Official Trade Thread - Part XLI

[PaulinVA]

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[doclinkin]

Hey just saw this. Looks like we still have Gill and Homesley
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That means we have a ~$4m trade exception from that trade.
And an $8.45m one from the Russ trade.

[doclinkin]

Btw, to me this Siakam business is comedy. I'm not arguing with any -- certainly not with you, badinage -- I'm just thinking of it as funny. Especially given the intense desire to have Ujiri as our GM turning into him hornswoggling us into the being the destination for the player he needs to move in order to rebuild the Raps.

UNLESS! 3D chess playing Ujiri thinks Siakam will rehabilitate his suppressed value on a team with Beal. And he has traded to himself a secret weapon.

[80sballboy]

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[FAH1223]

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Good.

[Dat2U]

Siakam was the #2 option on a championship team. He has had his struggles as a #1 option since Kawhi left. Different roles can produce different results.

Sure. But, are you predicting anything at all about his future career? How good is he likely to be? Will he return to being the better player he was? Because, that is the important question here. The only one. The answer is simple: no, he won't.

If he's not forced to carry the weight as the number #1, it may make sense that he might see increased efficiency in a lesser role. That said, I agree he's expensive and I don't see a deal that Toronto would be willing to make.

[Ruzious]

Siakam was the #2 option on a championship team. He has had his struggles as a #1 option since Kawhi left. Different roles can produce different results.

Sure. But, are you predicting anything at all about his future career? How good is he likely to be? Will he return to being the better player he was? Because, that is the important question here. The only one. The answer is simple: no, he won't.

He'd shoot less but with much higher percentages - like he did before.

[prime1time]

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Good.

Curious, what would you do at pg would you just want to tear it down?

[nate33]

My new favorite idea is a Bertans for Sato trade (hat tip to Kanyewest).

If Chicago lands Lonzo Ball, they will be set at PG (Ball, White, Troy Brown Jr.) and won't really need Sato. Indeed, they may choose to pay the $5M to buy out his final year at $10M. If they use Markkanen as incentive to acquire Ball, they will be pretty thin at forward with a lack of catch-and-shoot guys, making Bertans a good fit.

For us, we clear our log jam at forward, add a PG and get towards a more balanced roster with a lot of two-way players who can shoot, pass and defend. The addition of Kispert and KCP render Bertans dead-eye shooting less essential. I'd rather play Kuzma or Avdija in that spot and get better defense and rebounding. The deal also clears up more cap room for next summer.

PG Sato/Holiday
SG Beal/KCP
SF Kispert/Kuzma
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Gafford/Harrell
End of Bench: Winston, Mathews, Todd, Bryant (still healing)

I like that team! Lots of ball-movement and shooting. Defensively, they're very switchable with no real defensive liabilities. (Early on, we will probably see KCP starting at SF and Kispert or Mathews as the backup SG)

[payitforward]

you haven't been here long enough, 9&20: I always want 6 rookies.

Every year I figure out how we can get them. Every year 1/2 of the guys mocked in R2 look terrific to me. Then, when once in a while one of them hits, I get to say, "see -- I told you so! -- I had him!"

Really it's just like Dat2U's many tiers -- only not as much work....

[mhd]

My new favorite idea is a Bertans for Sato trade (hat tip to Kanyewest).

If Chicago lands Lonzo Ball, they will be set at PG (Ball, White, Troy Brown Jr.) and won't really need Sato. Indeed, they may choose to pay the $5M to buy out his final year at $10M. If they use Markkanen as incentive to acquire Ball, they will be pretty thin at forward with a lack of catch-and-shoot guys, making Bertans a good fit.

For us, we clear our log jam at forward, add a PG and get towards a more balanced roster with a lot of two-way players who can shoot, pass and defend. The addition of Kispert and KCP render Bertans dead-eye shooting less essential. I'd rather play Kuzma or Avdija in that spot and get better defense and rebounding. The deal also clears up more cap room for next summer.

PG Sato/Holiday
SG Beal/KCP
SF Kispert/Kuzma
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Gafford/Harrell
End of Bench: Winston, Mathews, Todd, Bryant (still healing)

I like that team! Lots of ball-movement and shooting. Defensively, they're very switchable with no real defensive liabilities. (Early on, we will probably see KCP starting at SF and Kispert or Mathews as the backup SG)

Why not try and make it a 3-way get Rubio instead from Cleveland? The Cavs probably take Sato over Rubio as Sato is more comfortable coming off the bench (and allows them to start Garland and Sexton). Cabs also save roughly 7 million in salary. Rubio is better as a vet stop-gap (better at running an offense vs Sato).

[payitforward]

Sure. But, are you predicting anything at all about his future career? How good is he likely to be? Will he return to being the better player he was? Because, that is the important question here. The only one. The answer is simple: no, he won't.

If he's not forced to carry the weight as the number #1, it may make sense that he might see increased efficiency in a lesser role. That said, I agree he's expensive and I don't see a deal that Toronto would be willing to make.

He'd shoot less but with much higher percentages - like he did before.

Could be -- though I struggle to think of examples of that happening.

But, even in that case I don't much like it. I think he got overpaid -- partly b/c he was such a surprise & partly b/c being such a surprise the expectation was that he'd really become a star (i.e. at the Kawhi et. al. level). I just don't see that in him, i.e. a reason to think that.

In any case, it's an over-reach for this franchise right now. Turning Russ's contract into 3 players was a terrific result. Now we have to return to the path of getting better by increasing the number of guys on our roster who have real potential to improve. Add to & develop our young players.

The next thing we should try to do is move at least 2 of Kuzma, Harrell, KCP, & Bertans for younger players & picks. Stay on that path, & I'm pretty sure we'll at least get to the level Philly is at now. With good fortune, we'll do even better than that.

[payitforward]

My new favorite idea is a Bertans for Sato trade (hat tip to Kanyewest).

If Chicago lands Lonzo Ball, they will be set at PG (Ball, White, Troy Brown Jr.) and won't really need Sato. Indeed, they may choose to pay the $5M to buy out his final year at $10M. If they use Markkanen as incentive to acquire Ball, they will be pretty thin at forward with a lack of catch-and-shoot guys, making Bertans a good fit.

For us, we clear our log jam at forward, add a PG and get towards a more balanced roster with a lot of two-way players who can shoot, pass and defend. The addition of Kispert and KCP render Bertans dead-eye shooting less essential. I'd rather play Kuzma or Avdija in that spot and get better defense and rebounding. The deal also clears up more cap room for next summer.

PG Sato/Holiday
SG Beal/KCP
SF Kispert/Kuzma
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Gafford/Harrell
End of Bench: Winston, Mathews, Todd, Bryant (still healing)

I like that team! Lots of ball-movement and shooting. Defensively, they're very switchable with no real defensive liabilities. (Early on, we will probably see KCP starting at SF and Kispert or Mathews as the backup SG)

Love it -- & it's true, it really does work for everyone.

[TGW]

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Good.

Guess you’re not a fan of Dinwiddie?

[nate33]

My new favorite idea is a Bertans for Sato trade (hat tip to Kanyewest).

If Chicago lands Lonzo Ball, they will be set at PG (Ball, White, Troy Brown Jr.) and won't really need Sato. Indeed, they may choose to pay the $5M to buy out his final year at $10M. If they use Markkanen as incentive to acquire Ball, they will be pretty thin at forward with a lack of catch-and-shoot guys, making Bertans a good fit.

For us, we clear our log jam at forward, add a PG and get towards a more balanced roster with a lot of two-way players who can shoot, pass and defend. The addition of Kispert and KCP render Bertans dead-eye shooting less essential. I'd rather play Kuzma or Avdija in that spot and get better defense and rebounding. The deal also clears up more cap room for next summer.

PG Sato/Holiday
SG Beal/KCP
SF Kispert/Kuzma
PF Hachimura/Avdija
C Gafford/Harrell
End of Bench: Winston, Mathews, Todd, Bryant (still healing)

I like that team! Lots of ball-movement and shooting. Defensively, they're very switchable with no real defensive liabilities. (Early on, we will probably see KCP starting at SF and Kispert or Mathews as the backup SG)

Why not try and make it a 3-way get Rubio instead from Cleveland? The Cavs probably take Sato over Rubio as Sato is more comfortable coming off the bench (and allows them to start Garland and Sexton). Cabs also save roughly 7 million in salary. Rubio is better as a vet stop-gap (better at running an offense vs Sato).

I'd rather have Sato at $10M than Rubio at $18M. I actually think Sato is a better player. But I'd consider the Rubio thing as well.

[Dark Faze]

Hearing Lonzo to Hornets rumors. That might open up availability for Rozier, who is on an expiring contract.

I'd certainly like Rozier over SD, also nice that we can let him walk if he's a poor fit. I imagine the Hornets would like some real value though. I'd submit an offer of Harrell + ???.

[80sballboy]

Ok, so Hollinger of The Athletic had some pretty good nuggets about Brogdon and the Dinwiddie deal.
https://theathletic.com/2745940/2021/08/02/hollinger-as-nba-free-agency-opens-what-im-hearing-and-what-teams-actions-are-saying/

One other potential wrinkle on that swap: Washington could instead pursue Alex Caruso and stuff him into the deal as part of a sign-and-trade that generates a decent-sized trade exception for L.A. At least one source thinks Caruso is in the Wizards’ sights.

As for the Dinwiddie-Washington talk, one league source said it was pure vapor, while another insisted it was real but only if the Nets could dump Jordan (owed two years and nearly $20 million). Brooklyn would likely frown heavily on a Kuzma-Dinwiddie swap straight up, however, as Kuzma would cost the Nets $60 million this year once Brooklyn’s jaw-dropping luxury tax payments factor in.

All the moving parts to a potential Dinwiddie deal in Washington may necessitate the Wizards looking elsewhere. They will not start the season with the soon-to-be-acquired Aaron Holiday next to Bradley Beal. There’s some hum that the Wizards might have interest in Malcolm Brogdon as well.

Speaking of which, the Pacers are a dark horse in the Lonzo Ball sweepstakes if the Pelicans miss out on Lowry, as they could tempt New Orleans with a Brogdon-Ball swap. Brogdon’s name has bubbled up at other points in the last few weeks as well; keep an eye on this.

Another palatable option might be Dinwiddie signing with Oklahoma City (I’ve heard two years, $40 million thrown around). The Nets could then pay OKC with a draft pick to make it a sign-and-trade with a partial third year, which would give the Nets a $20 million trade exception. One thing is clear: Brooklyn will try to get something for Dinwiddie somehow.

[Shoe]

Hollinger says the TWolves are still interested in Kuzma. Culver + Okogie are expiring contracts and would add some guard depth.

[ghsermon]

Sadly you likely need to attach Rui or Deni in order to move Kuzma. I actually think Kuzma is a solid player who really was just not a good fit being on the alpha LeBron squad. He actually has rounded his game out a bit by becomming a better defender and rebounder in the past 2 years but he's plagued by streaky shooting and horrible decision making. The problem though is he's now developed a reputation around the league that makes his salary look far worse than it actually is. I actually think that you could build back his value by giving him consistent minutes and shots and having him average around 16 ppg. The only issue with that however is there is a bit of a log jam at the moment for minutes and presumbably you are going to give Rui the minutes that you otherwise would give Kuzma. Your best bet is to try to move Harrell. He has more value in the market as he's on a one year deal and is a proven offensive sparkplug. While he definitely would be a nice contributor on the Wizards given the current state no need to invest in him as he's definitely a one year rental like when you traded for Bobby Portis. The hope is you can maybe pair Trez with a future protected first to yield a starting point guard.

[nate33]

I posted about this in the Offseason Thread, but it probably makes sense to post here too:

We absorbed so much less salary than we gave out in the Westbrook trade that it allows us to take on a really lopsided salary differential if we expand that trade to a third party. By my calculations, we can absorb about $19.5M more than we send out. (Actually, it's $19.5 + 25% of whatever other contract we send out.) So, for example, if we wanted to trade Bertans ($16M) somewhere, we could take back a salary of 125% of $16M, plus 19.5M, so that would be a contract as large as $39.5M.

If nothing else, we should be able to use that flexibility to absorb a bad contract and buy a pick in the process. For example, if Chicago was planning to buy out Sato's final year at $5M, we could just offer to absorb Sato's contract into the Westbrook trade and take him off of Chicago's books, saving them $5M in the process (at the cost of a future 2nd, of course).

This option is only available until the Westbrook trade is finally consummated. They're waiting for the next season to begin with the updated salary structures because Kuzma's poison pill provision won't end until then.