Game 21: Minnesota Timberwolves vs Indiana Pacers (7:00pm Central)

[winforlose]

KAT with 9 Turnovers today...he also must be the player with most number of offensive fouls in the league..so so frustrating because he gets into foul trouble so frequely. Lot of his offensive calls are due to his use of elbow when he is driving or in the post. Hope Finch and coaching team can address this. Another problem is that I feel like KAT wants to be a playmaker like Jokic but he doesn't have the consistency or touch like Jokic when it comes to passing...he will have one or two really flashy passes but also 2-3 bad turnovers every game due to some really awkward passes. That behind the shoulder pass that he tries when he is doubled rarely works.

His dribble drives give me anxiety. He’s either likely to miss, turnover, offensive foul or land on his wrist.

Sorry buddy this one gets a minus one. He has been phenomenal off the dribble this year. Again he got fouled here, and a bunch of other times. A real ref sends KAT to the line for 10 more and we win big.

Also worth noting for all the JO haters out there, we held them under 100 without Beverly, MCD, or V8 and with KAT in foul trouble most of the fourth, and with Prince getting real minutes. How do you think that happens?

[shrink]

I wonder tho, is the team better off without KAT in the clutch?

I know it’s irrational, but when Towns fouled out, I actually felt more confident we’d win a close game.

[life_saver]

Okogie with the defensive play of the night. KAT on the other hand, was a total disaster. We would’ve lost the game if he was on the court the last minute

I wouldn't call KAT's performance as a total disaster...he still scored 32 and shot 13/22 from field...his turnovers are what are frustrating

[life_saver]

I wonder tho, is the team better off without KAT in the clutch?

I know it’s irrational, but when Towns fouled out, I actually felt more confident we’d win a close game.

it really comes down to how you use KAT in clutch...outside Jokic, pretty much all the big men struggle in clutch...if you are using KAT off-ball in clutch and put the ball in hands of DLo or Ant, then he can work well

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

KAT with 9 Turnovers today...he also must be the player with most number of offensive fouls in the league..so so frustrating because he gets into foul trouble so frequely. Lot of his offensive calls are due to his use of elbow when he is driving or in the post. Hope Finch and coaching team can address this. Another problem is that I feel like KAT wants to be a playmaker like Jokic but he doesn't have the consistency or touch like Jokic when it comes to passing...he will have one or two really flashy passes but also 2-3 bad turnovers every game due to some really awkward passes. That behind the shoulder pass that he tries when he is doubled rarely works.

His dribble drives give me anxiety. He’s either likely to miss, turnover, offensive foul or land on his wrist.

Sorry buddy this one gets a minus one. He has been phenomenal off the dribble this year. Again he got fouled here, and a bunch of other times. A real ref sends KAT to the line for 10 more and we win big.

Also worth noting for all the JO haters out there, we held them under 100 without Beverly, MCD, or V8 and with KAT in foul trouble most of the fourth, and with Prince getting real minutes. How do you think that happens?

Maybe. I thought KAT had phenomenal post moves tonight. I think you’re right…but it’s also a point when someone like sabonis has 5 personal fouls, kats gonna do anything and everything to try and draw #5 which leads to some pretty ugly drives and awkward falls

[winforlose]

His dribble drives give me anxiety. He’s either likely to miss, turnover, offensive foul or land on his wrist.

Sorry buddy this one gets a minus one. He has been phenomenal off the dribble this year. Again he got fouled here, and a bunch of other times. A real ref sends KAT to the line for 10 more and we win big.

Also worth noting for all the JO haters out there, we held them under 100 without Beverly, MCD, or V8 and with KAT in foul trouble most of the fourth, and with Prince getting real minutes. How do you think that happens?

Maybe. I thought KAT had phenomenal post moves tonight. I think you’re right…but it’s also a point when someone like sabonis has 5 personal fouls, kats gonna do anything and everything to try and draw #5 which leads to some pretty ugly drives and awkward falls

KAT did what he should do, attacked the smalls to force the attention of the bigs. It worked, Ant had a lane just missed a bunch of layups. KAT needs to shoot more 3s, but he also needs to attack and get to the line. Problem is sometimes he is wild, sometimes the contact knocks him down and sometimes he falls trying to get to the line.

[King Malta]

Although he's been near unplayable lately (Philly winner aside, thanks for that mate), the hope I have with Prince (and although he hasn't been anywhere near as bad; Beasley) is that he's currently shooting well, well below his career average and I don't think it's a sustainable dip.

If he can get that shot up to his career average then he's a handy player given our shooting needs.

As far as the overall performance; great win for this team. This is definitely one that we would have dropped in years past, as was the Philly game. DLo has been incredible over this stretch, and if this is the guy we're getting this season then I'm all in on him.

[life_saver]

I do wonder what our FO is gonna do with Okogie next off-season...I am leaning towards not re-signing Okogie unless you can get him back for something <$4M per year...he is just way too much of a liability offensively and has barely shown any improvement in his shooting over the his 4 seasons in NBA so far

[life_saver]

Although he's been near unplayable lately (Philly winner aside, thanks for that mate), the hope I have with Prince (and although he hasn't been anywhere near as bad; Beasley) is that he's currently shooting well, well below his career average and I don't think it's a sustainable dip.

If he can get that shot up to his career average then he's a handy player given our shooting needs.

Great win for this team. This is definitely one that we would have dropped in years past, as was the Philly game.

yeah..I feel like Prince has done pretty good job on boards and defensively in last few games..but the 3 pt shot just hasn't been going in.

[theGreatRC]

I do wonder what our FO is gonna do with Okogie next off-season...I am leaning towards not re-signing Okogie unless you can get him back for something <$4M per year...he is just way too much of a liability offensively and has barely shown any improvement in his shooting over the his 4 seasons in NBA so far

Def would take him back on a Vando type deal.

Naz on the other hand, that's going to be interesting

[King Malta]

I do wonder what our FO is gonna do with Okogie next off-season...I am leaning towards not re-signing Okogie unless you can get him back for something <$4M per year...he is just way too much of a liability offensively and has barely shown any improvement in his shooting over the his 4 seasons in NBA so far

At this point I see Okogie as a purely situational player. He's a plus defender who offers you absolutely nothing offensively. There's situations where he can be useful, see tonight when we were missing 3 of our better defenders, but his position on our roster would barely justify a deal above the minimum IMO.

[_AIJ_]

Okogie with the defensive play of the night. KAT on the other hand, was a total disaster. We would’ve lost the game if he was on the court the last minute

I wouldn't call KAT's performance as a total disaster...he still scored 32 and shot 13/22 from field...his turnovers are what are frustrating

Exactly my point

[Calinks]

KAT with 9 Turnovers today...he also must be the player with most number of offensive fouls in the league..so so frustrating because he gets into foul trouble so frequely. Lot of his offensive calls are due to his use of elbow when he is driving or in the post. Hope Finch and coaching team can address this. Another problem is that I feel like KAT wants to be a playmaker like Jokic but he doesn't have the consistency or touch like Jokic when it comes to passing...he will have one or two really flashy passes but also 2-3 bad turnovers every game due to some really awkward passes. That behind the shoulder pass that he tries when he is doubled rarely works.

His dribble drives give me anxiety. He’s either likely to miss, turnover, offensive foul or land on his wrist.

yeah..I am always scared when he drives and takes a fall..it feels like an injury waiting to happen. He just needs to make smart decisions and cut down some of these drives unless the team is in desperate situation

Drivers are reckless. He flops to the floor when he doesn't get calls. Other team gets a 5 of 4 break. Refs get more pissed. It's a horrible part of his game. This wasn't a big issue in his early years but this is a big problem now.

[King Malta]

His dribble drives give me anxiety. He’s either likely to miss, turnover, offensive foul or land on his wrist.

yeah..I am always scared when he drives and takes a fall..it feels like an injury waiting to happen. He just needs to make smart decisions and cut down some of these drives unless the team is in desperate situation

Drivers are reckless. He flops to the floor when he doesn't get calls. Other team gets a 5 of 4 break. Refs get more pissed. It's a horrible part of his game. This wasn't a big issue in his early years but this is a big problem now.

It's been pointed out a bit on this forum, but it really seems to me that he's struggling a little bit with his change in weight-class and is overcompensating with some of his post moves, leading to foul calls. Couple this with the fact that he's never really had a generous whistle and he's seemingly starting to develop a bit of a victim complex. It may already be happening, but it's pretty important that the coaching staff actually sit him down and go over the vision of what he's getting done for and why, so that KAT can see it and correct and also start to cease the constant blaming of officials.

[winforlose]

yeah..I am always scared when he drives and takes a fall..it feels like an injury waiting to happen. He just needs to make smart decisions and cut down some of these drives unless the team is in desperate situation

Drivers are reckless. He flops to the floor when he doesn't get calls. Other team gets a 5 of 4 break. Refs get more pissed. It's a horrible part of his game. This wasn't a big issue in his early years but this is a big problem now.

It's been pointed out a bit on this forum, but it really seems to me that he's struggling a little bit with his change in weight-class and is overcompensating with some of his post moves, leading to foul calls. Couple this with the fact that he's never really had a generous whistle and he's seemingly starting to develop a bit of a victim complex. It may already be happening, but it's pretty important that the coaching staff actually sit him down and go over the vision of what he's getting done for and why, so that KAT can see it and correct and also start to cease the constant blaming of officials.

I see your point but I have to disagree. KAT must attack. It’s not a question of should or should not, he has no choice in the matter. Put aside the issue of whistles or no whistles, he should fall less, but must attack. Not only are we very short on play makers, but they are putting smalls on him. If KAT doesn’t attack the offense stalls. Also, KAT should have fouled out Sabonis and won this game, much like he should have fouled out Embiid and won the last game.

Personally I hate Karl complaining every play. It is made worse on the occasions he doesn’t get back. Worse still is when he flops and doesn’t get back. But, and I cannot stress this enough, KAT won this game for us. He scored almost half of our first half points by himself and punished the Pacers for putting smalls on him. He also guarded their best player (Sabonis) and though he couldn’t stop him on the glass, did stop him in the scoring, keeping him 1.5 points below his season average. Never mind scoring 32 points on 22 shots with a hurt finger on his shooting hand and getting to the line 8 out of our 26 free throws. You guys should be going after Ant, not KAT. How many layups did he miss? How little defense did he play in the first half. 21 points on 19 shots and 2/7 for 3.

Karl may have his problems, but he is MVP of this team by a wide margin, and if he got close to the level of whistles he deserves he would be MVP of this league.

[life_saver]

Drivers are reckless. He flops to the floor when he doesn't get calls. Other team gets a 5 of 4 break. Refs get more pissed. It's a horrible part of his game. This wasn't a big issue in his early years but this is a big problem now.

It's been pointed out a bit on this forum, but it really seems to me that he's struggling a little bit with his change in weight-class and is overcompensating with some of his post moves, leading to foul calls. Couple this with the fact that he's never really had a generous whistle and he's seemingly starting to develop a bit of a victim complex. It may already be happening, but it's pretty important that the coaching staff actually sit him down and go over the vision of what he's getting done for and why, so that KAT can see it and correct and also start to cease the constant blaming of officials.

I see your point but I have to disagree. KAT must attack. It’s not a question of should or should not, he has no choice in the matter. Put aside the issue of whistles or no whistles, he should fall less, but must attack. Not only are we very short on play makers, but they are putting smalls on him. If KAT doesn’t attack the offense stalls. Also, KAT should have fouled out Sabonis and won this game, much like he should have fouled out Embiid and won the last game.

Personally I hate Karl complaining every play. It is made worse on the occasions he doesn’t get back. Worse still is when he flops and doesn’t get back. But, and I cannot stress this enough, KAT won this game for us. He scored almost half of our first half points by himself and punished the Pacers for putting smalls on him. He also guarded their best player (Sabonis) and though he couldn’t stop him on the glass, did stop him in the scoring, keeping him 1.5 points below his season average. Never mind scoring 32 points on 22 shots with a hurt finger on his shooting hand and getting to the line 8 out of our 26 free throws. You guys should be going after Ant, not KAT. How many layups did he miss? How little defense did he play in the first half. 21 points on 19 shots and 2/7 for 3.

Karl may have his problems, but he is MVP of this team by a wide margin, and if he got close to the level of whistles he deserves he would be MVP of this league.

I don't think anyone is denying that KAT is the most important player of the team..I am personally more worried about his chances of getting injured whenever he has awkwards falls on these drives...how often do you see big men driving so much and having so many bad falls every match?

[Calinks]

Drivers are reckless. He flops to the floor when he doesn't get calls. Other team gets a 5 of 4 break. Refs get more pissed. It's a horrible part of his game. This wasn't a big issue in his early years but this is a big problem now.

It's been pointed out a bit on this forum, but it really seems to me that he's struggling a little bit with his change in weight-class and is overcompensating with some of his post moves, leading to foul calls. Couple this with the fact that he's never really had a generous whistle and he's seemingly starting to develop a bit of a victim complex. It may already be happening, but it's pretty important that the coaching staff actually sit him down and go over the vision of what he's getting done for and why, so that KAT can see it and correct and also start to cease the constant blaming of officials.

I see your point but I have to disagree. KAT must attack. It’s not a question of should or should not, he has no choice in the matter. Put aside the issue of whistles or no whistles, he should fall less, but must attack. Not only are we very short on play makers, but they are putting smalls on him. If KAT doesn’t attack the offense stalls. Also, KAT should have fouled out Sabonis and won this game, much like he should have fouled out Embiid and won the last game.

Personally I hate Karl complaining every play. It is made worse on the occasions he doesn’t get back. Worse still is when he flops and doesn’t get back. But, and I cannot stress this enough, KAT won this game for us. He scored almost half of our first half points by himself and punished the Pacers for putting smalls on him. He also guarded their best player (Sabonis) and though he couldn’t stop him on the glass, did stop him in the scoring, keeping him 1.5 points below his season average. Never mind scoring 32 points on 22 shots with a hurt finger on his shooting hand and getting to the line 8 out of our 26 free throws. You guys should be going after Ant, not KAT. How many layups did he miss? How little defense did he play in the first half. 21 points on 19 shots and 2/7 for 3.

Karl may have his problems, but he is MVP of this team by a wide margin, and if he got close to the level of whistles he deserves he would be MVP of this league.

Good point and yes, its not that he should never attack. He had been cooking several bigs with his attack. It's just he needs to do it judiciously. He needs to stop falling and being wreckless on drives, and he needs to not complain. Win, keep quiet, and keep being aggressive, the while will come in time.

[winforlose]

It's been pointed out a bit on this forum, but it really seems to me that he's struggling a little bit with his change in weight-class and is overcompensating with some of his post moves, leading to foul calls. Couple this with the fact that he's never really had a generous whistle and he's seemingly starting to develop a bit of a victim complex. It may already be happening, but it's pretty important that the coaching staff actually sit him down and go over the vision of what he's getting done for and why, so that KAT can see it and correct and also start to cease the constant blaming of officials.

I see your point but I have to disagree. KAT must attack. It’s not a question of should or should not, he has no choice in the matter. Put aside the issue of whistles or no whistles, he should fall less, but must attack. Not only are we very short on play makers, but they are putting smalls on him. If KAT doesn’t attack the offense stalls. Also, KAT should have fouled out Sabonis and won this game, much like he should have fouled out Embiid and won the last game.

Personally I hate Karl complaining every play. It is made worse on the occasions he doesn’t get back. Worse still is when he flops and doesn’t get back. But, and I cannot stress this enough, KAT won this game for us. He scored almost half of our first half points by himself and punished the Pacers for putting smalls on him. He also guarded their best player (Sabonis) and though he couldn’t stop him on the glass, did stop him in the scoring, keeping him 1.5 points below his season average. Never mind scoring 32 points on 22 shots with a hurt finger on his shooting hand and getting to the line 8 out of our 26 free throws. You guys should be going after Ant, not KAT. How many layups did he miss? How little defense did he play in the first half. 21 points on 19 shots and 2/7 for 3.

Karl may have his problems, but he is MVP of this team by a wide margin, and if he got close to the level of whistles he deserves he would be MVP of this league.

I don't think anyone is denying that KAT is the most important player of the team..I am personally more worried about his chances of getting injured whenever he has awkwards falls on these drives...how often do you see big men driving so much and having so many bad falls every match?

Your not wrong. But he is a PF not a C and on team where no one but Ant and Dlo drives and not enough from either of them. Worse still, a lot of those falls are because he is fouled and loses his balance. I wish he would stop, but refs need to protect him or at least call it even and don’t.

[karch34]

I think KAT has actually reigned it in a lot complaining wise when you look at games from earlier this year but yeah he still has a ways to go. It’s the ones where he shouldn’t say anything that hurts the egregious ones that don’t go his way.

Some bad shooting in the back court but nice rebounding. I do think getting these wins that have no style points will help.

Prince is respected as a vet which has value but he’s the contract that needs to be moved for a legit big IMO.

[Neeva]

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I do wonder what our FO is gonna do with Okogie next off-season...I am leaning towards not re-signing Okogie unless you can get him back for something <$4M per year...he is just way too much of a liability offensively and has barely shown any improvement in his shooting over the his 4 seasons in NBA so far

anything more than 2-3 million per is too much for him tbh.