Around the NBA II

[anti-troll]

This is a smart move by OKC. They got Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb instead of nothing if Harden were to simply sign with another team this summer.

[FNQ]

Why wouldnt that deal be available after this season? He would be a RFA.. he goes nowhere unless the Thunder trade him or pass on his salary. The max salary he could get from another team? 4/60. Which he got from Houston anyways. I think its a terrible move at a terrible time.

[Mylie10]

Jeremy Lamb studly

[Mylie10]

Henry Sims is now available...I would dump Tyler in favor of him....great passer at 6'10".

[giberish]

OKC decided that they moved to a market that wasn't big enough for a title team.

Lamb and the picks (in support of Durant/Westbrook) will keep them very good for a long time, but in the 2nd round or conference finals losing level.

Houston's about half-way to the team that they want. If they could merge their 10 PF's into one stud they'd be set.

[Coxy]

Fantastic move by Presti.

Harden is overrated. Lamb is a stud, Martin will score, the picks are bacon flavored gravy.

Harden, the new Monta.

[anchorman123]

Fantastic move by Presti.

Harden is overrated. Lamb is a stud, Martin will score, the picks are bacon flavored gravy.

Harden, the new Monta.

Monta doesn't play d, harden does. Harden will be a multiple all star and monta? Also Harden has better basketball iq and seems to be more in control. Harden is just barely 23 as well.

Lamb is skinny and timid, he'll be crushed in the NBA. He might be good, but it might take a few years of developing.
Martin is an overrated scorer and a horrible defender. Despite what I say I still think it was a pretty decent deal for OKC, but saying harden is overrated? hardly.

[Coxy]

Fantastic move by Presti.

Harden is overrated. Lamb is a stud, Martin will score, the picks are bacon flavored gravy.

Harden, the new Monta.

Monta doesn't play d, harden does. Harden will be a multiple all star and monta? Also Harden has better basketball iq and seems to be more in control. Harden is just barely 23 as well.

Lamb is skinny and timid, he'll be crushed in the NBA. He might be good, but it might take a few years of developing.
Martin is an overrated scorer and a horrible defender. Despite what I say I still think it was a pretty decent deal for OKC, but saying harden is overrated? hardly.

Lets just wait and see how Harden does having an entire team build their defensive schemes against Houston centered around stopping Harden. He thinks he's that good does he, well, lets see how he handles the attention now.

I say, he's overrated. The new Monta.

[Jester_]

Comparing Harden to Monta is absurd. I can understand if you might think he won't be as effective in a starting role, but at 31 MPG he was one of the best shooting guards in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Houston just got the superstar they were looking for.

Lamb has potential, Martin is terrible. Awful trade by OKC. Truly awful.

[Jester_]

By the way, here are some of his stats with Westbrook and Durant on the bench: http://i.imgur.com/5TZhN.jpg

[and1GS]

Comparing Harden to Monta is absurd. I can understand if you might think he won't be as effective in a starting role, but at 31 MPG he was one of the best shooting guards in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Houston just got the superstar they were looking for.

Lamb has potential, Martin is terrible. Awful trade by OKC. Truly awful.

Well, I'll just say it, I don't think Harden is a superstar. I think he's a very good shooter who had a very good year, but he's the poor short man's Pierce. Unless he's Pierce reincarnated he doesn't deserve all that money. Especially odd that he thinks he deserves that kind of money after laying an egg in the finals.

[Mylie10]

Fantastic move by Presti.

Harden is overrated. Lamb is a stud, Martin will score, the picks are bacon flavored gravy.

Harden, the new Monta.

Monta doesn't play d, harden does. Harden will be a multiple all star and monta? Also Harden has better basketball iq and seems to be more in control. Harden is just barely 23 as well.

Lamb is skinny and timid, he'll be crushed in the NBA. He might be good, but it might take a few years of developing.
Martin is an overrated scorer and a horrible defender. Despite what I say I still think it was a pretty decent deal for OKC, but saying harden is overrated? hardly.

I'm not gonna really argue with you, but Lamb is not gonna be crushed in the NBA. He's one of the cerebral guys who are ultra smooth and next thing you know he's outscored you. He'll be a nice 2 guard for them, and now they have draft picks to cheaply maintain their roster.

[Sleepy51]

Fantastic move by Presti.

Harden is overrated. Lamb is a stud, Martin will score, the picks are bacon flavored gravy.

Harden, the new Monta.

Monta doesn't play d, harden does. Harden will be a multiple all star and monta? Also Harden has better basketball iq and seems to be more in control. Harden is just barely 23 as well.

Lamb is skinny and timid, he'll be crushed in the NBA. He might be good, but it might take a few years of developing.
Martin is an overrated scorer and a horrible defender. Despite what I say I still think it was a pretty decent deal for OKC, but saying harden is overrated? hardly.

I'm not gonna really argue with you, but Lamb is not gonna be crushed in the NBA. He's one of the cerebral guys who are ultra smooth and next thing you know he's outscored you. He'll be a nice 2 guard for them, and now they have draft picks to cheaply maintain their roster.

I'll argue with him.

Harden was a major negative on D. -1.6DRAPM.

Monta was a negative as well but a lesser one at -0.7

If Harden was p[laying defense, he stunk at it.

[whocurrz]

Comparing Harden to Monta is absurd. I can understand if you might think he won't be as effective in a starting role, but at 31 MPG he was one of the best shooting guards in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Houston just got the superstar they were looking for.

Lamb has potential, Martin is terrible. Awful trade by OKC. Truly awful.

Well, I'll just say it, I don't think Harden is a superstar. I think he's a very good shooter who had a very good year, but he's the poor short man's Pierce. Unless he's Pierce reincarnated he doesn't deserve all that money. Especially odd that he thinks he deserves that kind of money after laying an egg in the finals.

I kinda see what you're getting at with the comparisons but Pierce is a WAAAAY better mid range shooter. When Harden plays pick and roll against teams that can defend it (like Miami) and force him to shoot midrange, he's pretty ineffective. Pierce is great as an iso scorer in the midrange

[and1GS]

Hmm, interesting stat. He never looked to be anything special on D to me but I assumed I was missing something, since people and commentators kept applauding him. I think people like Harden because he's a stat boy's wet dream on offense. But, unless he's literally Reggie Miller 2.0 (he's not, Reggie had amazing confidence) I don't see any way he's worth a max deal, or even worth more than he was offered. I think he had a career year and has been sorely overrated.

[floppymoose]

I'm not going to take a position on Harden's D yet, but I will note that he plays almost no minutes with Thabo, who had the 4th best raw defensive +- in the league last season.

Meanwhile Harden had the 4th best raw offensive +- in the league last season. It may be that RAPM just doesn't have enough to work with here and that Harden's defense is being undermined by the minute distribution on that team. I want to see what it looks like after a season in Houston.

But when it comes to evaluating the player overall, there comes a point where I don't care what his defense is like. If he was +3 on offense and -3 on defense, I would care about his defense. When he's +14 on offense, I don't really care that he's -6 on defense. A net of +8 is huge any way you slice it. A guy who helps you that much overall (offense and defense) when he's on the court can do it in whatever way he thinks best. He clearly understands what to do.

My best guess at what will happen in Houston: his offense +- will go down, his defensive +- will improve, but the overall impact will still be similar.

[Sleepy51]

I'm not going to take a position on Harden's D yet, but I will note that he plays almost no minutes with Thabo, who had the 4th best raw defensive +- in the league last season.


...

My best guess at what will happen in Houston: his offense +- will go down, his defensive +- will improve, but the overall impact will still be similar.

That argument isn't helping him. Thabo is the guy he shares his position with, not a guy who he could have spent minutes next to to help clean up his +/-. Of course a good defender who shares minutes with a bad defender is going to have an excellent DPM number. Harden hurting the defense is contributing to Thabo's rating. If Thabo were sharing his position with someone who played defense his number wouldn't be as high.

I think what will happen in Houston is that Harden's offensive edficiency will go down without Durant and Westbrook attracting most of the defensive attention and his defense will be further exposed without Serge and Perkins behind him.

His boxscores will be sexy through, getting off all those shots that he couldn't take from Durant.

[Lucky Striker]

I think just watching him play its easy to see what an excellent athlete he is. Even for NBA standards, he's on another level in terms of his ability to get by people through his change of direction quickness.

I think he is going to be a borderline superstar. Should be good for around 25ppg on Houston, with a fg% over 45 and will be a league leader in FT's. He'll have a great impact on that team.

[and1GS]

Guys, I found the Anthony Randolph of the NFL...Dez Bryant!

He never listens to his coaches and he follows up every great play with an equally stupid one. Catches a 50 yard bomb, fumbles on the kickoff. Catches a game winning TD, braces his fall with his hand out of bounds. Dunks on Yao Ming, slaps him with kung pow fried rice. Same damn dude I tells ya.

[marthafokker]

That stats hide so much and people runs around with it like a dollar hooker. Harden plays some/most of the time against backups. So he pads his stats against backups, great. And Monta is bad because he does it against starters? And we know how bad Monta is.