Alex Len

[ATTL]

I would much rather have Len than noel. For as much grief as Len has gotten for his injuries and play, he is healthier and better than Noel.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I would much rather have Len than noel. For as much grief as Len has gotten for his injuries and play, he is healthier and better than Noel.

I dont think thats a crazy stance at all. Noels knee is a legit concern and while hes kept his nose fairly clean there have been whispers about character concerns with noel since hes been in college. And while noel has been good on d hes a little light to bang with the big heavy centers.

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[NavLDO]

Noel > Len

#1 - What more would you like to see from Len? Could he convince you with him play to come around on him or no?

#2 - Weekapaug's point was that Len may not get a high offer because there are a bunch of centers from that draft will also be RFAs and they will be sought after first. Most of those teams will keep them, or try and trade them instead of not matching them and letting them walk off. Also, there may not be that many teams out there that need centers since Noel and/or Okafor might be available and there are numerous other teams that have 2 or 3 decent centers.

I'm just saying Len will be the highest paid player on the team barring a trade because you can't let your assets walk away for nothing. So if he isn't traded by the deadline, I'm fairly certain we will match any offer or more likely get him to sign to what the FO thinks is reasonable if he really wants to stay with the Suns and not entertain other teams. Chandler can keep starting for now, so to compare him to backup centers across the league, he's got to be one of the better ones, and can continue improving and take over as starter next year or the following year, and we can draft a young one to compete with him.

I just don't think Len fits on this team. We have Chandler and he plays better than Len almost every game he starts. Does Len have good games? Yes. Does he do it consistently? No. I'm just curious how/where Len fits into our current team with our current coach.

Len will not get a huge contract. He is injury prone and doesn't bring it every game. I would rather risk it with Noel and/or Okafor than entertain the idea that he has a place on this team.

I'm fine with a S&T if it makes sense. I disagree that he has a future on this team. He is not much better than Robin Lopez.

In the first 200 minutes or so of the season, Chandler had a whopping 1 Blk, and has 5 in 10 games. Len had 4 in one game. Le hasn't been provided consistent minutes, nor starts, s of course his stats aren't consistent, but in the last 6 games, he's had 5 with double digit TRBs, and the other he had 7. And BTW, during that 6 game span he had 16 Blks, ranging between 2-4 each gm.

And injury prone??? He played 78 games last season and hasn't missed a game this season. Even the season prior he only missed 13 games. I assume you REALLY want Bledsoe off the team with his injury history.

I just think you are creating things in your mind that you think are true based on earlier evidence, but are not true as of late...especially the past month. But if we don't pay Len $16-$20M, we are just going to pay some other Center that money, and likely one older like Mahinmi or Mozgov (both 30, and paid $16M through their 34 YO season), or we are drafting a young big and hoping that Chandler/the Coaches get the player up to starting shape within 2 years, and hoping against all else that Chandler holds up another 2 years.

[bwgood77]

#1 - What more would you like to see from Len? Could he convince you with him play to come around on him or no?

#2 - Weekapaug's point was that Len may not get a high offer because there are a bunch of centers from that draft will also be RFAs and they will be sought after first. Most of those teams will keep them, or try and trade them instead of not matching them and letting them walk off. Also, there may not be that many teams out there that need centers since Noel and/or Okafor might be available and there are numerous other teams that have 2 or 3 decent centers.

I'm just saying Len will be the highest paid player on the team barring a trade because you can't let your assets walk away for nothing. So if he isn't traded by the deadline, I'm fairly certain we will match any offer or more likely get him to sign to what the FO thinks is reasonable if he really wants to stay with the Suns and not entertain other teams. Chandler can keep starting for now, so to compare him to backup centers across the league, he's got to be one of the better ones, and can continue improving and take over as starter next year or the following year, and we can draft a young one to compete with him.

I just don't think Len fits on this team. We have Chandler and he plays better than Len almost every game he starts. Does Len have good games? Yes. Does he do it consistently? No. I'm just curious how/where Len fits into our current team with our current coach.

Len will not get a huge contract. He is injury prone and doesn't bring it every game. I would rather risk it with Noel and/or Okafor than entertain the idea that he has a place on this team.

I'm fine with a S&T if it makes sense. I disagree that he has a future on this team. He is not much better than Robin Lopez.

In the first 200 minutes or so of the season, Chandler had a whopping 1 Blk, and has 5 in 10 games. Len had 4 in one game. Le hasn't been provided consistent minutes, nor starts, s of course his stats aren't consistent, but in the last 6 games, he's had 5 with double digit TRBs, and the other he had 7. And BTW, during that 6 game span he had 16 Blks, ranging between 2-4 each gm.

And injury prone??? He played 78 games last season and hasn't missed a game this season. Even the season prior he only missed 13 games. I assume you REALLY want Bledsoe off the team with his injury history.

I just think you are creating thins in your mind that you think are true based on earlier evidence, but are not true as of late...especially the past month. Butif we don't pay Len $16-$20M,we are just going to pay some other Center that money, and likely one older like Mahinmi or Mozgov (both 30, and paid $16M through their 34 YO season), or we are drafting a young big and hoping that Chandler/the Coaches get the player up to starting shape within 2 years, and hoping against all else that Chandler holds up another 2 years.

We are WAY better with Chandler on the court. See here.. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1401913&p=50246025#p50246025

That being said, I still think Len provides some value with rebounding and shot blocking. I decided to look at how good Chandler was at Len's age and do a player comparison. If you look at raw #s, outside of fg%, Len looks good at the same age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Ktj42

If you look at the most advanced stats like OBPM, DBPM, BPM, and VORP, Chandler kills him and seems much more efficient probably in ways that don't show up in many of the box score stats. With strict box score raw #s (and PER, since that relies on those), Len fares well.

But just like I said recently, I think we need to pay and keep Len. He doesn't really hurt us unless he is jacking up 10+ shots a game.

[WeekapaugGroove]

One thing to keep in mind with len is defense is one of the slowest things to develop with big men. Even guys like him who have the athletic profile to be good defensively take time to understand positioning and to learn the tricks on how to guard certain players. Most bigs dont reach their defensive peak until theyve been in the league 5 plus years so its reasonable to think len can improve over the length of his next contact.

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[jcsunsfan]

I just don't think Len fits on this team. We have Chandler and he plays better than Len almost every game he starts. Does Len have good games? Yes. Does he do it consistently? No. I'm just curious how/where Len fits into our current team with our current coach.

Len will not get a huge contract. He is injury prone and doesn't bring it every game. I would rather risk it with Noel and/or Okafor than entertain the idea that he has a place on this team.

I'm fine with a S&T if it makes sense. I disagree that he has a future on this team. He is not much better than Robin Lopez.

In the first 200 minutes or so of the season, Chandler had a whopping 1 Blk, and has 5 in 10 games. Len had 4 in one game. Le hasn't been provided consistent minutes, nor starts, s of course his stats aren't consistent, but in the last 6 games, he's had 5 with double digit TRBs, and the other he had 7. And BTW, during that 6 game span he had 16 Blks, ranging between 2-4 each gm.

And injury prone??? He played 78 games last season and hasn't missed a game this season. Even the season prior he only missed 13 games. I assume you REALLY want Bledsoe off the team with his injury history.

I just think you are creating thins in your mind that you think are true based on earlier evidence, but are not true as of late...especially the past month. Butif we don't pay Len $16-$20M,we are just going to pay some other Center that money, and likely one older like Mahinmi or Mozgov (both 30, and paid $16M through their 34 YO season), or we are drafting a young big and hoping that Chandler/the Coaches get the player up to starting shape within 2 years, and hoping against all else that Chandler holds up another 2 years.

We are WAY better with Chandler on the court. See here.. viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1401913&p=50246025#p50246025

That being said, I still think Len provides some value with rebounding and shot blocking. I decided to look at how good Chandler was at Len's age and do a player comparison. If you look at raw #s, outside of fg%, Len looks good at the same age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Ktj42

If you look at the most advanced stats like OBPM, DBPM, BPM, and VORP, Chandler kills him and seems much more efficient probably in ways that don't show up in many of the box score stats. With strict box score raw #s (and PER, since that relies on those), Len fares well.

But just like I said recently, I think we need to pay and keep Len. He doesn't really hurt us unless he is jacking up 10+ shots a game.

LOVE the link. Its a really good perspective. Chandler took quite a while to develop.

[GMATCallahan]

One thing to keep in mind with len is defense is one of the slowest things to develop with big men. Even guys like him who have the athletic profile to be good defensively take time to understand positioning and to learn the tricks on how to guard certain players. Most bigs dont reach their defensive peak until theyve been in the league 5 plus years so its reasonable to think len can improve over the length of his next contact.

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One could argue that offense develops more slowly with big men in general. And since post-ups are almost a thing of the past in the NBA, the issue with Len's defense, I would argue, pertains more to his help defense (or pick-and-roll defense)—how he plugs the lane and attempts to alter shots. (And you may have been referring to this aspect as well.) With his length, height, and reasonable athletic ability, he provides some rim protection and shot blocking, but too often he seems too passive. He does not 'step up' quickly enough and instead allows drivers to get too deep, where they can find a good angle to get their shots off. If you are a more agile athlete with expert and quicker timing, you might be able to lay back to induce a driving shot attempt and then suddenly spring forward to reject or alter the shot—Hakeem Olajuwon, for instance, excelled in that manner. But Len is certainly no Olajuwon, and he needs to react more quickly and aggressively to step forth and plug the lane. Perhaps the Suns could show Len some old tapes of Mark West playing defense—nothing fancy, but fundamentally sound in terms of positioning time after time. (Of course, West at his best was also a quick-reacting shot-blocker who blocked the most shots of anyone in the 1990 playoffs, but he was also just 6'9" in actual height.)

[bwgood77]

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[kennydorglas]

I posted few weeks ago some metric called "RUSSELL" (measures quality of the blocks = leads to a Def Rebound).
I guess no one cared to update that list so I did it by myself with our players:

Alex Len 46 blocks 25 RUSSELL (54%)
Tyson Chandler 9 blocks 5 RUSSELL (55%)
Marquese Chriss 15 blocks 6 RUSSELL (40%)
Dragan Bender 9 blocks 2 RUSSELL (22%)

fun tidbit: Devin Booker has 8 blocks 7 RUSSELL.

Is this Alex numbers any good? Let's see:
He's 4th in the league in BLOCK% (5.8), so I compared his numbers with the 3 guys on top of him in this stat (Myles Turner, Rudy Gobert and Anthony Davis)

Myles Turner 73 blocks 31 RUSSELL (42%)
Rudy Gobert 81 blocks 44 RUSSELL (54%)
Anthony Davis 82 blocks 49 RUSSELL (60%)

Not bad, right?

He needs to manage his fouls better tho. Took a look at theirs BLK/Shooting Fouls:

Alex Len 46 blocks 40 SF (1.15)
Myles Turner 73 blocks 48 SF (1.52)
Rudy Gobert 81 blocks 47 SF (1.72)
Anthony Davis 82 blocks 24 SF (3.41)

How about true rim protection?

Rudy Gobert 11.1 DFGA 42.5%
Myles Turner 9.6 DFGA 51%
Anthony Davis 7.3 DFGA 47.3%
Alex Len 6.6 DFGA 46.5%

The only one in this list who has a better TRB% than Len is Rudy Gobert.

I was very skeptical at first but it's hard to think that he isnt going to get paid.

It's nice that he's adjusting on offense too: less jumpers (-11%) and more opportunities below the rim (+12%)

[Qwigglez]

Occasionally I'll get mad at Len, but for the most part this season he has played really good ball. At 7'2 he's got the tools to be an elite rim defender for years.

[Qwigglez]

Watch on YouTube

[Fo-Real]

Don't know if its possible given his frame, but Len just needs to get a lot stronger. He gets pushed off balance a lot, be it on offense, defense or rebounding and it makes him look clumsy. He gets physically strong, and his movement hopefully becomes more deft in every motion, and he has a chance to be great. If he is physically stronger, he will hesitate less trying to gather and appear more fluid instead of just looking indecisive.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Watch on YouTube

There was another possession, not shown, when Len decided to pick Embiid up on the three point line. Embiid began to drive, but Len matched him and pushed him back. Joel passed the ball off. That and a block against Embiid in the post.

How many teams have a young center that can guard Embiid and Drummond? My guess is two, maybe three - us, Utah and Denver. If Porzingis is a center, that's another. Haven't watched enough of Capella - someone will have to tell me if he's strong enough to be in this category.

That's just not very many. We're all underestimating what we have in Alex - until recently, myself included. He's looked great this season.

[bwgood77]

Top Rim Protectors This Year - Blocks / 36 Min vs. FG% for Shots Defended at Rim

[Bogyo]

That's a pretty awsome graph!

[Villalobos]

a future Bender/Len frontcourt has a lot of defensive potential

[NavLDO]

Read this in Rotoworld's "Bold Predictions" post; I wholeheartedly agree.

Steve Alexander (@docktora)

Alex Len will finish the season in a flurry. Tyson Chandler will finally take a seat at some point for the lowly Suns, and Len will finally be turned loose. I just don't know when it's going to happen, but the All-Star break seems to make sense.

[jcsunsfan]

Read this in Rotoworld's "Bold Predictions" post; I wholeheartedly agree.

Steve Alexander (@docktora)

Alex Len will finish the season in a flurry. Tyson Chandler will finally take a seat at some point for the lowly Suns, and Len will finally be turned loose. I just don't know when it's going to happen, but the All-Star break seems to make sense.

I think it will be time to trade Chandler to a contender. We can reap picks or a young player. I have no beef with Chandler, its just time to move on.

[NavLDO]

Read this in Rotoworld's "Bold Predictions" post; I wholeheartedly agree.

Steve Alexander (@docktora)

Alex Len will finish the season in a flurry. Tyson Chandler will finally take a seat at some point for the lowly Suns, and Len will finally be turned loose. I just don't know when it's going to happen, but the All-Star break seems to make sense.

I think it will be time to trade Chandler to a contender. We can reap picks or a young player. I have no beef with Chandler, its just time to move on.

Full on agree. Even if McD, Watson, Sarver, other coaches...whoever...doesn't have faith in Len, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to trade Chandler to a contender who has a young promising Center, but one not quite ready for primetime...basically, to a team that could benefit from Chandler's playoff experience. I'll post some more excellent trade ideas in our 'speculation' thread!

[bwgood77]

Read this in Rotoworld's "Bold Predictions" post; I wholeheartedly agree.

I think it will be time to trade Chandler to a contender. We can reap picks or a young player. I have no beef with Chandler, its just time to move on.

Full on agree. Even if McD, Watson, Sarver, other coaches...whoever...doesn't have faith in Len, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to trade Chandler to a contender who has a young promising Center, but one not quite ready for primetime...basically, to a team that could benefit from Chandler's playoff experience. I'll post some more excellent trade ideas in our 'speculation' thread!

Which of the 3-5 contenders (if there are even that many) do you think would trade for him?