The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[SkyBill40]

Fultz is damaged goods. He might be serviceable to run the point to playcall and distribute, he cannot be counted on to score. His shot is still pretty broken and it's likely due to the damage he has in his shoulder that hasn't been corrected and might not be able to be resolved. He had a bright future ahead of him at one point; now he's just hanging on for dear life.

Jones could be an intriguing prospect for us. I'd rather have him than Morris.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Read on Twitter

If we were to cut Rodd in order to sign one of these guys, who would you prefer?

For me, I would look at it more for, who could we convince to hang on one additional Vet Min year so we could have early bird rights and keep longer term.
Maybe Precious? Though I expect him to return to NY
Tyus is just unlikely to stay long term, BUT, since we're in 'win-now' mode, it's worth a shot.

I thought we had one more spot? I really don’t care about long term. If you can get him for the vet min you do it.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

If we were to cut Rodd in order to sign one of these guys, who would you prefer?

For me, I would look at it more for, who could we convince to hang on one additional Vet Min year so we could have early bird rights and keep longer term.
Maybe Precious? Though I expect him to return to NY
Tyus is just unlikely to stay long term, BUT, since we're in 'win-now' mode, it's worth a shot.

I thought we had one more spot? I really don’t care about long term. If you can get him for the vet min you do it.

My guess is now that money is running out and these dudes who were expecting more than the vet min are still out there, their next priority will be playing time and competitiveness of the potential teams. They are likely focusing on rehabbing their value for next free agency.

With better than vet min guys like Tyus, he may just avoid us because the amount of playing time may not be where he wants it to be especially if we already have 2 high level ball handlers that will be starting (Beal/Book) who will also play a big role in the 2nd unit as well and then he'd be battling with Monte for those back up guard minutes.

If he's keen to join, dropping Roddy should be pretty easy

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

If we were to cut Rodd in order to sign one of these guys, who would you prefer?

For me, I would look at it more for, who could we convince to hang on one additional Vet Min year so we could have early bird rights and keep longer term.
Maybe Precious? Though I expect him to return to NY
Tyus is just unlikely to stay long term, BUT, since we're in 'win-now' mode, it's worth a shot.

I thought we had one more spot? I really don’t care about long term. If you can get him for the vet min you do it.

This is the tier of players that the 2nd apron rules really hurt.

At a minimum I think these guys should be getting like 6-8M per year but the 2nd apron teams obviously can't sign them for more than the minimum and the below apron teams would rather play their rookies than these vets.

Some good names in this list and JJ/Ishbia needs to convince some of these guys to take the minimum with a wink wink non written agreement that they will get more the following year. It also makes the Okogie signing worse if we don't have a roster spot open for one of these guys..

[sunskerr]

75% of the names on that list who "missed out" on a bigger contract are actually minimum level guys lol

[They_Them_Hatin]

Question, do we have any draft and stash players can send their rights to in a trade?

[garrick]

75% of the names on that list who "missed out" on a bigger contract are actually minimum level guys lol

Are you sure?

On this list the players I would not give more than the minimum are Jae and Marcus Morris and Dennis Smith Jr.

Out of this list if I had to choose two players I would take Tyus Jones who is a solid PG and Achiuwa but for Achiuwa I feel he would really hold out for more than the minimum so it would be very unlikely he would ever agree to take the minimum with us.

Tyus Jones
Markelle Fultz
Isaac Okoro (RFA)
Lonnie Walker
Luke Kennard
Precious Achiuwa
Speuncer Dinwiddie
Gordon Hayward
Jae Crowder
Marcus Morris
Dennis Smith Jr.
Robert Covington
Cedi Osman
Doug McDermott

[sunskerr]

75% of the names on that list who "missed out" on a bigger contract are actually minimum level guys lol

Are you sure?

On this list the players I would not give more than the minimum are Jae and Marcus Morris and Dennis Smith Jr.

Out of this list if I had to choose two players I would take Tyus Jones who is a solid PG and Achiuwa but for Achiuwa I feel he would really hold out for more than the minimum so it would be very unlikely he would ever agree to take the minimum with us.

Tyus Jones
Markelle Fultz
Isaac Okoro (RFA)
Lonnie Walker
Luke Kennard
Precious Achiuwa
Speuncer Dinwiddie
Gordon Hayward
Jae Crowder
Marcus Morris
Dennis Smith Jr.
Robert Covington
Cedi Osman
Doug McDermott

Im kinda exaggerating but the only non minimum guys there to me

Tyus Jones
Okoro
Achiuwa
DSJ
Kennard

And I would say in particular the last two (DSJ Kennard) are barely above min level that you'd want at like your 9th/10th guy in the rotation. Jones is fine as a backup, Okoro is a defensive wing with a pulse, and Achiuwa is fine as a quick center.

Not saying I would hate any of those 14 names on our team though, just that if you're expecting anything rotation level on a nightly (consistent) basis from most of those names you're going to be disappointed. And a key thing to realize here is I'm not saying they will for sure all suck and just be minimum contract level-impact guys, just that you should expect them to provide that kind of impact. Minimum level guys/end of bench players are more or less interchangeable impact wise and they have some variance year-to-year in terms of what you get out of them.

[Puff]

Ish has shown his willingness to break the bank for a good player. Sometimes he breaks the bank for players who really are not that good. Maybe not this year, due to restrictions. But if you are willing to come with us it would probably be a better pay day than the Euro League. Of course, I think his plan is to shut off the water in a couple of more years if we do not get the results, he is looking for. It could be interesting as to what we might due in the next couple of months.

Why is Tyus Jones still available?

[Saberestar]

75% of the names on that list who "missed out" on a bigger contract are actually minimum level guys lol

Are you sure?

On this list the players I would not give more than the minimum are Jae and Marcus Morris and Dennis Smith Jr.

Out of this list if I had to choose two players I would take Tyus Jones who is a solid PG and Achiuwa but for Achiuwa I feel he would really hold out for more than the minimum so it would be very unlikely he would ever agree to take the minimum with us.

Tyus Jones
Markelle Fultz
Isaac Okoro (RFA)
Lonnie Walker
Luke Kennard
Precious Achiuwa
Speuncer Dinwiddie
Gordon Hayward
Jae Crowder
Marcus Morris
Dennis Smith Jr.
Robert Covington
Cedi Osman
Doug McDermott

Hayward, Crowder, Marcus Morris, Covington and McDermott are absolutely minimum contract guys, all of them are close to retirement and some of them will not get any NBA offer.

Look at their numbers from last year, they are on their last legs.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Even if it’s not necessarily the greatest draft class, it’s still one of the very best ever in basketball history. The Suns were very fortunate to have two top 10 picks in this draft including the #1 overall and yet 5 years later and neither one of those players are on the roster

That’s why I laugh when people say basketball gods don’t like the Suns. Like no, the basketball gods have given the Suns PLENTY of opportunities. It’s the same stupid franchise that keeps shooting itself in the foot.

[thamadkant]

OG Anunoby's contract and the fact that better players ahead of him on the knicks are taking pay cuts smell of a future trade... in that case it would make sense why Knicks overpaid so they can match players they are targeting.

I know they like Booker. Maybe another player making around 40M somewhere. Karl Anthony Towns makes sense also. I mean, Knicks with Towns would fix their offensive needs. And Wolves with Anunoby, Gobert, Daniels, Edwards are an amazing balance team... especially since they have Nazr to fix the size issue.

[mkot]

I know KAT is always on the trade block because of his contract but you think they get out of the 2nd round without him? The main reason they can squeeze by the Nuggets is that they have three 7ft center to throw at Jokic. That roster is unsustainable though, no team has a backup center making $13M per, they will have to make a decision

[Mulhollanddrive]

James Jones make or break season surely.

[Frank Lee]

Good yes men are hard to find

[Sunsdeuce]

Not gonna lie, I was holding out hope that Ishbia was gonna be creative and open minded to TRULY upgrade the roster. I’m even less excited about this team than I was by mid season last year.

For any coach to be successful, regardless of what system they run, they have to have roster balance and roster flexibility. This roster has neither. Ishbia is asking Bud to go off roading with a slightly modified Mazda Miata. Could it be done, sure, will it work, no. And everyone knows it.

I’m gonna catch the games here and there but I have set the bench mark for this team very low so there is a chance I could be surprised.

I’m more looking forward to the end of the year to when we most surely blow this up. We have two players that play the exact same position (Booker and Beal), another player aging and playing out of position (KD), a center who can’t defend, no mobility, doesn’t shoot that well (from anywhere), has hands of stones, only one real McCoy PG who is on a minimum deal and has never been more than a decent role player, rookies with zero offensive skill sets, no POWER forward (talking actual Power forward, not a tweeter) on the roster.

Ishbia takes a large part of the blame but if you look back over the last 5 years this is an end result of the piss poor decisions Jones has made with every asset we have had and every draft we have had. Take out Ishbias trades out of the equation and look at the mess Jones has done. He doesn’t have a single rookie on a rookie deal that could have helped this team by either starting or coming off the bench that he personally drafted. No a single one. He left a mess for an over eager owner to get stars. Jones a just a criminal at this point.

[bigfoot]

Still a lot of James Jones hate and little recognition for what he has done for the franchise. Remember he was hired under Ryan McD for one year. The following year, McD was fired nine days before the season started and Jones was named "Interim GM" to pick up the pieces. Not counting that first year, he holds a 243-148 record (.622) as the GM of the Suns. At the time, the Suns sported a 10 year playoff drought and during his tenure the Suns have been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

Important moves we forget that turned around the team:

Trevor Ariza for Kelly Oubre
Firing Kokoskov and hiring Monty
Signing Rubio as a free agent
Unloading human trash in Josh Jackson
Trading Oubre and Rubio for Chris Paul

Also ...

Third NBA championship appearance
Almost certainly helped the league get rid of Sarver

Ryan McD, Sarver, Josh Jackson, and Ayton were ugly problems Jones inherited. He has helped immensely in the clean up of those messes. He is the right guy until this team is ready for a complete teardown in three years or more. Even then he deserves a shot at a rebuild.

[lilfishi22]

Recency bias is a real thing. Some people already think (after only 1 full season) that Ishbia is on par or worse than 2 decades of Sarver ownership

[garrick]

Still a lot of James Jones hate and little recognition for what he has done for the franchise. Remember he was hired under Ryan McD for one year. The following year, McD was fired nine days before the season started and Jones was named "Interim GM" to pick up the pieces. Not counting that first year, he holds a 243-148 record (.622) as the GM of the Suns. At the time, the Suns sported a 10 year playoff drought and during his tenure the Suns have been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

Important moves we forget that turned around the team:

Trevor Ariza for Kelly Oubre
Firing Kokoskov and hiring Monty
Signing Rubio as a free agent
Unloading human trash in Josh Jackson
Trading Oubre and Rubio for Chris Paul

Also ...

Third NBA championship appearance
Almost certainly helped the league get rid of Sarver

Ryan McD, Sarver, Josh Jackson, and Ayton were ugly problems Jones inherited. He has helped immensely in the clean up of those messes. He is the right guy until this team is ready for a complete teardown in three years or more. Even then he deserves a shot at a rebuild.

He deserves some credit for turning things around but he still deserves blame for sitting on his hands and not making moves to improve the roster after our finals run.

Some things he did very poorly are,

1. Gutting the scouting team because he thought scouting was overrated
2. Making a horrible pick with Jalen Smith.
3. Refusing to upgrade the PF and backup C position when it was clear Jae was not the long term answer at PF
4. Not getting a decent backup for CP3
5. Telling Jae to stay away from the team, then refusing trade offers for Rui or Grayson.

Simply put he got way too complacent and thought the roster didn't need any upgrading.

[bigfoot]

Still a lot of James Jones hate and little recognition for what he has done for the franchise. Remember he was hired under Ryan McD for one year. The following year, McD was fired nine days before the season started and Jones was named "Interim GM" to pick up the pieces. Not counting that first year, he holds a 243-148 record (.622) as the GM of the Suns. At the time, the Suns sported a 10 year playoff drought and during his tenure the Suns have been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

Important moves we forget that turned around the team:

Trevor Ariza for Kelly Oubre
Firing Kokoskov and hiring Monty
Signing Rubio as a free agent
Unloading human trash in Josh Jackson
Trading Oubre and Rubio for Chris Paul

Also ...

Third NBA championship appearance
Almost certainly helped the league get rid of Sarver

Ryan McD, Sarver, Josh Jackson, and Ayton were ugly problems Jones inherited. He has helped immensely in the clean up of those messes. He is the right guy until this team is ready for a complete teardown in three years or more. Even then he deserves a shot at a rebuild.

He deserves some credit for turning things around but he still deserves blame for sitting on his hands and not making moves to improve the roster after our finals run.

Some things he did very poorly are,

1. Gutting the scouting team because he thought scouting was overrated
2. Making a horrible pick with Jalen Smith.
3. Refusing to upgrade the PF and backup C position when it was clear Jae was not the long term answer at PF
4. Not getting a decent backup for CP3
5. Telling Jae to stay away from the team, then refusing trade offers for Rui or Grayson.

Simply put he got way too complacent and thought the roster didn't need any upgrading.

1. Really hard to fairly judge anything Jones did under Sarver in regards to scouting. Sarver was a cheap ass who disbanded the G-League team. That leads me to believe Sarver would be too cheap to pay for international and national scouts and probably expected evaluations to be done via video, at the combine, and bringing in players for workouts.

2. Jalen Smith is still in the league and just bagged a 3 year $27M/year contract. Cam Johnson and Toumani Camara were also Jones draft picks. He seems to pick solid rotational-to-starter level players. Contrast that with the picks he has given up in Culver and Day'Ron Sharpe. Certainly he overlooked Haliburton but so did 1/3 of the GMs in the league.

3 & 5. Crowder and Cam Johnson were the long term power forwards for the Suns. Ayton and Smith were meant to be the center rotation. Crowder holding out hurt the Suns who were already struggling with cap space. Not a lot could be done to replace Jae and honestly he hurt his career trajectory with that stupid move. Again all this happened under a cheap owner who didn't want to extend Crowder. Bottom line, Crowder and Sarver where the problems not Jones.

4. Cam Payne was an adequate backup. The real problem was repeated CP3 injuries during the playoffs.