mojay641 wrote:and its still nowhere near as good as what curry has now. nice try. thanks for playing.
That Melo's team in DEN, not including himself, had 5 guys at or above the league average in PER, including one guy above 20. Melo ranked 4th on that team in WS/48.
Curry's team, not including himself? Just 2, with nobody above 20. Curry's .214 leads the team in WS/48 by a sizable gap, that figure is something Melo has never come close to approaching.
No matter how you look it, DEN had more productive talent than GSW has right now.
mojay641 wrote:you do realize its not apples to apples comparison right. the fact is, they're offense is barely above league-average. and raw +/- is useless. "one of the best and most dangerous offenses". LMAO.
Regarding GSW, They literally have the worst bench output in the NBA. They score the least amount of points with the worst efficiency by a significant margin, they have the 3rd worst difference in efficiency between the starters and the bench ahead of only DET and MIN. So, the fact that the starters are able to take that bench performance and raise it a league-average overall is quite impressive. As a contrast, NYK gets 10 more bench ppg in 3 more mpg shooting .70 points better.
+/- is not an end-all, be-all but it is often quite illuminating when used with the right context, like all stats.
Of course, if you watched more than Knicks games and Melo commercials, you might understand that.
mojay641 wrote:He rarely passes the ball, yet he has such a high ToP for his position. What do you think is happening in that time? Chess?
wrong again. hes a perfectly willing passer. watch the games son. stop blindly following the silly media narratives.
Silly media narratives, hmm? Such a ridiculous statement, I hardly known where to begin.
Let's Review some objective facts:
1) Melo has a time of possession of 3.5 mpg, which is a figure only matched or exceeded by players that are functioning as Point Guards &/or named LeBron. The meaning of this fact is that those players spend a lot of time with the ball initiating the offense, which means bringing the ball up the floor, making the play call, getting people organized, directing players to necessary spots, possibly probing for better scoring chances, etc. These tasks would cause a player's ToP to spike, accordingly. However, as a scorer, these are tasks that Melo is not commonly asked to do. Which begs the question, what exactly is Melo doing while he has the ball for that long?
2) Melo averages 21.3 FGA/g, currently leading the league just over LMA who averages 21.2. LMA has a ToP of 1.9 mpg. LMA is assisted on 60% of his FG. Melo is assisted on 42%. He was assisted on 39% in 2012-13. In fact, of the top-10 players in FGA/g, the only non-PG below 49% is Durant(46%), who is functioning as a part-time Point Forward now. Melo is a scorer who shoots more than any other player in the league, but is not frequently set up for his shots. Which implies that Most of Melo's scoring is self-generated, likely from an isolation situation.
3) Melo averages 41.8 passes per game. This figure includes any and every type of pass, including inbounds passes, resets, outlets, assist opportunities, swing passes etc. Given that Melo holds the ball more than any other primary scorer who is not named LeBron, this figure is low. This figure is lower than such noted offensive facilitators as Gortat, Tristan Thompson, Derrick Favors & Nikola Vucevic.
4) Melo produces 6.4 assist opportunities per game. This figure includes every single time Melo passes to a teammate for an open shot, whether that shot misses or not. Which is not only far less than several other offensive stars such as LeBron, Durant, George, Kevin Love & Blake Griffin, but also players like Aaron Afflalo, Luol Deng & Demar Derozen. It is also less than players like Josh McRoberts, Joakim Noah, both Gasol Brothers and Spencer Hawes. Every example listed above, with the exception of LeBron, have markedly lower ToP than Carmelo. Guys like Deng & McRoberts create more scoring chances for their teammates while having the ball for half the time.
In Summary, Melo shoots more than any player in the league while holding the ball longer than any other non-PG often playing isolation basketball while passing less than many centers and creating less scoring chances for his teammates than Josh McRoberts. Sounds like a willing passer to me, lmao. Your 'media narratives' is hilarious though. Did you remember to adjust your tinfoil hat before you sat down to type that?
melo 2013 is more impactful than any version of curry. you ain't winning **** with a 6 feet PG as your best player.
I could've went through the rest of your fallacious argument, but when I saw this statement after reading your 'media narratives' conspiracy theory (always trying to keep a good chucker down, huh?), it really shows how ignorant you really are.
Curry is 6'3", so setting that as the baseline:
Examples of successful modern teams with a 6'3" & under PG as the best player in the past 3 decades:
NBA Champions:
Isiah Thomas
Chauncey Billups
Conference Champions:
Tony Parker
Of course, noted 6'4" Behemoths like Gary Payton & Jason Kidd just missed the cutoff by a mere inch. lol.
Curry's current WS/48 exceeds that of either Thomas or Billups, as does his ORTG, while his ORTG is just short of Tony Parker, though he beats him in WS/48.
Melo 2013 had a 113 ORTG & a WS/48 of .184 on a +30(actually a league-leading total of 35.6). So, here's a fun fact: No team in this century has won the title with their best player having an ORTG or WS/48 that low while having a usage rate over 32% with the exception of Kobe in 2010, who had the luxury of Gasol actually producing a comparable PER, higher ORTG & higher WS, plus Odom & Bynum. If you use his 35%, nobody has ever won. And Kobe had an assist percentage that dwarfs Melo's career best, much less what he's done since coming to NYK.
Basically, if you want to build around a Melo-type player, you can do so. As long as you flank him with a loaded team with an elite player who produces at a significantly higher rate than the Melo-type offensively but is still willing to be a sidekick.
So, in conclusion, you can build around a 6'3" dual threat point guard offensively far easier than you can a high volume ball-stopper who rarely passes to anything but the rim. Especially one who has elevated a team filled with players who struggle to generate their own offense at all supported by the worst bench in the league to an elite level of production whenever he's in the game.
G'Day
