Terrence Ross is unbelievable

[JWiLL02]

As I said, I've seen little up to now to project Ross as an All-star or superstar. He is not young or getting younger. He, like dozens before him, has the physical gifts to get it done, so it's up to him from here on out.

And I don't know about him having to "earn" his minutes, as opposed to Demar. When Gay was traded, who did Ross have to compete with for the SF job? Fields? Salmons? If he couldn't start ahead of those below average journeyman, what would that say about his future superstardom?

He is not SF, he is SG. DeRozan is playing his position right now, which will slightly limit his opportunity.
It was better since the Wolfs game, where he has more pick and roll opportunities, or one on one opportunities. However, he will be limited on the offense at this point. I believe he can do what Salmons can do with pick and roll, his passing can further improve by learning from Salmons.

Well, he took over for Gay, the starting SF, when Gay was traded.

But in truth we can say that in today's NBA there's a fine and probably unnecessary line between SG and SF. Better to say generic wing. But whatever. The starting spot opened up when Gay was traded, Ross stepped in.

If you're saying Ross is a more natural SG, so be it. With Demar on the team Ross better learn to play in tandem with him, as generic wings, and if Ross is as good defensively as he's alleged to be here, he better learn to lock down on bigger wings, because Demar will not be paid for his D.

Taking all this into account, who realistically thinks Ross has "superstar" potential?

Anyone claiming "superstar" potential is out there, but he has high impact 2 way potential. I think he's a good fit beside DeMar.

Defending the Melo, KD and Brons of the league will always boil down more to team defense than individual. Ross has done a good job on KD and George this year.

[Indeed]

Well, he took over for Gay, the starting SF, when Gay was traded.

But in truth we can say that in today's NBA there's a fine and probably unnecessary line between SG and SF. Better to say generic wing. But whatever. The starting spot opened up when Gay was traded, Ross stepped in.

If you're saying Ross is a more natural SG, so be it. With Demar on the team Ross better learn to play in tandem with him, as generic wings, and if Ross is as good defensively as he's alleged to be here, he better learn to lock down on bigger wings, because Demar will not be paid for his D.

Taking all this into account, who realistically thinks Ross has "superstar" potential?

I think you mistaken 10 years ago. There is a fine and probably unnecessary line between PG and SG (6th man) these days, because many teams run duo PG for the ball handling and passing at the guard positions. Thus, the SF became a defensive position.

Meanwhile, if you want to keep DeRozan, you just have to say it. I disagree that you have to force Ross to guard bigger wings and DeRozan doesn't need to play defense.

I'll have to disagree with you re. generic wings and 10 years ago and so on, but that's just me. Guys like Durant and George and Batum and Leonard, and to a different degree guys like Parsons and Gay and Ariza and Wilson Chandler - to say nothing of Lebron Himself - are listed as small forwards, but could slot into a SG/SF position with little problem. And hold their own defensively. How many guys listed as SGs would the above guys not be able to defend? Harden? I don't see much problem there.

As to small forward becoming a "defensive position", I don't get your point at all. Guys like Lebron and Durant and Melo and George, to name four, are producing some decent offense. They also play good to great D (apart from Melo), but that's what superstars do.

I don't understand the part about Demar. Are you saying you'd prefer to trade him and keep Ross? Then you should say so. But as long as Demar and Ross are playing at the same time, and their minutes on court are sure to trend upwards to 30 or more, Ross will have to pick up the defensive slack, because Demar is a below average defender. Saying that does not mean that Demar "doesn't need to play defense", a weird phrase that I obviously never said.

And by the way, that's 2 quotes you attributed to me, without my having said that. Believe me when I say, if I have something to say, I'll say it. Don't need anyone else interpreting my words or, worse, putting words in my mouth.

I think you misunderstand my statement. It has less to do with the SF spot, but the SG spot is no long a wing position, it is a guard position instead.

By the way, I never say I prefer to trade anyone or keep anyone on the thread. I am saying it doesn't work with DeRozan and Ross being on the same lineup. Sure, a weak conference/year would work, but strong teams will need a big SF to help, since it is the most versatile position of all. San Antonio did just that to acquire Leonard, and his impact was saw last year's playoffs.

You can say what you want to say, reasoning is the key. The reasoning you provided, I don't see it is enough. Eg. "Ross will have to pick up the defensive slask, because DeRozan is a below average defender", why not the other way around? Because Ross can't guard bigger SF, DeRozan should be guarding bigger SF, no? And I haven't heard anyone agree to "Bargnani can't rebound nor defend, Amir should be rebounding and defending", correct? If Bargnani cannot rebound is unacceptable, what makes DeRozan not defending is acceptable?

[hillbilly hare]

I think you mistaken 10 years ago. There is a fine and probably unnecessary line between PG and SG (6th man) these days, because many teams run duo PG for the ball handling and passing at the guard positions. Thus, the SF became a defensive position.

Meanwhile, if you want to keep DeRozan, you just have to say it. I disagree that you have to force Ross to guard bigger wings and DeRozan doesn't need to play defense.

I'll have to disagree with you re. generic wings and 10 years ago and so on, but that's just me. Guys like Durant and George and Batum and Leonard, and to a different degree guys like Parsons and Gay and Ariza and Wilson Chandler - to say nothing of Lebron Himself - are listed as small forwards, but could slot into a SG/SF position with little problem. And hold their own defensively. How many guys listed as SGs would the above guys not be able to defend? Harden? I don't see much problem there.

As to small forward becoming a "defensive position", I don't get your point at all. Guys like Lebron and Durant and Melo and George, to name four, are producing some decent offense. They also play good to great D (apart from Melo), but that's what superstars do.

I don't understand the part about Demar. Are you saying you'd prefer to trade him and keep Ross? Then you should say so. But as long as Demar and Ross are playing at the same time, and their minutes on court are sure to trend upwards to 30 or more, Ross will have to pick up the defensive slack, because Demar is a below average defender. Saying that does not mean that Demar "doesn't need to play defense", a weird phrase that I obviously never said.

And by the way, that's 2 quotes you attributed to me, without my having said that. Believe me when I say, if I have something to say, I'll say it. Don't need anyone else interpreting my words or, worse, putting words in my mouth.

I think you misunderstand my statement. It has less to do with the SF spot, but the SG spot is no long a wing position, it is a guard position instead.

By the way, I never say I prefer to trade anyone or keep anyone on the thread. I am saying it doesn't work with DeRozan and Ross being on the same lineup. Sure, a weak conference/year would work, but strong teams will need a big SF to help, since it is the most versatile position of all. San Antonio did just that to acquire Leonard, and his impact was saw last year's playoffs.

You can say what you want to say, reasoning is the key. The reasoning you provided, I don't see it is enough. Eg. "Ross will have to pick up the defensive slask, because DeRozan is a below average defender", why not the other way around? Because Ross can't guard bigger SF, DeRozan should be guarding bigger SF, no? And I haven't heard anyone agree to "Bargnani can't rebound nor defend, Amir should be rebounding and defending", correct? If Bargnani cannot rebound is unacceptable, what makes DeRozan not defending is acceptable?

DeRozan not defending is definitely NOT acceptable, that's my point. DeRozan is probably going to be here for the duration. If it becomes clear that he and Ross cannot play together, then I think it'll be Ross on the way out, if Masai has to choose.

The point is that Demar is not a good defender. He might become one, with hard work, as he improved his shooting with hard work. Let's hope. Again, it doesn't matter what we CALL Demar and Ross, whether it's SF or SG or whatever, it's finding what works best when they're on the floor together, as those minutes will only increase. If Demar is less of a negative on D when he guards the other team's SF, then so be it.

As to bringing up Bargnani, that is just weird.

[hillbilly hare]

As I said, I've seen little up to now to project Ross as an All-star or superstar. He is not young or getting younger. He, like dozens before him, has the physical gifts to get it done, so it's up to him from here on out.

And I don't know about him having to "earn" his minutes, as opposed to Demar. When Gay was traded, who did Ross have to compete with for the SF job? Fields? Salmons? If he couldn't start ahead of those below average journeyman, what would that say about his future superstardom?

He just turned 23, he IS young.

What the hell is it with this board and writing off potential on rookies/sophomores who aren't one and done players? It's ridiculous. NBA experience matters.

Who's writing him off? I certainly didn't. What the hell is it with not being able to find some middle ground? Guys writing about Ross being a future superstar, one of the best SGs in the league, way better than Demar, and so on. Based on what?

As I and lots of people said about Demar for years, if he can improve certain areas of his game he'd have All-star potential. And he did. And he does.

Same for Ross? To me it's early at this point. But given his athleticism, why not?

[JWiLL02]

As I said, I've seen little up to now to project Ross as an All-star or superstar. He is not young or getting younger. He, like dozens before him, has the physical gifts to get it done, so it's up to him from here on out.

And I don't know about him having to "earn" his minutes, as opposed to Demar. When Gay was traded, who did Ross have to compete with for the SF job? Fields? Salmons? If he couldn't start ahead of those below average journeyman, what would that say about his future superstardom?

He just turned 23, he IS young.

What the hell is it with this board and writing off potential on rookies/sophomores who aren't one and done players? It's ridiculous. NBA experience matters.

Who's writing him off? I certainly didn't. What the hell is it with not being able to find some middle ground? Guys writing about Ross being a future superstar, one of the best SGs in the league, way better than Demar, and so on. Based on what?

As I and lots of people said about Demar for years, if he can improve certain areas of his game he'd have All-star potential. And he did. And he does.

Same for Ross? To me it's early at this point. But given his athleticism, why not?

That was only semi-aimed at you. People have been saying it on this board for awhile regarding his age.

The fact that there seems to be an influx of HS kids around here is likely a contributing factor. I suppose 23 was 'old' to me when I was 16.

[RedX]

Can't wait to pick up my purple retro Ross jersey.

[Indeed]

I'll have to disagree with you re. generic wings and 10 years ago and so on, but that's just me. Guys like Durant and George and Batum and Leonard, and to a different degree guys like Parsons and Gay and Ariza and Wilson Chandler - to say nothing of Lebron Himself - are listed as small forwards, but could slot into a SG/SF position with little problem. And hold their own defensively. How many guys listed as SGs would the above guys not be able to defend? Harden? I don't see much problem there.

As to small forward becoming a "defensive position", I don't get your point at all. Guys like Lebron and Durant and Melo and George, to name four, are producing some decent offense. They also play good to great D (apart from Melo), but that's what superstars do.

I don't understand the part about Demar. Are you saying you'd prefer to trade him and keep Ross? Then you should say so. But as long as Demar and Ross are playing at the same time, and their minutes on court are sure to trend upwards to 30 or more, Ross will have to pick up the defensive slack, because Demar is a below average defender. Saying that does not mean that Demar "doesn't need to play defense", a weird phrase that I obviously never said.

And by the way, that's 2 quotes you attributed to me, without my having said that. Believe me when I say, if I have something to say, I'll say it. Don't need anyone else interpreting my words or, worse, putting words in my mouth.

I think you misunderstand my statement. It has less to do with the SF spot, but the SG spot is no long a wing position, it is a guard position instead.

By the way, I never say I prefer to trade anyone or keep anyone on the thread. I am saying it doesn't work with DeRozan and Ross being on the same lineup. Sure, a weak conference/year would work, but strong teams will need a big SF to help, since it is the most versatile position of all. San Antonio did just that to acquire Leonard, and his impact was saw last year's playoffs.

You can say what you want to say, reasoning is the key. The reasoning you provided, I don't see it is enough. Eg. "Ross will have to pick up the defensive slask, because DeRozan is a below average defender", why not the other way around? Because Ross can't guard bigger SF, DeRozan should be guarding bigger SF, no? And I haven't heard anyone agree to "Bargnani can't rebound nor defend, Amir should be rebounding and defending", correct? If Bargnani cannot rebound is unacceptable, what makes DeRozan not defending is acceptable?

DeRozan not defending is definitely NOT acceptable, that's my point. DeRozan is probably going to be here for the duration. If it becomes clear that he and Ross cannot play together, then I think it'll be Ross on the way out, if Masai has to choose.

The point is that Demar is not a good defender. He might become one, with hard work, as he improved his shooting with hard work. Let's hope. Again, it doesn't matter what we CALL Demar and Ross, whether it's SF or SG or whatever, it's finding what works best when they're on the floor together, as those minutes will only increase. If Demar is less of a negative on D when he guards the other team's SF, then so be it.

As to bringing up Bargnani, that is just weird.

It does matter it is SF and SG, otherwise, you won't see teams draft for SF. The issue is, SF are rare, as rare as good C. The position at SF requires a lot of skills and physical attributes, and many people failed to transition from PF to SF.

Besides, you need more than hardwork. There is talent and mentality (awareness). Eg. James Johnson tried to improve his shooting, but it doesn't work for him.

I bring up other players, because people here are familiar with them.

The bottom line is, SF and SG are different. DeRozan has better success against smaller players, due to the way he plays. If you are asking him to play the SF and against SF, it will be difficult for him to use his body to draw fouls, and ideally against SG. On the other hand, Ross has better success defending his size or smaller player (still have trouble with quick players, because he doesn't know how to predict nor play the position), but ideally he is against SG.

[Flight33]

Bryan Colangelo approves this thread.

[rrdjutriurt]

To all the non believers, you don't tie Vince Carter's all-time Raptor scoring record without oodles of potential. Yes, i did see a young Ray Allen bust into the league and he is very similar at the same stage of their careers. The kid is a natural, some day the non believers will see that! He is smooth as silk out there when you watch him live.