Rui Hachimura

[Ruzious]

Rui is meh.

I'm gonna keep saying it until, hopefully, I'm proven wrong. He's a reliable scorer off the bench but nothing special. I do note, the Wizards TEND TO WIN when he plays 28 or more minutes, FWIW.

His midrange game is smooth. He's gotten better from 3. I think his on ball defense has gotten a lot better especially when he focuses.

Unfortunately, too many lapses defensively happen and he isn't much of a rebounder.

It's great that his 3 point % has gone up, but he still only makes 1 a game. It's gotta be a bigger part of his game, imo. He's gotta produce more. Again, he just had his 1st double double of the season and his first drawn charge of the season.

[pcbothwel]

He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

Lol...
Rui is shooting 37% from 3 and has a TS of 55%, both of which are better than anything Kuzma has done in his career.
Rui averages 50% more assist along with 40% less turnovers
Rui shoots 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3. All better than Kuzma
Rui has a FTAr of 39%, while Kuzma is done at an anemic 9%

Both are bad defensively, but Rui at least shows flashes.

If you cant see the offensive canvas Rui has to work with vs Kyle freaking Kuzma, then I cant help you.

And yet, they both have similar PERs. Anyway, color me unimpressed with Rui. There is nothing special about his game.

PER?!?... There are a few "catch all" metrics that people use... but PER is FAR and away one of the worst. Good luck with that

[JWizmentality]

Rui is meh.

I'm gonna keep saying it until, hopefully, I'm proven wrong. He's a reliable scorer off the bench but nothing special. I do note, the Wizards TEND TO WIN when he plays 28 or more minutes, FWIW.

Hey not everyone can be as good as Morris Almond am i right?

[payitforward]

55% TS while shooting 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3 is impressive....

Really? Please explain what is "impressive" about that. Thanks. (Btw, it's actually 35.5% from 3, but that's minor.)

Im seeing a guy, despite his poor rebounding and lack of awareness on defense, that can score from everywhere and never turns it over (AST:TOV of 2:1)....

Let's pull out what's real from the above: Rui's usage is just about average for an NBA 4, while his efg% is substantially below average for a 4. Those are facts. & "average" here doesn't mean "average starter," it means average of everybody playing minutes at the position.

On the other hand, in exactly the same way, Rui's extremely low turnover rate is also a fact -- a positive fact, a way in which he's above average.

Both of those facts are real. If what you want is an actual understanding of what or whom you are analyzing, you just accept the facts as they really are. The ones you like. & the ones you don't like too.

&, because these things all happen while playing one game, basketball, with one goal, to win, they are related -- so, in fact, 1 less turnover per 40 minutes is equivalent, almost exactly equivalent, to one more offensive rebound.

...I don't care if a guy can grab rebounds and shoot open 3's in the corner. His ceiling is limited....

Look... you cannot possibly be saying that if Rui was a better rebounder, or if he made corner 3's at a higher % than currently, that would mean his ceiling was limited. That would be ridiculous. If Rui starts doing those things better, will it make you worry about his future?

Obviously, it's good for any kind of shot to go in instead of missing, & rebounds are always good never bad.

So, I assume that you must mean if that is ALL a guy can do. But, of course, that's an artifice -- it's a picture you're drawing in your mind. There are many ways to impact a game, which you know as well as I. There have been players who impacted the game almost exclusively through their rebounding & others who did it almost exclusively through their shooting.

...Rui doesnt need to 'Expand' his game....

If you do something well, & it's something that affects outcomes, you are valuable through doing that. If you can also do something else, better yet. Oh, and another thing too? Great.

The more Rui expands his game the better player he'll be. Duh.

...He just needs to continue to let the game slow down a bit defensively and stay aggressive on offense....Again, He draws fouls, scores from everywhere, and rarely makes mistakes.

Rui has to get bette.. If you think he's going to be an outstanding player any other way... sorry, but no. You get better by doing things better. Improving things you do well, & improving things you do less well. Both. Now, having "the game slow down a bit" usually allows a player to get better, & to "expand his game," so... nothing wrong with your formulation.

OTOH, if you think Rui or any other guy who plays the 4 can average 6.75 boards per 40 minutes & have an outstanding career, I'd like to see one example. Just one would do. It's not possible, sorry.

[pcbothwel]

55% TS while shooting 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3 is impressive....

Really? Please explain what is "impressive" about that. Thanks. (Btw, it's actually 35.5% from 3, but that's minor.)

Im seeing a guy, despite his poor rebounding and lack of awareness on defense, that can score from everywhere and never turns it over (AST:TOV of 2:1)....

Let's pull out what's real from the above: Rui's usage is just about average for an NBA 4, while his efg% is substantially below average for a 4. Those are facts. & "average" here doesn't mean "average starter," it means average of everybody playing minutes at the position.

On the other hand, in exactly the same way, Rui's extremely low turnover rate is also a fact -- a positive fact, a way in which he's above average.

Both of those facts are real. If what you want is an actual understanding of what or whom you are analyzing, you just accept the facts as they really are. The ones you like. & the ones you don't like too.

&, because these things all happen while playing one game, basketball, with one goal, to win, they are related -- so, in fact, 1 less turnover per 40 minutes is equivalent, almost exactly equivalent, to one more offensive rebound.

...I don't care if a guy can grab rebounds and shoot open 3's in the corner. His ceiling is limited....

Look... you cannot possibly be saying that if Rui was a better rebounder, or if he made corner 3's at a higher % than currently, that would mean his ceiling was limited. That would be ridiculous. If Rui starts doing those things better, will it make you worry about his future?

Obviously, it's good for any kind of shot to go in instead of missing, & rebounds are always good never bad.

So, I assume that you must mean if that is ALL a guy can do. But, of course, that's an artifice -- it's a picture you're drawing in your mind. There are many ways to impact a game, which you know as well as I. There have been players who impacted the game almost exclusively through their rebounding & others who did it almost exclusively through their shooting.

...Rui doesnt need to 'Expand' his game....

If you do something well, & it's something that affects outcomes, you are valuable through doing that. If you can also do something else, better yet. Oh, and another thing too? Great.

The more Rui expands his game the better player he'll be. Duh.

...He just needs to continue to let the game slow down a bit defensively and stay aggressive on offense....Again, He draws fouls, scores from everywhere, and rarely makes mistakes.

Rui has to get bette.. If you think he's going to be an outstanding player any other way... sorry, but no. You get better by doing things better. Improving things you do well, & improving things you do less well. Both. Now, having "the game slow down a bit" usually allows a player to get better, & to "expand his game," so... nothing wrong with your formulation.

OTOH, if you think Rui or any other guy who plays the 4 can average 6.75 boards per 40 minutes & have an outstanding career, I'd like to see one example. Just one would do. It's not possible, sorry.

PIF... I've had this conversation with you a few times and it gets tiring. The discussion is not about historicals and what a player does at this moment. You do a good job of walking through what a player provides in retrospect/To date. To Date, Rui is a below average PF.
Im trying to project a player moving forward and what he will become.
If a player (Bonga is a good example) shows very little skill level or growth, but does a few things very well (Defense and corner 3's), then I have no doubt that player is a net positive on the court and should be welcome on any team. But where does that player go from there? Can he become a starter for longer minutes, with more ball handling and broader scoring skill set?

Its the Robert Covington discussion. Most metrics point(ed) to Covington being one of the top 25 players in the league in regards to wins/BPM. Because he was asked to excel in a narrow skill set of strong defense and hitting open corner 3's. But what did he really give to Minny? or Houston? Or Portland?

The fact that Rui can be a good scorer from multiple areas on the court shows promise for his offensive growth in years to come. The fact that he doesnt turn the ball over shows he values possessions.
We had this discussion about Ben Simmons and Jarrett Allen. A high TS doesnt mean you have a good scoring skill set, but simply you efficiently score on the shots you are asked to take within the context of the offense.

Its very childish of you to keep saying "Facts" and do basic arithmetic when people on this board ARE PROJECTING PLAYERS moving forward. Your argument is more suited for "Who played better last game/week/month/year?".
Collin Sexton, DeAndre Hunter, Brandon Ingram, Sabonis... All players that were terrible, Until they weren't. But how?

Take a look guys like Tatum in his 2nd year vs Rui. Keep in mind he played for an elite coach and franchise, but what did he do that stood out?
You have to look at what a player is asked to do and his skill set. Other wise the guys you mention above would below average to you as well. Those are Facts.

[payitforward]

He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

If you cant see the offensive canvas Rui has to work with vs Kyle freaking Kuzma, then I cant help you.

TGW can defend himself, but if I were you I'd check my facts before being quite this arrogant.

Lol...
Rui is shooting 37% from 3 and has a TS of 55%, both of which are better than anything Kuzma has done in his career....

Really? Isn't that odd? Since
Kyle Kuzma is shooting over 39% on 3's -- & that's on over twice as many attempts too.

Not to mention that Rui is at 35.5% not 37%.

Doesn't it bother you to post untrue crap like this? When 30 seconds of research would let you post the truth? & you could still defend the idea that Rui is the better scorer? & yes that is b/c Rui gets to the line 4 times as often as Kuzma.

Not that either of them is any good. Rui's TS% is 55%. Kuzma's is 54.3% They're each below average for their position. OTOH, Rui is higher usage than Kuzma, so that difference is in effect a little greater. Still not much -- nothing to brag about, that's for sure!

Rui averages 50% more assist along with 40% less turnovers.

I don't remember you ever cherry-picking so egregiously. Hope you stop soon. Kyle Kuzma averages 35% more defensive rebounds & 40% more offensive boards -- -- & he's a combo forward. He also blocks 4 times as many shots.

Truth is... to date in their careers, these are a couple of meh players. The important difference is that Kyle Kuzma is 25. He's actually having a pretty good season -- a lot better than Rui's -- but he's in his 4th year, so you'd expect him to be starting to reach his ceiling. Right now he's a fair amount better than Rui, but so what?

[pcbothwel]

Kyle Kuzma is shooting over 39% on 3's -- & that's on over twice as many attempts too.

Not to mention that Rui is at 35.5% not 37%.

Doesn't it bother you to post untrue crap like this? When 30 seconds of research would let you post the truth? & you could still defend the idea that Rui is the better scorer? & yes that is b/c Rui gets to the line 4 times as often as Kuzma.

Im done with you.
https://stathead.com/tiny/GppbH

Read the stats. Kuzma has shot 1,244 3's in his career at a 33% rate. That is trash for a stretch forward. This year he is shooting 37%, but we'll see if that holds.
Rui, on low volume, is shooting 37% as well this year. Again, you're wrong.
Doesn't it bother you to post untrue crap like this? When 30 seconds of research would let you post the truth? &

Rui is 3 years younger, a better athlete & frame, more efficient, more assist, less turnovers, with a more diverse shooting profile... what in the sam hell is your deal?

[Ruzious]

As final arbiter of the discussion, there's not a significant difference between Rui and Kuzma as players, and Kuzma's about 3 years older and has the advantage of playing with 2 all-time greats.

[wall_glizzy]

This has happened before - pcbothwel is using basketball reference (or some other up-to-date site) and PIF, for whatever reason, is using Box Score Geeks, which updates less frequently. Check the minutes played count for Rui, or presumably any other player that's played in the last few days - 343 on Box Score Geeks, 402 on BBREF. The former has the 35.5 3P%, the latter 37.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Rui is meh.

I'm gonna keep saying it until, hopefully, I'm proven wrong. He's a reliable scorer off the bench but nothing special. I do note, the Wizards TEND TO WIN when he plays 28 or more minutes, FWIW.

Hey not everyone can be as good as Morris Almond am i right?

They are about the same talent level, just scorers and not special.

[jangles86]

Kuzma on any other team apart from lakers right now would be copping a lot of trash. He’s not someone you rely on. Rui is a far more developed player already and hasn’t had a decent big man to be paired with yet.

[nate33]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

[jangles86]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

What was the Wizards record when Wall and Rui played together...

[nate33]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

What was the Wizards record when Wall and Rui played together...

I don't understand your point.

[jangles86]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

What was the Wizards record when Wall and Rui played together...

I don't understand your point.

Rui was drafted with Wall as the teams PG and it was never given an opportunity to be seen what could have been.

[Halcyon]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

I knew the record was respectable with Rui playing, but damn, that stat without Westbrook is...crazy. Rui does seem like a guy who needs the ball a decent amount to be effective. Same for Deni, though he's played ok as a spot up shooter.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

2-13 with tank commander Westbrook.

Rui cannot counterbalance that.

[payitforward]

I understand that you're trying to project Rui, pcbothwei -- not making any great claims for his current level of play. Fair enough.

Kuzma isn't a good player. He wasn't nearly as good a prospect as Rui coming out of college. I wouldn't have taken Rui #9 in the draft -- but I wouldn't have taken Kuzma at #27, which is where he went! He also doesn't have nearly as high a ceiling as Rui.

In fact, there's no particular reason to compare them. Yet, the fact is that Kuzma is much improved this year over his first 3 years in the league does, or at least should, remind us that guys can take a while.

There's no particular reason to come to judgment on Rui -- & certainly not to throw in the towel! -- just because he hasn't been particularly good yet. As someone pointed out, he's only played 60+ NBA games. At the same time, there's little point in trying to claim that somehow he has been good.

Rui Hachimura is not a good NBA player right now. Maybe he will be. I hope he will be. But nothing is gained, nothing is changed, by claiming that, somehow, he really is good.

[nate33]

The Wizards are 0-7 when Hachimura doesn't play.
The Wizards are 6-8 when Hachimura plays.
The Wizards are 4-1 when Hachimura plays and Westbrook doesn't.

I knew the record was respectable with Rui playing, but damn, that stat without Westbrook is...crazy. Rui does seem like a guy who needs the ball a decent amount to be effective. Same for Deni, though he's played ok as a spot up shooter.

I think it's just the combination of two relatively unrelated issues.

1. The team is better when Westbrook doesn't play.
2. The team is better with Hachimura. Not necessarily because Hachimura is great, but because they have no other natural PF on the roster who can reliably defend 4's without getting overpowered.

You put the two together, and you get the results I posted. I don't really think there's something specifically unique about Westbrook destroying Hachimura's production. Westbrook destroys everyone's production, mostly by turning the ball over and giving up fast breaks.

[prime1time]

Always king of shocking as too how much hate this guy gets. Like is the average NBA player good? Does the average drafted player work out? If all Rui amounts to is a solid scorer off the bench for a championship team, I'd be pleased. People in this thread talk about Kyle Kuzma like he's chopped liver. I really don't understand. As far as his game goes he continues to develop. It might sound weird but I'm pleased with the 1-5 from 3. Last year he passed up a lot of open 3's. This year he's taking them much quicker. Rui has shown considerable improvement with his shooting. He's both shooting a higher percentage and on more volume. I don't know what Rui will end up being, but all the tools are there for him to end up being a very solid basketball player.