in any game)
One last second shot clock heave: 0/1

I get he's not Reggie Miller, and I get the game goes too fast and the team is nowhere near disciplined enough to go exclusively to him and Vuc like they should have, but when Zach is struggling because he's hobbled, anybody with above average hoop IQ should understand where the team was going to get our points next, including the coach. If anything, last night was the night to play Lauri 35 minutes, not 15 until garbage time and get him 20 shots (to go with 20 from Vuc) because you're not beating a hot shooting Dubs team otherwise.

My wife's a diehard Gator and coach D is almost a living legend here for his back-to-back championships, but sometimes I wonder it he really thinks through rotations on a game-by-game basis.