Is Zach LaVine a Winner?

[PaKii94]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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[Louri]

Bulls FO goal has been clear for long now. Zach Lavine in All-Star is the only thing that could save FO/Boylen some more time. It's all that matters now. It's all about dollars.

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[Ice Man]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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I don't think most fans appreciate how deeply public relations intruded into the Bulls 2018 draft plans. Because the overriding goal was to justify the Butler trade, the Bulls treated Dunn, LaVine, and Lauri as franchise cornerstones, and thus were only going to draft players who were either at the #5 or #3 positions. That eliminated Luka and Trae Young as considerations, among others.

[Mech Engineer]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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I don't think most fans appreciate how deeply public relations intruded into the Bulls 2018 draft plans. Because the overriding goal was to justify the Butler trade, the Bulls treated Dunn, LaVine, and Lauri as franchise cornerstones, and thus were only going to draft players who were either at the #5 or #3 positions. That eliminated Luka and Trae Young as considerations, among others.

It's possible with GarPax and that ego-trip is worse(if true) than the bad evaluation of Dunn or Lauri or Lavine.

Overall, allmost every fringe to diehard Bulls fan is just waiting for Paxson to leave this organization and it looks like he is finding ways to stick around.

[LateNight]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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Given: Lavine has a lot of issues and our offense is not conducive to winning basketball - but the idea that there are tons of guys out there who can consistently hit the kinds of shots Zach hits is just not true.

[CBS7]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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Given: Lavine has a lot of issues and our offense is not conducive to winning basketball - but the idea that there are tons of guys out there who can consistently hit the kinds of shots Zach hits is just not true.

The tweet also implies Zach is an inefficient chucker. He's not. He has his shortcomings as a creater and is a tad turnover prone. But as a pure scorer he is very good.

He has the same TS% as Kawhi, LeBron, and Kyrie. Higher than Mitchell, Beal, DLo, Siakam, CJ, Tatum, Wiggins, and Westbrook.
Among guys averaging 20 a game his BPM is also higher than Mitchell, Derozan, Booker, Tatum, Beal, DLO, Westbrook, Dinwiddie, and CJ.

A lot of the negative things those tweets have said about him may have been true in year's past, but Zach has minimized some of his faults and is clearly having his best year ever. Career high in PER, OBPM, DBPM, BPM. Even stats like WS and VORP which are not per possession based, and we're halfway through the season.

His WINS added according to ESPN's RPM is 9th among SGs (ESPN weirdly lists him as a PG still though, so that number could go up or down).

He's even 11th in the league in steals. Which isn't a great measure of defensive ability but is of defensive effort.

That being said, I agree he's not allstar worthy because our team is terrible. If our team was hovering around .500 I could see it. But there are probably at least 5-6 guards in the East having better seasons.

[cool007]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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Given: Lavine has a lot of issues and our offense is not conducive to winning basketball - but the idea that there are tons of guys out there who can consistently hit the kinds of shots Zach hits is just not true.

Yeah I call that completely BS.

Lavine is one of the leaders in the clutch points and has come up big for us. It's just that no one else can/will step up and our coach does not run plays for anyone else or be creative to win the close games, is not Lavine's fault.

Lavine's defense has been completely fine this year. He may not be a stopper or a great off the ball help but he is not a liability out there and holds his own guarding 1-on-1 etc. I have said in my mind so many times that that was a nice defense by Lavine and hardly many times that oh that was a bad defense by Lavine.

So I call that BS.

[MrSparkle]

Ron Awsumb’s points are valid. I can also see Chicago FO being hell bent on making Zach an all-star. All in all it is pathetic. Though I will say he had improved. Not enough to be a 1 (or frankly even a 2) option, but certainly a rich man’s Cavs JR Smith. I’d give the ASG cause the rest of the East guard situation has been sub-par. Still i don’t think Zach is a favorite over these guys:

Trae, Kemba, Simmons, Brown, injured Kyrie, Beal

And he’s a little favorable over Bledsoe, Brogdon, Dinwiddie... except these guys are actually winning. Seeing as there are no superstar two-way guards in the East, Zach has a shot, but I’d trade him anytime for any of the 6 in the first list.. which means beyond circumstantial stats and injuries (let’s not forget Oladipo is out, and Jimmy kinda plays guard half the time), Zach is a fringe star at best.

Bulls are coached awfully, and it seems guys are all playing to their weaknesses (Dunn and Thad spot up 3P shooters, zero midrange for Lauri, Sato and Dunn low usage for creating passes, etc.).

[Jcool0]

Random scout that randomly pops up on bleacherreport:

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Let not give random twitter posters legitimacy.

[CBS7]

Zach's also up to 40% from 3. There isn't a single player in the NBA with more 3's made at a higher percentage.

Meanwhile the Bulls have 3 of the 7 guys in the NBA with over 290 FGA and a sub .490 TS%. And somehow Zach is responsible for our offensive struggles and he should shoot less.

[CBS7]

30% of our field goals have been taken by Dunn, Thad, and Coby; 3 guys that are legitimately at the bottom of the NBA efficiency wise.

Which brings me back to another point of mine that Lauri needs to be more aggressive/take more shots, but he doesn't have to compete with Zach for shots, Dunn/Thad/Coby should just take less.

[chefo]

30% of our field goals have been taken by Dunn, Thad, and Coby; 3 guys that are legitimately at the bottom of the NBA efficiency wise.

Which brings me back to another point of mine that Lauri needs to be more aggressive/take more shots, but he doesn't have to compete with Zach for shots, Dunn/Thad/Coby should just take less.

Bingo! Let's design a system where our worst (least efficient) scorers get to handle the ball and try to put up points at a higher frequency than our 1b/second option last year. Brilliant!

[FriedRise]

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[coldfish]

30% of our field goals have been taken by Dunn, Thad, and Coby; 3 guys that are legitimately at the bottom of the NBA efficiency wise.

Which brings me back to another point of mine that Lauri needs to be more aggressive/take more shots, but he doesn't have to compete with Zach for shots, Dunn/Thad/Coby should just take less.

Bingo! Let's design a system where our worst (least efficient) scorers get to handle the ball and try to put up points at a higher frequency than our 1b/second option last year. Brilliant!

To some degree, the defenses are forcing this. If you were gameplanning for the Bulls, your goal would be to get Dunn to shoot from the outside. IMO, its really hard to be a perimeter player in today's NBA and not have a 3p shot. If you don't, teams know it and adjust.

The Otto injury really hurt the team but even then, they weren't playing that great with him.

[chefo]

30% of our field goals have been taken by Dunn, Thad, and Coby; 3 guys that are legitimately at the bottom of the NBA efficiency wise.

Which brings me back to another point of mine that Lauri needs to be more aggressive/take more shots, but he doesn't have to compete with Zach for shots, Dunn/Thad/Coby should just take less.

Bingo! Let's design a system where our worst (least efficient) scorers get to handle the ball and try to put up points at a higher frequency than our 1b/second option last year. Brilliant!

To some degree, the defenses are forcing this. If you were gameplanning for the Bulls, your goal would be to get Dunn to shoot from the outside. IMO, its really hard to be a perimeter player in today's NBA and not have a 3p shot. If you don't, teams know it and adjust.

The Otto injury really hurt the team but even then, they weren't playing that great with him.

Agree. If we had a SF that can shoot at a high volume and average accuracy from 3, the wall waiting for Zach when driving would be less of a Chinese Wall where three guys including the C and the SF are just camped in the paint waiting for him. The C would still be there, because our Cs are garbage-men on O, but that would be better than what he's facing right now.

[Chi town]

Ron Awsumb’s points are valid. I can also see Chicago FO being hell bent on making Zach an all-star. All in all it is pathetic. Though I will say he had improved. Not enough to be a 1 (or frankly even a 2) option, but certainly a rich man’s Cavs JR Smith. I’d give the ASG cause the rest of the East guard situation has been sub-par. Still i don’t think Zach is a favorite over these guys:

Trae, Kemba, Simmons, Brown, injured Kyrie, Beal

And he’s a little favorable over Bledsoe, Brogdon, Dinwiddie... except these guys are actually winning. Seeing as there are no superstar two-way guards in the East, Zach has a shot, but I’d trade him anytime for any of the 6 in the first list.. which means beyond circumstantial stats and injuries (let’s not forget Oladipo is out, and Jimmy kinda plays guard half the time), Zach is a fringe star at best.

Bulls are coached awfully, and it seems guys are all playing to their weaknesses (Dunn and Thad spot up 3P shooters, zero midrange for Lauri, Sato and Dunn low usage for creating passes, etc.).

Zach is 24, still improving, and has an elite work ethic to god with his elite 3 ball shooting and creation and elite athleticism. His IQ is still bad but has moved up from awful. Same for his D.

LAVINE HAS NOTHING TO WORK WITH. Lauri sucks and the coaching is even worse with examples you listed.

If we were healthy we’d be close to .500
If Lauri maintained and didn’t decline big time we are close to .500
If Boylen wasn’t the worst in game coach in the league we are close to .500
Instead all are true and we aren’t close to being .500

[FranchisePlayer]

Zach is 24, still improving, and has an elite work ethic to god with his elite 3 ball shooting and creation and elite athleticism. His IQ is still bad but has moved up from awful. Same for his D.

LAVINE HAS NOTHING TO WORK WITH. Lauri sucks and the coaching is even worse with examples you listed.

If we were healthy we’d be close to .500
If Lauri maintained and didn’t decline big time we are close to .500
If Boylen wasn’t the worst in game coach in the league we are close to .500
Instead all are true and we aren’t close to being .500

Which brings to our first lesson: don't smoke crack. And even if you do, don't inhale it.

Why you feel a need to shout something that isn't true even in the case of better players? Everyone has areas to improve on.

Just because his shooting has been really good lately doesn't mean his bb IQ has been too. It's low and maybe has moved up from awful to way below average. Not yet a winner, not yet deserves a place in the ASG - on both accounts he needs to work his a55 off to get there.

[MeloRoseNoah]

I hope that Lavine doesn’t make the All Star game bc this franchise doesn’t deserve any positive media exposure.

I also know that being snubbed from the All Star game will push Lavine harder to improve his overall game.

[MeloRoseNoah]

No single Bulls representative for the All Star weekend.

Yes I don’t even want Coby White in the rookie and sophomore game. I want pure shame and humiliation for Papa Reinsdorf, Baby Michael, Paxson, and the rest of the cronies.

[Jcool0]

Zach is 24, still improving, and has an elite work ethic to god with his elite 3 ball shooting and creation and elite athleticism. His IQ is still bad but has moved up from awful. Same for his D.

LAVINE HAS NOTHING TO WORK WITH. Lauri sucks and the coaching is even worse with examples you listed.

If we were healthy we’d be close to .500
If Lauri maintained and didn’t decline big time we are close to .500
If Boylen wasn’t the worst in game coach in the league we are close to .500
Instead all are true and we aren’t close to being .500

Which brings to our first lesson: don't some crack. And even if you do, don't inhale it.

Why you feel a need to shout something that isn't true even in the case of better players? Everyone has areas to improve on.

Just because his shooting has been really good lately doesn't mean his bb IQ has been too. It's low and maybe has moved up from awful to way below average. Not yet a winner, not yet deserves a place in the ASG - on both accounts he needs to work his a55 off to get there.