2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread III

long range bomber · Post #1541 » by **long range bomber** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:26 pm

Is it me or is the Jackson/Tatum comparison similar to the Wiggins/Parker comparison for 3 years ago?

phiphan · Post #1542 » by **phiphan** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:27 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Wasn't Colangelo desperately trying to get Jaylen Brown last year on draft night? I recall Noel, Covington and both late firsts being offered.

So Ainge is sitting there holding onto two players that Colangelo obviously loves (Fultz and Brown).

We need to block Ainge's number from every phone in the building.

Colangelo was after Dunn, not Brown.

Kobblehead · Post #1543 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:36 pm

LloydFree wrote:I agree, Russell was better, but I haven't wanted to get into that argument.

As far as choosing between Fultz and Ball, I can see why people would prefer Fultz. Ball has a quirky game, that some think can't work. I don't agree, but I understand it. With Fultz and Jackson, I can't fathom how an NBA GM looks at those two players and chooses Fultz as the better talent.

Slick-shooting, scoring combo guards are all the rage.

Funny how Finals MVPs tend to usually be 2-way wings. Wade, Pierce, Kobe, LeBron, Kawhi, Iguodala...

I get the thinking of just taking the guy you think is the best player. For instance, Dlo is just a better player than Justise Winslow, regardless of their player archetype. But when you have a high level prospect like Josh Jackson that is also at an impactful archetypal position, it should be a no-brainer.

Kobblehead · Post #1544 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:40 pm

long range bomber wrote:Is it me or is the Jackson/Tatum comparison similar to the Wiggins/Parker comparison for 3 years ago?

Personally, I think the Jackson/Tatum debate is as unworthy as the Simmons/Ingram one.

The Wiggins/Parker debate was pretty justifiable, IMO. I was team Parker and feel pretty validated three years later.

Kobblehead · Post #1545 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:43 pm

In defense of people who were against Jabari Parker, even I gotta admit. Him going from just being fat-letic to arguably the most explosive F in the league was hard to predict.

Unbreakable99 · Post #1546 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu May 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Kobblehead wrote:In defense of people who were against Jabari Parker, even I gotta admit. Him going from just being fat-letic to arguably the most explosive F in the league was hard to predict.

Since you're talking about Parker how would you compare him to Tatum as prospects?

Kobblehead · Post #1547 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:02 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:Since you're talking about Parker how would you compare him to Tatum as prospects?

I think Tatum is a much safer pick than Jabari was coming out. Jabari had the higher upside, but there was quite a bit of bust potential with him.

76ciology · Post #1548 » by **76ciology** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:28 pm

Kobblehead wrote:In defense of people who were against Jabari Parker, even I gotta admit. Him going from just being fat-letic to arguably the most explosive F in the league was hard to predict.

Off a major knee injury!

LloydFree · Post #1549 » by **LloydFree** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:31 pm

long range bomber wrote:Is it me or is the Jackson/Tatum comparison similar to the Wiggins/Parker comparison for 3 years ago?

Not the same. Jackson can dribble the basketball.

76ciology · Post #1550 » by **76ciology** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:32 pm

I think Tatum is a safer prospect because of his defensive edge over Jabari. Until now I think Jabari is still finding his niche on D. Jabari's skillset for his size/length (9' standing reach; tough to neutralize) gives him more upside.

76ciology · Post #1551 » by **76ciology** » Thu May 18, 2017 4:33 pm

LloydFree wrote:
long range bomber wrote:Is it me or is the Jackson/Tatum comparison similar to the Wiggins/Parker comparison for 3 years ago?

Not the same. Jackson can dribble the basketball.

And much much better on read and react, which leads to assists and deflections. IQ is way higher

Kobblehead · Post #1552 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:06 pm

We talk about the cons of isolation scoring and speculate on defensive energy expenditure in regards to Tatum.

But those questions were tenfold with Jabari Parker. His upside was insane, though. Had even better scoring ability and had way better physical tools/athletic profile.

Kobblehead · Post #1553 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:09 pm

I actually think Jabari had a better defensive upside than Tatum. But he was far less likely to reach it, given his play style. High usage, iso players just do not manage their energy well enough to be consistent defenders. Those that do are a rare breed.

76ciology · Post #1554 » by **76ciology** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:26 pm

Upside. Jonathan Isaac or Josh Jackson?

Kobblehead · Post #1555 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:43 pm

76ciology wrote:Upside. Jonathan Isaac or Josh Jackson?

Based on reasonably expected outcome, Josh Jackson should be the more impactful player.

Josh Jackson reasonably projects as a 2-way, mid-to-high volume scorer that distributes.

Jonathan Isaac reasonably projects as a 2-way, low-to-mid volume scorer that rebounds and stretches the court.

If Isaac has an unexpected scoring volume spike, it could be close. Peak form Iguodala and peak form Rashard Lewis are pretty close to being equally impactful.

Unbreakable99 · Post #1556 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu May 18, 2017 5:57 pm

76ciology wrote:Upside. Jonathan Isaac or Josh Jackson?

That's tough to say. If each player reaches their peak then it could be Isaac. The only thing Isaac needs to do is become more aggressive and take more shots. His shot is about there. His defense is there. His handle needs to be better but as a PF or small ball 5 his handles don't need to be that tight. He needs to bulk up but what rookie doesn't? Jackson needs to become around a 37% 3 point shooter so players can respect him. Wade was never a good 3 point shooter though but he was more explosive. While Jackson is a good athlete I'm not sure he is explosive enough to be a top 5 player if he doesn't become an average 3 point shooter. His defense is there. His dog mentality is there.

Unbreakable99 · Post #1557 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:48 pm

Read on Twitter

PLO · Post #1558 » by **PLO** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:47 pm

Isaac has the highest upside and its not particularly close; Jackson's upside is quite limited; he's a solid prospect but likely not the two-way beast many of you are claiming he will be.

Mik317 · Post #1559 » by **Mik317** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:58 pm

PLO wrote:Isaac has the highest upside and its not particularly close; Jackson's upside is quite limited; he's a solid prospect but likely not the two-way beast many of you are claiming he will be.

If Jackson's jumper translates (meaning the 36-38% stuff is real), then he is the exact wing every team wishes they have. Butler, George and Hayward are guys people are looking to get and give maxes too. Hell dudes like KCP could be getting maxes too....

That type of player is highly sought after.

now the question of that happening is worth looking into tho.

Kobblehead · Post #1560 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:03 pm

I think it's highly likely that Jawun Evans is going to be a productive NBA player. My thing with him is that in order for me to want him to be my PG, he's gotta be Tim Hardaway and not just Ty Lawson. He's gotta be so freaking good offensively that I won't even care that he gets torched on the other end.