Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[Undefeated]

I've been one of the biggest Lamb supporters & still think he's a good prospect, but if you watch clips of Lamb playing defense this past year & then watch clips of Barnes playing D, there is a big difference between the two.

Out of the four wing prospects, Lamb isn't known for his defense in contrast to Barnes, MKG and Beal. However, Lamb isn't a defensive sieve by any stretch of the imagination either. He's shown he can hold his own pretty well when he wants to. It's like his offense when he decides to mix it up almost resembling Kevin Durant when he doesn't settle for the long-range two-point shots. It's not like Lamb is flat-footed when he's playing defense, but at the same time, he's not that active on his feet. He plays on his toes, and that's why he's got the lateral quickness. Add that with his tremendous 6-11 wingspan, he doesn't need to pressure the ball much because he'll easily poke the ball out or deny space with his length and quickness when his man tries to attack him. If anything, I look at a prospects' defense in college with a grain of salt because some prospects who weren't known for their defense have go on to be difference makers defensively like O.J. Mayo for example. It's all about the right environment and coaching which the Raptors have.

[fredericklove]

Aight G

I'd prefer this though

[Rapture]

Exactly what we saw in those clips.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that tidbit because I already said that Lamb wasn't engaged consistently on the defensive end. BUT that was a result of how poor UConn was playing than Jeremy Lamb the player.

I agree, the defense as a whole looked completely disorganized.

Whoever created this series of clips may have been bias......who knows.

I've watched multiple clips of various prospects (defensively) & these are by far the worst.

I've been one of the biggest Lamb supporters & still think he's a good prospect, but if you watch clips of Lamb playing defense this past year & then watch clips of Barnes playing D, there is a big difference between the two.

When evaluating Lamb people seem to forget that he had absolutely NO HELP AT ALL at his position. This means that he had to play 37.2 minutes per game and if you don't count the blow outs where he got some rest, the number is almost 40. When you play this much you have to save your energy and to me this was one of the biggest reasons why he looked sometimes unassertive and even lazy defensively. Of course his effort level still leaves many questions about his mental toughness but IMO playing under Casey, in a lesser role (around 20-25 mpg), he'll look at least average and has potential to be a good defender.

[5DOM]

Exactly what we saw in those clips.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that tidbit because I already said that Lamb wasn't engaged consistently on the defensive end. BUT that was a result of how poor UConn was playing than Jeremy Lamb the player.

I agree, the defense as a whole looked completely disorganized.

Whoever created this series of clips may have been bias......who knows.

I've watched multiple clips of various prospects (defensively) & these are by far the worst.

I've been one of the biggest Lamb supporters & still think he's a good prospect, but if you watch clips of Lamb playing defense this past year & then watch clips of Barnes playing D, there is a big difference between the two.

Of the players I've seen regularly, only Aaron Craft is significantly better than everyone else at D. It's funny because Barnes is pretty inconsistent and average himself, and both his help D and man-to-man D (statistically) could use improvements. That's the problem with using the clips to analyse the players. Because some players - especially college players who play major minutes - are so inconsistent, depending on which game/play you look at, your opinion of the player could change drastically.

Also if you want to look at DX scouting report, it also does say:

"He appears to have solid lateral quickness and good intensity on this end of the court, which combined with his length provides a reasonable amount of intrigue on what he can ultimately become on this end of the court

which is pretty much what everyone saw in UCONN's championship run

[MEDIC]

I'll give it a go.

I have enjoyed much joviality at your expense, good sir. You've made claims to have personally viewed many of Jeremy Lamb's defensive efforts, and yet rely on the word of "experts' (from draft express) in order to back up your point in an internet thread. There's an expression about people like you, I shan't mention here.

LOL. That's perfect. Thanks.

[Marvin!]

Exactly what we saw in those clips.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that tidbit because I already said that Lamb wasn't engaged consistently on the defensive end. BUT that was a result of how poor UConn was playing than Jeremy Lamb the player.

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

see, i always kind of thought that the amount of effort a person gives to something is completely up to that person. I guess i was wrong.

[Marlo Stanfield]

The clip with Lamb's lack of defensive effort was from much of last year if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it's a low light clip so it shows only the bad defensive efforts for him. Still, he could be a horrid defender, but I'm just saying not to judge him based on a few minutes of clips from Youtube. And there's also the Casey factor; the man might buss a load once he sees Jeremy's length....pause.

[MEDIC]

Uggghhh.

Just watched more footage of Lamb on the offensive side of the ball. Totally drawn to this guy as a player. He's the most interesting prospect in this draft for me.

If we do draft him, I hope Casey can draw that intensity out of him. He needs to come out of his shell. It might be something as simple as adding a little more bulk/ strength to get that confidence up.

[MEDIC]

Exactly what we saw in those clips.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that tidbit because I already said that Lamb wasn't engaged consistently on the defensive end. BUT that was a result of how poor UConn was playing than Jeremy Lamb the player.

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

see, i always kind of thought that the amount of effort a person gives to something is completely up to that person. I guess i was wrong.

I know.....sounds like we're talking about Bargs all over again...

[fatal9]

Really didn't like watching this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F2ZGqXYnbc&list=UUtA1fanU-infOsCodhDiroA&index=290&feature=plpp_video[/youtube]

Still an interesting prospect, but that defense.....if you wanna call it that.....was terrible.

Really lacked any kind of defensive intensity & intelligence in that video.

Makes me sour on him a bit...

All those clips are from his freshman season, not this year. He's very coachable and has the physical tools, under Casey he will be fine defensively. Most 19 year olds (especially those who are regarded highly for their scoring skills) are bad defenders regardless, especially in their first few seasons in the NBA. He does make a lot of nice defensive plays too, he plays like someone who wants to get better, but I agree he does have a tendency to get lost on both ends. It's weird because IMO it's not an intelligence issue because his bball IQ is very good, it's not an effort/commitment issue because he is known to work really hard (and his skills/improvement show this)...I'd say more of an "engagement" issue, or inconsistent intensity/aggressiveness, from possession to possession (on both ends).

I wouldn't brand him a low motor player though because he puts in some serious work in the gym, he already added what looked like around 10 lbs last year, showed off his improved handles (said he worked everyday in the summer on them) and pull up game, and at times he works so hard/well off the ball in ways "low motor" guys just don't....but then he will have a 5 minute stretch of doing nothing, completely passive. Low motor guys don't have his hunger to get better, this is a guy who wasn't recruited highly in high school and in a couple of years has worked his way into becoming a top 10 pick. I don't question his motivation, effort or work ethic at all, only his confidence and killer instinct on the court. He needs to play like he's the f-ing man, when you watch him iso up on guys he can get anything on them that he wants, break them down or get a shot, but after doing that he'll just go 5 possessions without making any sort of an attacking move. Though it should be noted that college offenses are a lot different than NBA ones, star players don't just demand the ball and go one on one, most college stars are a part of the offense not THE offense. So when I say he goes 5 minutes without doing anything, it's not always him standing around and being passive, sometimes they just aren't running plays for him, sometimes his point guards dominate the ball too much and start chucking.

Also, I think someone made the point of him looking really bad against Syracuse. He looked bad ANYTIME the opposing team played zone. A lot of that has to do with that UConn simply didn't have a good offensive approach to attacking the zone this year, there was a lot of dead ball movement (ie. passes without any purpose) and the ball would rarely make it down below the FT line. The team looked completely unprepared against the zone, basically would result in the guards taking a long jumper. Probably has to do with the fact that Calhoun couldn't be with the team for long stretches due to suspension and then health problems. I'm also somewhat comforted with Lamb's poor performance against zone defense by the fact that NBA teams break down the zone much more easily (better and more open spacing, multiple guys on teams usually who can attack it off the dribble) and a guy who has a nice stroke like Lamb won't have any problem against it in the NBA, in fact it plays to his strengths.

Lamb's weaknesses to me aren't the glaring types you get from guys who fail to deliver at the NBA level. Biggest reasons guys, especially perimeter players, disappoint at the NBA level?

Lack of skills - except he's not a raw prospect you are drooling over because "once he learns to shoot" or "once he learns to put the ball on the floor"...the skills are already there and they are better than anyone else at his position in this draft.

Inability to create own shot - he can do this all day, has NBA caliber moves to create space.

Physical tools - you see this with guys who are stars at the college level but can't cut it in the NBA because they are not athletic enough or undersized or lack a true position. Except Lamb has a great combo of athleticism and length (length somewhat compares to that of KD at SF) suited to the NBA game.

Work ethic - everything from what I've heard and more importantly, what he's shown in his progress year to year, leads me to believe this is not something to be concerned about.

Low ceiling/potential - I don't think this is something anyone will argue. He's got a lot of room to improve. He hasn't even filled out his body, still learning to mix up his offensive skills, has barely scratched the surface of his potential as a defender/rebounder, is improving his skills every year and still "finding himself" as a player.

All in all we have a guy who is the most skilled at his position, has the best combo of length/athleticism at his position, has the highest ceiling at his position and on top of that works hard? Yea, we should totally not draft this guy. He's being penalized for being so skilled and talented that he "didn't do more", while still putting up better numbers than the other wings (btw, I'd love to see the other guys play with a backcourt of Napier and Boatright and try getting enough touches game to game to put up 18 ppg, nevermind doing it as efficiently as Lamb did). Also UConn's disappointing year as a team also seems to have made people forget that Lamb was on the championship team in his freshman year and put up 16.1 ppg on 58 FG%/70 TS% in the tournament. Just keep that in mind when people create this (non-existent) gap between guys like Beal/MKG/Barnes and Lamb because those other guys had more team success this year.

Trust me, I'm more aware of his flaws than his most vocal haters on here and it's crazy how people are overlooking the weaknesses of all the other prospects (more major/fundamental imo), and I partly blame people drawing their opinions from mock drafts (they see him 11th or 12th on some and assume his weaknesses must be more glaring than everyone else). And also, not sure if serious at people doing a PER, TS% etc etc comparison of Lamb with DeMar in college like it means ANYTHING when evaluating how well a college prospect's game translates to the NBA. Anyways I've kind of stopped caring about who we draft now, we're not in a position to choose anymore, we're hoping to pick up the scraps after the other 7 teams have picked...fukking sucks.

[Undefeated]

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

That UConn team was a mess, you'd expect Lamb to play with intensity night in and night out when the other guys aren't do it? And he played a ton of minutes. Like I said, he's already proven he can be a solid defender in his freshman year, so I'm not worried what he can or can't do.

[Marvin!]

That UConn team was a mess, you'd expect Lamb to play with intensity night in and night out when the other guys aren't do it?

Yes

[Onlykiwirapsfan]

Exactly what we saw in those clips.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that tidbit because I already said that Lamb wasn't engaged consistently on the defensive end. BUT that was a result of how poor UConn was playing than Jeremy Lamb the player.

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

see, i always kind of thought that the amount of effort a person gives to something is completely up to that person. I guess i was wrong.

While I agree with you in theory, in practice it really doesn't work like that. I've played on a few different basketball teams, and my effort/hustle can vary hugely simply depending on who I am playing with. Even if it isn't conscious, as I would like to think that I am above the whole '**** playing defence when these guys arent doing ****', it does play a part. Energy levels are so much higher when you are playing with people you like, who move the ball, and play their roles on defence. There is nothing more energy sapping than playing with people who dont pass and don't play adequate defence.

[JeJeFlak]

Why is Lamb falling so far in the mock drafts?

I see he is 17 in chad ford's latest mock draft.

He seems to have huge upside based on physical tools alone i don't see him dropping that low unless there are some huge red flags around him.

[SoulClap]

Why is Lamb falling so far in the mock drafts?

I see he is 17 in chad ford's latest mock draft.

He seems to have huge upside based on physical tools alone i don't see him dropping that low unless there are some huge red flags around him.

He's number 11 unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Ford is ridiculous putting him out of the lottery. Wait to see him change his tune once the combine/workouts are underway.

[Lawnmower Man]

Ford is ridiculous putting him out of the lottery. Wait to see him change his tune once the combine/workouts are underway.

There is no way Lamb is falling out of the top-10, let alone the lottery.

[fredericklove]

Jeremy Lamb vs. Quincy Miller during high school

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-WljhgDw4c[/youtube]

[Chaos Engine]

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

That UConn team was a mess, you'd expect Lamb to play with intensity night in and night out when the other guys aren't do it? And he played a ton of minutes. Like I said, he's already proven he can be a solid defender in his freshman year, so I'm not worried what he can or can't do.

That's ridiculous. So because some of his teammates were lazy, its ok that he's lazy? So he has no leadership qualities, good to know.

[Undefeated]

it's the team's fault that he couldn't give consistent effort on the defensive end... ok

That UConn team was a mess, you'd expect Lamb to play with intensity night in and night out when the other guys aren't do it? And he played a ton of minutes. Like I said, he's already proven he can be a solid defender in his freshman year, so I'm not worried what he can or can't do.

That's ridiculous. So because some of his teammates were lazy, its ok that he's lazy? So he has no leadership qualities, good to know.

Of course it's not okay, but it is what it is. But you're telling me you've never slacked off when you have teammates that are just fooling around on the court taking away the energy and fun from the game? You don't even need to be on a team. Heck, even in pick up ball it happens.