Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIII

[dckingsfan]

He didn't sign Burke, Marcus Thornton took the vet min, Andrew Nicholson is not on this team, Burke is an UFA. If he didn't sign Mahinmi, we would be looking for a backup center still.

Put all of this together and we would still have a pretty similar cap number. Most people have finally stopped posting about last offseason and started looking at moves to make this offseason.

He traded a 2nd rounder for Trey Burke, who didn't deserve a rookie salary contract (or wasting a 2nd rounder on him). Nicholson (who I didn't hate admittingly) was overpaid thus costing a 1st which could have possibly brought us an impact rookie... and Ian...is just awful. So while the cap ish was only really bogged down by Nicholson and Ian, getting rid of Nicholson cost us assets. Assets help build in the offseason. Seeing as how we are incapable of building now cause we lack assets... It is perfectly ok to ridicule the baboon who got us here.

a 2021 second, which is what it was for burke was an ok enough trade, we needed a back up pg and that was not a terrible trade, yes bruke played badly and didn't work out, but that's more on him playing badly and not the trade its self. again 6 mill a year for a back up PF is not a bad deal, Nicholson was given that contract and he was expected to live up to it, he did not, it was an ok enough gamble, it didn't pay off. Mahinmi when on the court has played well enough and done what he was signed to do, while over paid, he is not terrible (yes he needs traded imo but hes not a bad player). No one is defending EG, he should not have out bid himself with mahinmi, he should not have given Nicholson that long of a deal without proving himself further, and we should have cut bait with burke before we did. But **** happens, and I have no issues on using assets to fix the **** that happens. yes EG needs to do better, he might or might not, but dwelling on stuff we already know is not going to help. Time to start fixing the problem, not dwelling on the ones we know we have.

Basically - Checkers doesn't know how to evaluate talent - so it is always a "gamble". Mahinmi was overpaid - pure and simple and that restricts our flexibility.

Checkers needs to go...

[nuposse04]

I'm just tired of hearing about last offseason. I'm optimistic about this offseason. Despite the tim Frazier trade and not buying into the 2nd round like a cheap bastard

The problem is, I don't buy there is any reason to be optimistic with this FO EVER (at least with FA/drafts). You can be optimistic about internal player development but you don't stand on rational ground in defending eg's history.

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[NatP4]

Sounds like we should have the best offer now on PG with the Celtics not willing to part with assets. Blake Griffin can probably be had for cheap after the CP3 trade, Melo was rumored to be interested in forcing a trade to DC. Aldridge wants out of SAS.

Ernie needs to make something happen and get that missing piece this summer. We have a solid trade package that we can offer.

[Dark Faze]

gotta give morey credit--unlike this FO, morey doesn't give a damn about feelings or relationships, getting rid of damn near the whole team to switch things up

[nate33]

gotta give morey credit--unlike this FO, morey doesn't give a damn about feelings or relationships, getting rid of damn near the whole team to switch things up

Morey and Ainge are similar in this respect. It's a fine line. You don't want to fall so in love with your players that you're unable to objectively evaluate them in trades, but at the same time, you want your players to believe that you have at least some loyalty to them. You want them to be more than just mercenaries motivated by money.

[zardsfan]

Wizards Trade: Jason Smith, Tomas Satoransky & Chris McCullough to Detroit for Baban Marjanovic & Marcus Morris.

Markieff & Marcus could trade starts / scoring option off the bench, Baban could be our back-up center (Ian has to go in a seperate transaction of course)

[zardsfan]

Zards should forget about PG simply because he is a HUGE risk to bolt to LA (Lakers or Clippers) next year, regardless of what happens.
Should think outside the box and go after someone like JJ Reddick. Sell him on the idea of being a high usage 6th man. Bradley's handles improved a lot last year and with continued improvement he could take a lot of minutes as the back-up point guard.
Start John & Brad of course... bring in Reddick and move Brad to the 1 for a spell. Bring John back in to play with Reddick for a while and both John & Brad get some much needed rest and there is plenty of minutes for JJ who is always a scoring threat.

[WallToWall]

Zards should forget about PG simply because he is a HUGE risk to bolt to LA (Lakers or Clippers) next year, regardless of what happens.
Should think outside the box and go after someone like JJ Reddick. Sell him on the idea of being a high usage 6th man. Bradley's handles improved a lot last year and with continued improvement he could take a lot of minutes as the back-up point guard.
Start John & Brad of course... bring in Reddick and move Brad to the 1 for a spell. Bring John back in to play with Reddick for a while and both John & Brad get some much needed rest and there is plenty of minutes for JJ who is always a scoring threat.

I agree that he would be a good fit for us. Although I don't think Beal's handles are so improved that he can play PG, he can help bring the ball up once in a while. P

...and because what you describe is a good move, chances are that it will not happen.

Oh, and by the way, we still need to fill the same positions as last summer.

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[NatP4]

So you guys wouldn't dump Mahinmi and Smith plus a 1st rounder for Melo?

Then use the MLE to go sign a backup center like Taj Gibson or some defensive minded C

Wall Sato
Beal Mac
Porter Oubre
Melo Morris
Gortat Gibson(or some other free agent center)

[NatP4]

I'm not a fan of Melo at all, but he could get us buckets with the 2nd unit forsure and be a better stretch 4 than Morris shooting wise.

[gambitx777]

Wizards Trade: Jason Smith, Tomas Satoransky & Chris McCullough to Detroit for Baban Marjanovic & Marcus Morris.

Markieff & Marcus could trade starts / scoring option off the bench, Baban could be our back-up center (Ian has to go in a seperate transaction of course)

Bad trade Your giving up too much for a bench 4 and an immobile center.
I would do gortat, and frazier a 2018 second and Aaron white
for
Ish Smith, Morris, and stanley johnson.

Both morris and Johnson seem to be in the outs there. and Ish would be an amazing back up for wall.

Stanley johnson can compete with kelley and mac to back up porter and beal and Morris should be enough to back up his brother, Gortat is the offensive center option then need backing up drummand. tim works for them! id be willing to trade out tim for tomas but thats about it. Im not taking back BM cuz we can get a better version of him for a vet min deal.

[gambitx777]

So you guys wouldn't dump Mahinmi and Smith plus a 1st rounder for Melo?

Then use the MLE to go sign a backup center like Taj Gibson or some defensive minded C

Wall Sato
Beal Mac
Porter Oubre
Melo Morris
Gortat Gibson(or some other free agent center)

The issue come in when Melo has to drop his no trade clause and he has that peskey trade kicker, (which I think he can waive? )
Yeah if we can find a third team to take mahinmi and smith for a second and Aaron white (which is all we really have left to give.) I'd toss NYC a first for melo. Just because we also remove mahinmi. But its tricky for sure. also melo has to agree to come off the bench before any trade is made. No exceptions. I don't mind paying a 6th man 20 mill plus for a year or two as long as its not really setting us back much and its not it gets us out of mahinmi a year sooner. But, i would still going after aldridge, Deandre Jordan, blake griffin, and ryan anderson before im going after melo.

[NatP4]

So you guys wouldn't dump Mahinmi and Smith plus a 1st rounder for Melo?

Then use the MLE to go sign a backup center like Taj Gibson or some defensive minded C

Wall Sato
Beal Mac
Porter Oubre
Melo Morris
Gortat Gibson(or some other free agent center)

The issue come in when Melo has to drop his no trade clause and he has that peskey trade kicker, (which I think he can waive? )
Yeah if we can find a third team to take mahinmi and smith for a second and Aaron white (which is all we really have left to give.) I'd toss NYC a first for melo. Just because we also remove mahinmi. But its tricky for sure. also melo has to agree to come off the bench before any trade is made. No exceptions. I don't mind paying a 6th man 20 mill plus for a year or two as long as its not really setting us back much and its not it gets us out of mahinmi a year sooner. But, i would still going after aldridge, Deandre Jordan, blake griffin, and ryan anderson before im going after melo.

No Ryan Anderson please.

Agree that PG, DJ, and Blake should all be prioritized. Only way I want Melo is if we can dump bad contracts and only give up AT MOST, a 1st round pick. I think he could really do damage as a 3rd scoring option and Otto could continue to play as an elite role player.

Melo would have to start over Keef though.

[pcbothwel]

So you guys wouldn't dump Mahinmi and Smith plus a 1st rounder for Melo?

Then use the MLE to go sign a backup center like Taj Gibson or some defensive minded C

Wall Sato
Beal Mac
Porter Oubre
Melo Morris
Gortat Gibson(or some other free agent center)

We are just a bad fit with NYK. The only player that is considered a positive or neutral asset at this point is Mahinmi. Unfortunately, NYK already have Noah as an albatraoss of a contract, along with Porzingis, Hernangomez, KOQ who all play the 5.... So just a bad fit.

That said, I am no rush to pay to dump Mahinmi. His skill set is a perfect fit for our team and people are to caught up in the moment. Mozgov and Noah have really tainted the well and Mahinmi gets lumped in there.

For example, it appears that a player like Ryan Anderson is considered a neutral asset...yet Mahinmi is negative.

Contract: Both have 3 years left, yet Anderson makes 20% more

Ability: Mahinmi was hurt last year and was clearly having a down year... yet his RPM/BPM and WS/48 were still better than Anderson who was having his best year in the last 5. If we take 15/16 into account, its not close. Mahinmi is the better player.

Next 3 years: While Mahinmi is 1.5 years older, he hasnt had the severe back and knee issues that Anderson had. Also, High IQ defensive bigs age well.

Again, I think people are caught up in the moment. But I think Mahinmi becomes the defensive leader of this team and sets the tone this year. While very limited offensively, he will be efficient with some easy PnR buckets from Wall. Next Summer, he will have 2/31M on his contract and will be viewed quite different.

[NatP4]

That's some really nice insight PC, I think you just talked me out of that Melo/Mahinmi idea. Mahinmi was really good in 2015-2016. A huge bounce back year wouldn't surprise me

[Sluggerface]

So you guys wouldn't dump Mahinmi and Smith plus a 1st rounder for Melo?

Then use the MLE to go sign a backup center like Taj Gibson or some defensive minded C

Wall Sato
Beal Mac
Porter Oubre
Melo Morris
Gortat Gibson(or some other free agent center)

I would do it in a heartbeat, I just don't see who takes Mahinmi. Everyone and their mothers have capable long term centers under contract. You could try a team like Brooklyn, but they just took on Mozgov's contract, as well as eating Nicholson for us. Golden State is probably going to need a center if they lose Zaza, but Ian is probably too high of their asking price.

[Sluggerface]

Actually, now that Phil is gone, I don't see Melo leaving at all. He has no reason/urge to. He get to stay close to his son, collect a fat check, and not have to deal with Jackson's mind games. That contract is going to be impossible to move.

[gambitx777]

philly could in theory absorb his contract, I think im pretty sure anyway. If not it wouldn't take much going back. They get a legit vet star to pair with their young core, That might be the paly to be honest, maybe they send back someone else's first and covington or jsut covinton. ?

[payitforward]

I guess the way im looking at it is for melo or aldridge im not saying trade otto for them, or kelley. im saying, If your moving mahinmi for them, and keeping your core guys, they make your team better...

That's the problem, gambit. They don't.

At least Aldridge saves you a year of salary going forward. Well, Melo does too -- but you pay the same amount over a shorter term. & he really does put you in the tax territory.

But Mahinmi, if healthy, is a more productive player than either of those guys at this point in their careers.

Is he really though? What can mahinmi really give us that a vet min contract or a cheap short term flyer given to say Larry saunders, jeff withey, joffery loverange, Donatas Motiejunas, Tiago Splitter or Jan vesley can't give us? Like Mahinmi does not give us enough to justify that deal, and if you can get that off the books, add something you can use (melos scoring off the bench or aldridge in the starting line up and the subsiquent bench boost from benching either gortat or morris) and replace mahinmis poor health and minimal production with a vet min contract or short term flyer you do it and move on from the mistake. Aron Baynes would probably be cheaper.

I guess mind set of fixing this mistake, even if is just gets you an inch north of a lateral move in any kind of way, is better than keeping that mistake around.

Gambit, I may have to give up here. The fact that you equate Mahinmi & e.g. Vesely or Louvergne or even Larry Sanders (we don't even know if the guy can play at all at this point!) makes it hard to take you seriously.

I didn't like signing Mahinmi, but Melo or Aldridge wouldn't fix that mistake, it would just compound the error. Moreover, in the 555 minutes he played for us once he was healthy, Mahinmi was quite good.

Finally, if Mahinmi is a mistake at $16m, what is Melo at $26m?

In short, I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about.

[gambitx777]

That's the problem, gambit. They don't.

At least Aldridge saves you a year of salary going forward. Well, Melo does too -- but you pay the same amount over a shorter term. & he really does put you in the tax territory.

But Mahinmi, if healthy, is a more productive player than either of those guys at this point in their careers.

Is he really though? What can mahinmi really give us that a vet min contract or a cheap short term flyer given to say Larry saunders, jeff withey, joffery loverange, Donatas Motiejunas, Tiago Splitter or Jan vesley can't give us? Like Mahinmi does not give us enough to justify that deal, and if you can get that off the books, add something you can use (melos scoring off the bench or aldridge in the starting line up and the subsiquent bench boost from benching either gortat or morris) and replace mahinmis poor health and minimal production with a vet min contract or short term flyer you do it and move on from the mistake. Aron Baynes would probably be cheaper.

I guess mind set of fixing this mistake, even if is just gets you an inch north of a lateral move in any kind of way, is better than keeping that mistake around.

Gambit, I may have to give up here. The fact that you equate Mahinmi & e.g. Vesely or Louvergne or even Larry Sanders (we don't even know if the guy can play at all at this point!) makes it hard to take you seriously.

I didn't like signing Mahinmi, but Melo or Aldridge wouldn't fix that mistake, it would just compound the error. Moreover, in the 555 minutes he played for us once he was healthy, Mahinmi was quite good.

Finally, if Mahinmi is a mistake at $16m, what is Melo at $26m?

In short, I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about.

555 minutes pif thats the issue here. Charmelo has never had a season where he played less than a total of 937 minutes and aldridge has never played less than 1300 in a year. You are stuck on these notions that they are not good players any more. because they are declining, it gets us out of that contract sooner and give us something useful. We can replace 555 minutes of production off the street with a vet min deal. I'm not denying that mahinmi is good, he is. but what good is good if you can't keep him on the floor, and if you can use that to get something you can use, then you do it man. You can't go off months ago about how mahinmis contact if so awful its unmovable, then later go on and on about how good he is. You get caught up in these notions piff like there are only 12 good basketball players in the NBA and every one else is hot garbage. and once someone declines they are trash. Not the case. Its about value and making the best out of what you have.