2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Cock burnCook worm coffee Colburn

Classic!!

[DCZards]

Doc, I checked out some of the videos and scouting reports on Durate and I can see why you and others here are so high on him. Great length and a plus 3pt shooter. He’s also an excellent shotblocker for a G/SF and appears to be able to guard multiple positions.

Maybe the biggest knock on Durate is that he’s a mediocre passer and not very good at creating for himself and teammates. His inability to do those things well is a problem…at least from what I want and expect from a G/SF.

Durate is reportedly climbing up the draft boards and now appears certain to be drafted mid- to late-first round. I’d probably still take Butler over him but some of that might just be that I’ve seen a lot more of Butler and really like both his oncourt performance and the maturity/poise he’s displayed in big games.

[NatP4]

TO ME: Duarte reads as something of a hybrid of Klay Thompson and Bradley Beal. Not quite at the level of both, but in the conversation in a positive way. More ball-handling skills than Klay. Upgraded defense over Brad.

Duarte's a better athlete than the internet scouting reports suggest. Definitely a smart trade down target if he stays where the mocks have him.

100% agree. I’m not picking him at 15, simply because the guy is 24. He doesn’t have star upside either, which is fine.

Guarantees with Duarte:

1. Plus defender that can guard 1-3
2. Will fill up the stat sheet on low usage
3. Great leader/has all the intangibles
4. Will absolutely be a 60%+ TS guy

He could probably be plugged in immediately as a quality two way starter.

[NatP4]

Still think Butler and Duarte are NBA role players(good ones).

We should be targeting Giddey/Wagner even if it requires a small trade up.

It’s a total long shot, probably would never happen, but if Sheppard rolled the dice and traded Hachimura to one of the teams in the 10-15 range in exchange for their pick and selected both of Wagner/Giddey, it would drastically change the trajectory of the franchise.

My gut tells me Giddey is going to be a total star in the NBA....for another team.

[doclinkin]

My gut tells me Giddey is going to be a total star in the NBA....for another team.

That skilled at age 18 says yes his upside is at the top of the charts. At 6'8" he doesn't rebound or score with remarkable efficiency or volume. But with his instincts and advanced understanding of the game is ahead of many veterans, so he will puzzle out what he can do. He is not LaMelo, nor Doncic, nor Simmons among the tall PG's in the game. His game may resemble Melo more than most, but a notch lower in the kind of competitive arrogance that reads as stardom and earns extra benefit of the doubt from Refs. Still you have to figure Giddey will improve, the most likely place being his shooting. That sub 70% free throw percentage is not as bad in a 18 year old. That stat tends to get better with the grind, and as well his outside shot should prove stronger with hard work. For now though it is all an anomaly. He is a tall playmaker, but has some of the same deficits that benched Troy Brown for instance: who does he score against and how? He is an incomplete player without an NBA role right now. Still, yes, his upside is notable.

That said, as Doncic plays well, teams will look for The Next. With LaMelo succeeding out of the Aussie leagues teams are more willing to take the risk. Some mocks I see have Giddey in the top 10 with Jalen Johnson, Corey Kispert dropping out of the lotto.

[dckingsfan]

Thoughts on Corey Kispert? Asking for a friend

[dckingsfan]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

[doclinkin]

Thoughts on Corey Kispert? Asking for a friend

Joe Ingles. Joe Harris.

[NatP4]

Personally, I love Kispert’s effort and smarts. Was actually surprised at how competent he was defensively against big time competition in the tournament. Ingles, Korver, Harris, I would also throw Bertans in there. Really good high level shooting role player that plays super hard and has great IQ and intangibles.

[NatP4]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that.

There’s a big tier drop off after 15 IMO.

[pcbothwel]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that.

There’s a big tier drop off after 15 IMO.

My worry is from 15-23 you could see Duerte, Spinger, Butler, Garuba, and Jackson all go. Thats some real talent to bypass.
That said, getting two rookies while also adding only 1M in additional salary more than the 15th pick alone is enticing.

I think I would prefer to grab 18 & 35 from OKC or 19 & 32 from NYK if Wagner and Giddey arent there.

Hell, then trade 18 to HOU for 23 & 24.
23: Queta
24: Dosunmu
35: Murphy

Add a high IQ defender at all 3 levels.

[payitforward]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that. ...

...I think I would prefer to grab 18 & 35 from OKC or 19 & 32 from NYK if Wagner and Giddey arent there.

Hell, then trade 18 to HOU for 23 & 24....

Sure to all of this, only...

15 doesn't get you 23 & 24.
Thus, 18 certainly doesn't get you 23 & 24.
For that matter, 15 doesn't get you 18 & 35.
15 also doesn't get you 19 & 32.

But, I think 15 would probably bring 21 & 32 -- so a trade with the Knicks might still be possible -- if there's someone they want badly enough. & if so, maybe we would get them to throw in 58 as well.

According to the current nbadraftroom mock, that would get us:

#21 -- either Chris Duarte or Tre Mann
#32 -- one of Joel Ayayi, Charles Bassey, Kofi Cockburn or Miles McBride
#58 -- Filip Petrusev

Does that seem like a good haul? Say Duarte, Ayayi & Petrusev?

Or, we might be able to trade the #32 to OKC for the #36 & #55 (might be a little bit of a stretch). If so, it's Duarte or Mann, Bassey or McBride, just maybe Neemias Queta at #55, & Petrusev at 58.

How about that shovelful of talent: say, Duarte, Bassey, Queta & Petrusev. Maybe 1 too many bigs?

Then pick up Ruz's guy Sam Hauser undrafted -- & Julian Champagnie as well!

Six rookies: back to my same old ways....

But, it really doesn't seem far-fetched to pick up 3 very strong prospects: let's say Duarte, Bassey, & one of the lower options I've mentioned (Queta, Petrusev, Hauser, Champagnie -- for that matter, how about Matthew Hurt as another undrafted kid with potential? Yes? No?)

[NatP4]

Petrusev and Queta won’t be there in the 50s.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Anyone interested in Day-Ron Sharpe ?

It's hard to believe we were looking at top 5 and end up at 15....

[Dat2U]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that.

There’s a big tier drop off after 15 IMO.

Giddey not going 15 but looking at this draft I'm not trading down. There's some really solid players right in our range...guys that can be in a rotation. I'm not trading that opportunity to pick up a few deep bench guys.

[payitforward]

Petrusev and Queta won’t be there in the 50s.

I don't think so either, but that's the mock I was working with.

Still, there will be high value picks low in R2 -- there always are.

[payitforward]

One more question, do you swap 15 for 23&24?

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that.

There’s a big tier drop off after 15 IMO.

Giddey not going 15 but looking at this draft I'm not trading down. There's some really solid players right in our range...guys that can be in a rotation. I'm not trading that opportunity to pick up a few deep bench guys.

You may be right, but just for clarity: no one trades a potential "rotation" player for a couple of potential "deep bench" players.

Teams make those trades, because they think that by making such a trade they can get, say, 2 "guys that can be in a rotation" instead of 1 such guy.

They're not always right, because no one is always right in the draft no matter what they do. But if you think the "how good" curve either matches or even comes close to the "where picked" curve, you're not paying attention.

Pick a draft, any draft, & I'll be happy to demonstrate. Oh hell... how about last year? The #15 pick, which belonged to the Magic, is roughly-speaking tradable for the #26, #30 & #47 picks, all of which belonged to the Celtics.

The Magic picked Cole Anthony. If they'd had those 3 lower picks, they'd have been able to get Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, & say Paul Reed.

Or just trade the #15 to the Sixers for #21 & #34 & pick Tyrese Maxey & Xavier Tillman. Or would you rather have Cole Anthony?

Or just be lazy & trade #15 to the Kings for the ridiculously low return of #35 & #52, a trade literally no one in their right mind would make. Yet, in this draft, you'd get Xavier Tillman & Kenyon Martin Jr. Tillman is already a better NBA player than Cole Anthony, & I'd say Kenyon Martin is likely to be better than Anthony too.

[Ruzious]

A lot of mocks have Isaiah Todd from Ignite as a late 2nd rounder. He's not fully developed - physically or otherwise - but the raw potential is terrific - and he's got 3 point shooting range. Just not sure if/when he'll go from great athlete to great basketball player. Depends on his work ethic - really needs to add some muscle mass this offseason.

[Dat2U]

According to Tankathon, 15 gets you Josh Giddey, but 23&24 gets you Queta and Ayayi. If Giddey and Wagner were off the board, I would do that.

There’s a big tier drop off after 15 IMO.

Giddey not going 15 but looking at this draft I'm not trading down. There's some really solid players right in our range...guys that can be in a rotation. I'm not trading that opportunity to pick up a few deep bench guys.

You may be right, but just for clarity: no one trades a potential "rotation" player for a couple of potential "deep bench" players.

Teams make those trades, because they think that by making such a trade they can get, say, 2 "guys that can be in a rotation" instead of 1 such guy.

They're not always right, because no one is always right in the draft no matter what they do. But if you think the "how good" curve either matches or even comes close to the "where picked" curve, you're not paying attention.

Pick a draft, any draft, & I'll be happy to demonstrate. Oh hell... how about last year? The #15 pick, which belonged to the Magic, is roughly-speaking tradable for the #26, #30 & #47 picks, all of which belonged to the Celtics.

The Magic picked Cole Anthony. If they'd had those 3 lower picks, they'd have been able to get Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, & say Paul Reed.

Or just trade the #15 to the Sixers for #21 & #34 & pick Tyrese Maxey & Xavier Tillman. Or would you rather have Cole Anthony?

Or just be lazy & trade #15 to the Kings for the ridiculously low return of #35 & #52, a trade literally no one in their right mind would make. Yet, in this draft, you'd get Xavier Tillman & Kenyon Martin Jr. Tillman is already a better NBA player than Cole Anthony, & I'd say Kenyon Martin is likely to be better than Anthony too.

I had every player you mentioned but Kenyon Martin Jr & Paul Reed ranked higher than Cole Anthony on the last tier list I put on here. And I had Paul Reed only 3 spots lower than Anthony. So no I wouldn't have done what the Magic did.

I was screaming at my TV and on Twitter for the Wizards to trade up for Tillman in the 2nd round. I had a mid-first grade on him.

I screaming to draft Haliburton at 9 when he fell.

Don't discredit me or my draft record by suggesting I co-sign ANY draft decison made by the Orlando Magic front office.

That's the highest level of disrespect and I won't stand for it!

[Dat2U]

I'd have major issues with drafting a 24 year guard with the 15th pick or making him the target of a trade down. I just don't see it. Not saying he can't be a rotation guy but at his age, what you get is what your getting so he better damn well be NBA ready.