2023 NBA Draft

[babyjax13]

From what I have seen of Whitmore he seems super limited on offense. Mainly a catch and shoot guy that sometimes attacks closeouts and cuts on the baseline. Plus he is probably a bit undersized to play the 4, which might be his best position.

Do you think the Thompson Twins wouldn't be able to average 12 points per game at the college level?

I think if Villanova had better ball movement, comparable to what they've had in years past, Whitmore would be averaging more than he is. If the question is, would either of the Thompson twins do better than Whitmore is in the same context, I think the answer is no. They are scoring 16ppg against high schoolers, I don't see why they'd do better against much better competition. Whitmore also has pretty dramatic home/away splits, so there is also a question of why that is the case.

ehhh, have you watched any of the OTE? I think it gets thought about in same breath as JBL from Ball Brothers route. There is legit probably 10+ guys playing in the league now that will wear an NBA jersey someday and I think only 8 teams.

For example: they played last night Rob Dillingham #8 prospect in country who is heading to Kentucky (he had a hot shooting game and scored 29 points) They played against a 6-11 240 lbs Somto Cyril #23 in 2024. Nas Cunningham #3 in 2024 who is 6-7.

Pretty good chance all three of those guys are first round picks in the next few years.

The Thompson twins aren't just some bums they had D1 offers to Alabama, Arizona, Auburn, Arizona State, Kansas etc..

I'm not saying they are bums, I'm saying that despite the fact that there are league-bound players there, the competition is obviously worse both because most of those players are less developed (physically and skill-wise) than the NCAA players they'd be facing if they were at the schools you mention. Amen, in particular, has also shown no development with his critical swing-skill: shooting.

I have watched to OTE games, I do not buy it as good preparation for college-age players looking to go to the NBA right now. Maybe in the future that will change.

[JMAC3]

I think if Villanova had better ball movement, comparable to what they've had in years past, Whitmore would be averaging more than he is. If the question is, would either of the Thompson twins do better than Whitmore is in the same context, I think the answer is no. They are scoring 16ppg against high schoolers, I don't see why they'd do better against much better competition. Whitmore also has pretty dramatic home/away splits, so there is also a question of why that is the case.

ehhh, have you watched any of the OTE? I think it gets thought about in same breath as JBL from Ball Brothers route. There is legit probably 10+ guys playing in the league now that will wear an NBA jersey someday and I think only 8 teams.

For example: they played last night Rob Dillingham #8 prospect in country who is heading to Kentucky (he had a hot shooting game and scored 29 points) They played against a 6-11 240 lbs Somto Cyril #23 in 2024. Nas Cunningham #3 in 2024 who is 6-7.

Pretty good chance all three of those guys are first round picks in the next few years.

The Thompson twins aren't just some bums they had D1 offers to Alabama, Arizona, Auburn, Arizona State, Kansas etc..

I'm not saying they are bums, I'm saying that despite the fact that there are league-bound players there, the competition is obviously worse both because most of those players are less developed (physically and skill-wise) than the NCAA players they'd be facing if they were at the schools you mention. Amen, in particular, has also shown no development with his critical swing-skill: shooting.

I have watched to OTE games, I do not buy it as good preparation for college-age players looking to go to the NBA right now. Maybe in the future that will change.

It definitely has more of an AAU feel to it, but the talent level is better than I think most people realize. As far as their scoring averages I think it could be much higher if they played more minutes. They are now 15-1 in the league have played fewer than 25 minutes in a decent number of games. Per 36 numbers are over 21 ppg.

The way they play now is very unstructured with a lot of fastbreaks, but there are times where you can see them run sets and they are able to capitalize on alley oop plays or three point shots. Both of Thompson's threes down the stretch yesterday were more set plays.

For instance, if they played for Kansas Self would be putting them in better half court spots instead of now where it is 5 guys starring at them clogging the paint. So I can see it from both angles. I tend to think the quality of shot they take would be a higher quality if surrounded by more talent and more spacing.

[babyjax13]

ehhh, have you watched any of the OTE? I think it gets thought about in same breath as JBL from Ball Brothers route. There is legit probably 10+ guys playing in the league now that will wear an NBA jersey someday and I think only 8 teams.

For example: they played last night Rob Dillingham #8 prospect in country who is heading to Kentucky (he had a hot shooting game and scored 29 points) They played against a 6-11 240 lbs Somto Cyril #23 in 2024. Nas Cunningham #3 in 2024 who is 6-7.

Pretty good chance all three of those guys are first round picks in the next few years.

The Thompson twins aren't just some bums they had D1 offers to Alabama, Arizona, Auburn, Arizona State, Kansas etc..

I'm not saying they are bums, I'm saying that despite the fact that there are league-bound players there, the competition is obviously worse both because most of those players are less developed (physically and skill-wise) than the NCAA players they'd be facing if they were at the schools you mention. Amen, in particular, has also shown no development with his critical swing-skill: shooting.

I have watched to OTE games, I do not buy it as good preparation for college-age players looking to go to the NBA right now. Maybe in the future that will change.

It definitely has more of an AAU feel to it, but the talent level is better than I think most people realize. As far as their scoring averages I think it could be much higher if they played more minutes. They are now 15-1 in the league have played fewer than 25 minutes in a decent number of games. Per 36 numbers are over 21 ppg.

The way they play now is very unstructured with a lot of fastbreaks, but there are times where you can see them run sets and they are able to capitalize on alley oop plays or three point shots. Both of Thompson's threes down the stretch yesterday were more set plays.

For instance, if they played for Kansas Self would be putting them in better half court spots instead of now where it is 5 guys starring at them clogging the paint. So I can see it from both angles. I tend to think the quality of shot they take would be a higher quality if surrounded by more talent and more spacing.

I think you have to give Cam the same benefit of the doubt, then, in terms of how the system Villanova is running just isn't working. So if they are both put in ideal contexts for their development in the NCAA, who looks better? I don't think the answer is obvious, but considering that Cam is playing against better competition, I have a bit more confidence in him, that's all. I don't think it is insane to suggest that the Thompson twins are better prospects - they might be, but they certainly *are* a harder eval.

[The-Power]

As Whitmore at this point is all potential due to his physical profile (one of the best attributes has actually been his on-ball defense), and George struggles to separate himself as either an elite scorer or a very good playmaker (making him more boom-or-bust), I'm currently settling more and more into my top 5.

1. Victor
2 & 3. Scoot & Miller
4 & 5. Black & Walker

And only then come George and Whitmore, plus Howard, Hendricks and possibly a couple others. Great top 3 and really solid top 5, but relatively underwhelming later in the lottery.

[tundraknight]

It’s a shame how much Whiteheads stock has dropped.

[The-Power]

How do you rank the following defensive wings and where would you be comfortable drafting them?

Kevin McCullar
Jaylen Clark
Kobe Johnson

[SeattleJazzFan]

It’s a shame how much Whiteheads stock has dropped.

even when he's looked good, it's due to his shooting looking incredible. hasn't ever done much off the bounce, and the most concerning thing to me is he hasn't looked explosive at the rim at all - which i thought was one of his greatest strengths coming out of montverde.

[Duke4life831]

It’s a shame how much Whiteheads stock has dropped.

even when he's looked good, it's due to his shooting looking incredible. hasn't ever done much off the bounce, and the most concerning thing to me is he hasn't looked explosive at the rim at all - which i thought was one of his greatest strengths coming out of montverde.

I honestly have no clue how to evaluate Dariq. I dont know if its because of the injury or what, he's been horrific with the ball in his hands overall this year. More turnovers than assists, he is shooting horrifically at the rim (45% not counting dunks, 47% overall) and only shooting 28% on his runners and floaters. While also only shooting 31% on jumpers inside the arc. Then also include how horrible he has been in transition as well (19th percentile for transition).

For the majority of the year I have been on the thought process of Jon has been misusing Dariq. Id say over the last month I have kind of changed my tune there. Every time Dariq has been given opportunities to do something either than catch and shoot it has been very hard to watch. Jon has basically just put him in the corner as a catch and shoot guy specifically for the last month and its been Dariq's best month.

But with all that said, I dont know how much of Dariq's ineffectiveness is because he banged up that foot and between rehabbing that, getting back in shape, then catching up with the speed of college basketball that part of his game just isnt ready to translate yet. I will say two negatives with him though that dont have to deal with his foot, his passing has been a lot worse than I expected and his handle is much more basic and higher than I expected.

But ya I am curious what a full offseason of being healthy and getting some of his explosion back will do for his overall game. Because that jumper from deep is money.

[The Moose]

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previous 3 games:
16/15/5
26/12/3
30/5/3

killing it, needs more 1st round buzz

[UnbelievablyRAW]

As Whitmore at this point is all potential due to his physical profile (one of the best attributes has actually been his on-ball defense), and George struggles to separate himself as either an elite scorer or a very good playmaker (making him more boom-or-bust), I'm currently settling more and more into my top 5.

1. Victor
2 & 3. Scoot & Miller
4 & 5. Black & Walker

And only then come George and Whitmore, plus Howard, Hendricks and possibly a couple others. Great top 3 and really solid top 5, but relatively underwhelming later in the lottery.

For weeks I've been trying to see why Whitmore is mocked so high. Its all potential because he really isn't doing anything special. Would only take him high in the lottery if I had a second pick (aka the Magic). If its my only lottery pick I'd be sweating if that who I took.

You'd have to pray your staff can develop him into a complete player because right now its just aggressive physicality and above average athleticism with mediocre shooting and ball handling.

[clyde21]

if someone can name drop a better off-ball guard/movement shooter to come out the draft recently do it, i certainly cant.

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[Chi town]

JFS looks like he could be a PG. That handle is elite. His body control is elite too. Hi stepback looks legit too.

Balled out against Purdue.

[BoyzNTheHood]

JFS looks like he could be a PG. That handle is elite. His body control is elite too. Hi stepback looks legit too.

Balled out against Purdue.

Jalen Hood-Schifino?

[Chi town]

JFS looks like he could be a PG. That handle is elite. His body control is elite too. Hi stepback looks legit too.

Balled out against Purdue.

Jalen Hood-Schifino?

Yep.

JHS. Lol

[clyde21]

how is Mintz still not being discussed as a lotto pick?

What kind of player are we looking at if he doesn't make a dramatic jump in his shooting ability? Which semi-successful NBA Lead Guards around his size are both inaccurate as well as low volume shooters from distance, and struggle with efficiency overall? Only Fultz?

just an update on this, but Mintz is now shooting over 35% from 3 in conference play and 11-21 over the last 9 games, also the first Cuse player since Melo (2003) to score at least 15 a pop in 9 straight games.

still a smaller sample size, but if his shooting is closer to what we've seen in conference play vs earlier in the season, then where does that leave him?

[clyde21]

Nick Smith floater game is on point

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[The-Power]

As Whitmore at this point is all potential due to his physical profile (one of the best attributes has actually been his on-ball defense), and George struggles to separate himself as either an elite scorer or a very good playmaker (making him more boom-or-bust), I'm currently settling more and more into my top 5.

1. Victor
2 & 3. Scoot & Miller
4 & 5. Black & Walker

And only then come George and Whitmore, plus Howard, Hendricks and possibly a couple others. Great top 3 and really solid top 5, but relatively underwhelming later in the lottery.

For weeks I've been trying to see why Whitmore is mocked so high. Its all potential because he really isn't doing anything special. Would only take him high in the lottery if I had a second pick (aka the Magic). If its my only lottery pick I'd be sweating if that who I took.

You'd have to pray your staff can develop him into a complete player because right now its just aggressive physicality and above average athleticism with mediocre shooting and ball handling.

I don't think developing into a ‘complete player’ is realistic, nor is it necessary. I think what you hope is that his shot becomes consistent (decent chance, especially once he takes only the good ones), he starts to make quicker decisions (it's painful right now, it's as if he feels like he has to pull off a meaningless dribble move every time on the perimeter before he decides what to do) and fully embraces a role as a glue guy (his effort has become more consistent as the season went on but his off-ball defense and hustle still leaves a lot to be desired).

Once he can do that, he'll be a very useful NBA player. Someone who defends well on the ball, can play in a switching scheme, puts pressure on the rim on cuts, in transition and on straight drives, and hits the open 3 consistently. I don't think it's realistic to hope that he develops into a consistent on-ball creator for himself and others. He not very reactive with his dribble (he mostly just uses some dribble combinations irrespective of whether they are indeed needed to create separation in that situation, and he doesn't really react to what defenders do; it looks very preconceived) and his playmaking leaves a ton to be desire (I'm not sure I've seen him make an advanced read all season long, and he regularly struggles to even have very simple passes be on point and on time). He can and will develop that to some degree but you need to be pretty awesome in those regards to be asked with creating on the ball in the NBA.

So at this point, I think you're not hoping for a star with Whitmore but a very solid starter in a mostly off-ball role. That's realistic, although still not a given. If he makes huge development steps in those areas you're obviously gladly taking it, but it shouldn't be an expectation and something you groom him for. If I was the FO/coach on the NBA team that drafts him, I'd tell him to embrace a limited on-ball role and show me that he can be an impactful player through playing tough defense and opportunistic scoring.

[916fan]

That "Jalen Wilson is as good as Keegan Murray" take is aging really bad haha.

Some people are straight up delusional.

Wilson isn't even better than Kris Murray this year.... absoutley no way he touches keegan as a prospect lmao.

[BostonCouchGM]

How do you rank the following defensive wings and where would you be comfortable drafting them?

Kevin McCullar
Jaylen Clark
Kobe Johnson

Early 2nd maybe? They should all end up being contributors at the next level

[The Moose]

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previous 3 games:
16/15/5
26/12/3
30/5/3

killing it, needs more 1st round buzz

so productive recently