OT: Dipo wants out of Indiana

[team edward]

Can we get Oladipo and still maintain max capspace for Giannis? I’d feel a lot more comfortable letting Fred go if we can get Oladipo. He would also be an attractive piece to get Giannis here during free agency.

I think so but we'd have to get the timing right. By the end of the season, both Lowry/Oladipo should be off the books. Then we can sign Giannis and then go over the cap to resign both Oladipo/Lowry if I'm not mistaken.

Unfortunately you are mistaken.

A “cap hold” will exist for Lowry and Oladipo Until they are re-signed or Raps disclaim their bird rights.

[Steelo Green]

Are you telling me you'd prefer Beverly or Bledsoe over Fred on your roster?

You said he’s the best defensive minded PG.

I would take about 20 PGs over Fred.

Who are the 20?

Sure:

Steph
Kyle
Trae
Brogdon
Dame
Irving
Paul
Fox
Simmons
Walker
Lavine
Murray
Dragic
Sexton
DLo Russel
Dragic
Smart
Mitchell
Ball
Graham
Morant
Dinwiddie

All are either better or younger who I would take over him for their potential.

PG is a loaded position.

How much better is Fred than Bledsoe? Schroeder?

Look at the league, Fred is not even elite at his position.

[Steelo Green]

Are you telling me you'd prefer Beverly or Bledsoe over Fred on your roster?

You said he’s the best defensive minded PG.

I would take about 20 PGs over Fred.

I said he's the best defensive-minded point-guard with the 3rd highest value over replacement and net-impact in the league for PG's under 30.

No, you wouldn't take 20 PGs over Fred. That's simply a statement of ignorance. You just have to actually look at a list of the league's PGs to understand how laughable that statement is.

Listed them pretty comfortable with any of them.

[Pointgod]

Can we get Oladipo and still maintain max capspace for Giannis? I’d feel a lot more comfortable letting Fred go if we can get Oladipo. He would also be an attractive piece to get Giannis here during free agency.

I think so but we'd have to get the timing right. By the end of the season, both Lowry/Oladipo should be off the books. Then we can sign Giannis and then go over the cap to resign both Oladipo/Lowry if I'm not mistaken.

Unfortunately you are mistaken.

A “cap hold” will exist for Lowry and Oladipo Until they are re-signed or Raps disclaim their bird rights.

But we could extend Oladipo for a lower cap amount starting in 2020 right? We’d still be able to give him the most years and highest raises per year right?

[SurgeIblocka]

The more i think about it, the more i feel Fred sign and trade for Dipo would be ideal. Allows us more cap space in 2021 rather than using it on Fred this year. This way we could sign Giannis and another player of his liking. Just need to check the numbers if we would have two max spots in 2021based on expiring contracts. Also OG will be up for a big raise as well next year.

Why would Fred want to play in Indy though? He has to want to sign there first. He can just as easily go to NYK or Detroit if he wants. Fred determines what we can get out of any sign and trade (if we even do that with him).

You answered your own question. Indy is a better team than NYK or Detroit. It is also closer to home in Rockford

[SurgeIblocka]

Can anyone in short form explain to me the downside of being a tax team? I’d imagine money itself should never ever be a factor or a problem
For a Toronto based sports team. What are the other implications?

The downside is the repeater tax we dont want. So we need to be out of tax this year. Because we will be in tax on 2021 if we land a big free agent and resign some of our players

[douggood]

I think so but we'd have to get the timing right. By the end of the season, both Lowry/Oladipo should be off the books. Then we can sign Giannis and then go over the cap to resign both Oladipo/Lowry if I'm not mistaken.

Unfortunately you are mistaken.

A “cap hold” will exist for Lowry and Oladipo Until they are re-signed or Raps disclaim their bird rights.

But we could extend Oladipo for a lower cap amount starting in 2020 right? We’d still be able to give him the most years and highest raises per year right?

he current contract is 21$ million, team can only extend him for max 20% raise on that.

so basically a 4 year 110$ extension. as a free agent he can get 4 yr 140ish.

edit exact numbers

EXTENSION CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $112.9 MILLION
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT MAX CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $138.8 MILLION (pre covid cap projections)

[icoholic]

The ability of some Raptors fans in undervaluing their own players never ceases to amaze me. On their board, the Pacers are thinking OG and Siakam would be a fair price for Oladipo alone. LBJKB24MJ23 is here suggesting that the best defensive-minded point-guard with the 3rd highest value over replacement and net-impact in the league for PG's under 30, is worth a potentially damaged Oladipo.

smgdh.

for shame

Lol... I wouldn't take Oladipo for Powell.

If Oladipo wants out, they'll have to sell low. I'd do Powell + Davis in a heartbeat.

I only like players that can stay on the floor, he obviously can't. That's a dumb trade and one the Raptors wouldn't make. (It's different than Kawhi).

[Potential]

If we can trade Powell for him you do it easily. Defensive game changer

[aj174]

I would do Powell, a future first, this year's second and even TD for Dipo if the Celtics are fielding competitive offers. Dipo would be what a second, third option are best with the Celtics. With us he'd be our 1A, 1B. It's like a poor man's version of the Kawhi trade

No way would I be including norm, a first, a 2nd AND TD. Nahh

[fbalmeida]

You said he’s the best defensive minded PG.

I would take about 20 PGs over Fred.

Who are the 20?

Sure:

Steph
Kyle
Trae
Brogdon
Dame
Irving
Paul
Fox
Simmons
Walker
Lavine
Murray
Dragic
Sexton
DLo Russel
Dragic
Smart
Mitchell
Ball
Graham
Morant
Dinwiddie

All are either better or younger who I would take over him for their potential.

PG is a loaded position.

How much better is Fred than Bledsoe? Schroeder?

Look at the league, Fred is not even elite at his position.

Your list has 22 players. You counted Dragic twice, so it's 21.
On the basis of "who to go to war with right now", ignoring age, future progression and contract value, I'd remove:

Irving (a psychological liability)
Trae (a defensive liabililty)
Brogdon
Fox
Simmons (he's not a point guard)
Dragic
Sexton LOOOOOOOOL
DLo Russel
Dragic (twice?)
Smart (more of a 2 anyway)
Mitchell (defensive liability and bad court-vision)
Ball
Graham
Morant
Dinwiddie
and probably Walker.

I'd add Doncic.

That puts Fred as 7th in my book.

If I'm factoring the intangibles such as age, future progression, and contract value, I'd remove:

Kyle
Brogdon
Irving
Paul
Fox
Simmons
Walker
Dragic
Sexton
DLo Russel
Smart
Mitchell
Ball
Dinwiddie
and add Doncic again.

Fred would be my 9th all-league PG, and the best defender of the whole lot going forward.

My list is debatable. Your list is absurd.

[Steelo Green]

Who are the 20?

Sure:

Steph
Kyle
Trae
Brogdon
Dame
Irving
Paul
Fox
Simmons
Walker
Lavine
Murray
Dragic
Sexton
DLo Russel
Dragic
Smart
Mitchell
Ball
Graham
Morant
Dinwiddie

All are either better or younger who I would take over him for their potential.

PG is a loaded position.

How much better is Fred than Bledsoe? Schroeder?

Look at the league, Fred is not even elite at his position.

Your list has 22 players. You counted Dragic twice, so it's 21.
On the basis of "who to go to war with right now", ignoring age, future progression and contract value, I'd remove:

Irving (a psychological liability)
Trae (a defensive liabililty)
Brogdon
Fox
Simmons (he's not a point guard)
Dragic
Sexton LOOOOOOOOL
DLo Russel
Dragic (twice?)
Smart (more of a 2 anyway)
Mitchell (defensive liability and bad court-vision)
Ball
Graham
Morant
Dinwiddie
and probably Walker.

I'd add Doncic.

That puts Fred as 7th in my book.

If I'm factoring the intangibles such as age, future progression, and contract value, I'd remove:

Kyle
Brogdon
Irving
Paul
Fox
Simmons
Walker
Dragic
Sexton
DLo Russel
Smart
Mitchell
Ball
Dinwiddie
and add Doncic again.

Fred would be my 9th all-league PG, and the best defender of the whole lot going forward.

My list is debatable. Your list is absurd.

Only Raptors homers would say the above.

Anyone who would take Fred over Kyrie....

You would take Fred over Trae, Mitchell, Brogdon, Fox, Simmons








Go put a poll and see where people rank Fred if you give them all the guys I listed, and most will put Fred at best in the 15-20 range.

So again, do you pay a guy top 30 player when he's not even top 15 at his position?

I don't care if you say it is my opinion vs yours, no one in their right mind would pick Fred over most of those guys.

Trae, Kyrie, Walker, Paul (even at his age), Brogdon, Mitchell, Kyle, Simmons is insulting to pick Fred over.

For the rest, simple question are the Cavs trading Sexton a soph who averaged 21, 3, 3, with a steal shooting 47 from the field and 38 from three at the age of 21 for Fred?

How about Lonzo?

Most everyone on that list would not trade that PG for Fred, and no matter how you want to spin it, it's true.

Add Doncic and Fred is right around 20 pretty comfortably.

[fbalmeida]

Kyrie is a basketcase.
Take a peek at how the Mitchell - Fred matchups ended up this season.
Defense happens to be half of basketball and Fred is the best defensive PG under 30. That alone puts him inside the top 10.
This season, I'd take Fred over Trae in the playoffs. For the future, I made it clear that I wouldn't. Fred is a superior 2-way PG than anything I've seen from Brogdon or Fox. Simmons is a casting error at PG.

The suggestion of Sexton is particularly laughable.

Players are paid according to what they are worth in terms of the franchise's bottom line. It's why Fred will likely never command a salary comparable to DeRozan's even though Fred will most likely accumulate more rings than DeRozan ever will.

Carry on...

[fbalmeida]

Fred's statistical detractors are obviously finishing inside. He's a poor finisher at the rim but still better than Graham, Brogdon, or Smart at it.

Steelo is suggesting there are 21 PG better than Fred. But among qualifying relevant PGs (Simmons is not a PG) Fred is:

7th in 3pt%
3rd in steals.
1st in deflections.
5th in defensive rating.
11th in offensive win shares.
2nd in defensive win shares.
5th in DBPM
8th in BPM
8th in VORP.

He's younger than 4 of the 7 PG's with a higher VORP and BPM.

[Pointgod]

Unfortunately you are mistaken.

A “cap hold” will exist for Lowry and Oladipo Until they are re-signed or Raps disclaim their bird rights.

But we could extend Oladipo for a lower cap amount starting in 2020 right? We’d still be able to give him the most years and highest raises per year right?

he current contract is 21$ million, team can only extend him for max 20% raise on that.

so basically a 4 year 110$ extension. as a free agent he can get 4 yr 140ish.

edit exact numbers

EXTENSION CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $112.9 MILLION
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT MAX CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $138.8 MILLION (pre covid cap projections)

But could structure the contract in a way that he takes less in 2021? So let’s say he goes down to 18 million in year one then he gets the full 4 year extension. Couldn’t we provide a 5 year extension with bird rights?

[Pointgod]

I would do Powell, a future first, this year's second and even TD for Dipo if the Celtics are fielding competitive offers. Dipo would be what a second, third option are best with the Celtics. With us he'd be our 1A, 1B. It's like a poor man's version of the Kawhi trade

No way would I be including norm, a first, a 2nd AND TD. Nahh

Exactly. Remember the injury is the only reason we can buy low AND he’s asked out which should drop his trade value. I think Norm and a first is fine value, would be even better if Fred was interested in going there and we could flip Norm for an asset.

[fbalmeida]

Oladipo wanting out, Holliday likely leaving, and with Brogdon and Lamb dogged by nasty injuries, they could use some fresh legs at the 2 spot. Powell + Davis + matching contracts + a first, might sound risible for Oladipo, but that might be enough.

[douggood]

But we could extend Oladipo for a lower cap amount starting in 2020 right? We’d still be able to give him the most years and highest raises per year right?

he current contract is 21$ million, team can only extend him for max 20% raise on that.

so basically a 4 year 110$ extension. as a free agent he can get 4 yr 140ish.

edit exact numbers

EXTENSION CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $112.9 MILLION
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT MAX CONTRACT: 4 YEARS, $138.8 MILLION (pre covid cap projections)

But could structure the contract in a way that he takes less in 2021? So let’s say he goes down to 18 million in year one then he gets the full 4 year extension. Couldn’t we provide a 5 year extension with bird rights?

18 mil year one, then 8% raise is max he could recieve, that is less than the 4 yr 112 mil

its actually just 4 year 80.6$ million dollar contract.

[Psubs]

No extension. Make him take around the same amount to form a super team with Giannis. I think as long as he gets over $20 million per year he'd be okay with it. With his injury history maybe he takes a cheaper extension and avoid get burned like IT.

$22-20-22-24 million maybe add a player option 4th year and give him easy incentives?

[dacrusha]

Oladipo is finished... one good season in five; one could comfortably say that season is an outlier.

And now, saddled with a career altering injury that took away all of his speed?

No thanks, says Masai.