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Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#161 » by JShuttlesworth » Fri Apr 8, 2022 1:49 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:That drive and dunk where he got called for a push off was shades of things to come imo. He’s still processing how to attack off the bounce from the 3 point line outward and even in transition. This is something Siakam or Giannis are great at, just go forward and figure it out. Scottie tends to wait or stop rather then force it, which is good for possession handling but kills potential scoring opportunity.


I came here to post about the same play. That drive was something else, power and skill
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#162 » by OakleyDokely » Fri Apr 8, 2022 2:09 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20&t=dwVM9l20WiaUYdmob-4uSg
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#163 » by brownbobcat » Fri Apr 8, 2022 2:51 pm

DG88 wrote:
Read on Twitter

Thank you, really great article with tons of background info. The parts I thought were very telling:

"He's pretty advanced," VanVleet says. "It's either he's really advanced or he's just super talented or, probably, a combination of both. His reads are OK. He gets sped up -- you know, he's still 20 years old, he's figuring it out -- but he makes some good passes. He's understanding the game plan. And then he just goes out there and plays."

Basketball is Barnes' job now, but he says that watching film doesn't feel like work. Unlike plenty of his peers, he prefers full games to highlights. In November, after a one-point loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers at Scotiabank Arena, he ordered food and put on the Golden State Warriors vs. New Orleans Pelicans game. Jordan, who was visiting him, says Barnes was "standing in front of the TV and all into it."


Physically, he's got every tool in the bag (except maybe lateral quickness). Skill-wise, just needs to tighten up shooting, handle and footwork. Mentally, he shows an absurd level of drive, poise and motor. This is as scary as watching a young TMac in Toronto. He'd have these sequences that would just leave your jaw on the floor followed by long stretches where he'd be invisible, and you just knew superstardom was possible if he could put it all together.

The difference is that Scottie is so advanced and mature, it's almost impossible to me that he doesn't make it. Footwork and handle are incredibly easy things to improve on with time & reps. Even if he tops out as an average shooter (like LeBron), he's still a walking mismatch.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#164 » by TNRaps4life » Fri Apr 8, 2022 2:53 pm

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#165 » by DG88 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 3:33 pm

I've been reading a few article from voters on ROTY and it's almost and even split between Mobley and Barnes.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#166 » by dTox » Fri Apr 8, 2022 3:40 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
LLJ wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:Kawhi was a way better functional athlete than Barnes is. Elite lateral quickness, has that first step with explosiveness + strenght.

Barnes only has 1 of those at the moment, he may not ever get that lateral quickness but I think he can work on his explosiveness with better foot work.


Kawhi is stronger and has a better jumpshot. Barnes has better court vision and a better nose for rebounds. I don’t think athleticism is a big factor here. It’s skill, Kawhi jumpshot is elite for a SF, Barnes still working on it


Ya. Kawhi's a good athlete, but he's not blowing by guys because of his athleticism or first step. He's a very strong dude whose able to finish strong at the rim and because teams need respect his elite jump shot, they need to play him pretty tight, and that opens up opportunities for him to drive.


One of the most teachable skill (if you have the body for it) that Kawhi excels at, is creating separation from his opponent using his his shoulders, which then opens up his jumpshot or drives to the basket. Scottie is barely scratching the surface with this aspect of his game, and I'm fairly certain it will be an easy skill for him to learn, once he understands how to maneuver the officiating.
An example of that, where its a work in progress for him; is last night, where he was able to create that separation using his shoulder for that monstrous dunk, and the officials called an offensive foul.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#167 » by brownbobcat » Fri Apr 8, 2022 3:46 pm

dTox wrote:One of the most teachable skill (if you have the body for it) that Kawhi excels at, is creating separation from his opponent using his his shoulders, which then opens up his jumpshot or drives to the basket. Scottie is barely scratching the surface with this aspect of his game, and I'm fairly certain it will be an easy skill for him to learn, once he understands how to maneuver the officiating.
An example of that, where its a work in progress for him; is last night, where he was able to create that separation using his shoulder for that monstrous dunk, and the officials called an offensive foul.

He'll learn. When Kawhi does it, he doesn't go at full speed/strength, which helps to conserve energy and avoid foul calls like that.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#168 » by DG88 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 5:20 pm

More ROTY talk on the Dunker Spot podcast hosted by Steve Jones Jr.

Starts at 21:55

Also Raptors vs Sixers stuff to start

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4pYysVoKWWfZ1JXcWu1mH4?si=c4881cd43257432a
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#169 » by EFF3KT » Fri Apr 8, 2022 5:37 pm

SI Article on the ROTY Race..

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/08/nba-rookie-rankings-scottie-barnes-evan-mobley-cade-cunningham-awards

This is going to be a photo finish. Regardless, Scottie has played like a ROTY win or lose. Ultimately, this franchise wins. :D
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#170 » by DG88 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 7:47 pm

Zac Harper is now leaning Barnes!

Rookie of the Year
Criteria: My criteria for how you earn the ROY award are based both on how I view the award and what a lot of voting in the NBA’s past has said about the winners of the award.

Are you a big story in the NBA? Three years ago, this was “Are you Luka Doncic?” and it was pretty self-explanatory. If you can capture being a storyline as a rookie, you have a huge upper hand.
Cool stats for a rookie — Most of the time, ROY goes to the leading rookie scorer.
Team success — It usually doesn’t matter for ROY, but team success can be a tiebreaker for some.


3. Cade Cunningham, Detroit Pistons
2. Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
1. Scottie Barnes, Toronto Raptors
Reasoning: It happened just in this final week of ruminating on this award. All season long, I’ve been saying it was Mobley’s award, and it truly felt like that. It might still feel like that by the time I submit my final ballot. And the push that Cunningham made after a really rough first month of his career certainly made this a lot more interesting in trying to figure out what to value here. I rarely use team success as a factor for Rookie of the Year, but considering these three candidates are so close, it ended up being a tiebreaker that Cunningham simply couldn’t win. So it pushes him to third and leaves me deciding between Barnes and Mobley.

So, why is Barnes in the top spot here? They actually have a lot of similarities. Mobley has been special defensively and a guy who gets his points efficiently despite never really having plays called for him all that much. Barnes hasn’t quite been what Mobley has shown defensively, but he rarely makes mistakes as a rookie defender, and he’s a big part of Nick Nurse’s defense that flies all over the floor and uses his versatility to throw him anywhere in that half-court scheme. He also doesn’t really get a lot of plays directly called for him, as he fills in the gaps to score. His offense has been above Mobley’s, and Mobley’s defense has been above Barnes. But I don’t think either one is so completely tilted one way against the other that it creates this big disparity.

Barnes edges out Mobley here (for now, with nothing official yet from me) for two reasons: 1) They’ve been about even over the course of the season, and Barnes has five more games and roughly 250-plus minutes more on the court than Mobley. 2) The tiebreaker here ends up with Barnes contributing to a slightly better team. Yes, Mobley’s team has seen a decline with him being injured as of late, but again, these two are so close that it requires some nitpicking. This isn’t most valuable rookie. It’s who’s had the best season, and Barnes just might be the guy to edge Mobley off this throne. I think…


https://theathletic.com/3232455/2022/04/08/giannis-jokic-embiid-mvp/?source=nbatw
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#171 » by lolwut » Fri Apr 8, 2022 7:56 pm

DG88 wrote:Zac Harper is now leaning Barnes!
Spoiler:
Rookie of the Year
Criteria: My criteria for how you earn the ROY award are based both on how I view the award and what a lot of voting in the NBA’s past has said about the winners of the award.

Are you a big story in the NBA? Three years ago, this was “Are you Luka Doncic?” and it was pretty self-explanatory. If you can capture being a storyline as a rookie, you have a huge upper hand.
Cool stats for a rookie — Most of the time, ROY goes to the leading rookie scorer.
Team success — It usually doesn’t matter for ROY, but team success can be a tiebreaker for some.


3. Cade Cunningham, Detroit Pistons
2. Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
1. Scottie Barnes, Toronto Raptors
Reasoning: It happened just in this final week of ruminating on this award. All season long, I’ve been saying it was Mobley’s award, and it truly felt like that. It might still feel like that by the time I submit my final ballot. And the push that Cunningham made after a really rough first month of his career certainly made this a lot more interesting in trying to figure out what to value here. I rarely use team success as a factor for Rookie of the Year, but considering these three candidates are so close, it ended up being a tiebreaker that Cunningham simply couldn’t win. So it pushes him to third and leaves me deciding between Barnes and Mobley.

So, why is Barnes in the top spot here? They actually have a lot of similarities. Mobley has been special defensively and a guy who gets his points efficiently despite never really having plays called for him all that much. Barnes hasn’t quite been what Mobley has shown defensively, but he rarely makes mistakes as a rookie defender, and he’s a big part of Nick Nurse’s defense that flies all over the floor and uses his versatility to throw him anywhere in that half-court scheme. He also doesn’t really get a lot of plays directly called for him, as he fills in the gaps to score. His offense has been above Mobley’s, and Mobley’s defense has been above Barnes. But I don’t think either one is so completely tilted one way against the other that it creates this big disparity.

Barnes edges out Mobley here (for now, with nothing official yet from me) for two reasons: 1) They’ve been about even over the course of the season, and Barnes has five more games and roughly 250-plus minutes more on the court than Mobley. 2) The tiebreaker here ends up with Barnes contributing to a slightly better team. Yes, Mobley’s team has seen a decline with him being injured as of late, but again, these two are so close that it requires some nitpicking. This isn’t most valuable rookie. It’s who’s had the best season, and Barnes just might be the guy to edge Mobley off this throne. I think…

https://theathletic.com/3232455/2022/04/08/giannis-jokic-embiid-mvp/?source=nbatw

Our main guys have been in and out of the lineup throughout the season - OG, Siakam, FVV, Trent

The one constant in the starting lineup, aside from a few games around the all-star break, has been Barnes. His impact and ability to step up when called upon has been immense for the Raptors. Meanwhile, the Cavs have fallen apart since Allen went down. Despite Mobley's reputation on defense, the Cavs defense has really fallen off.

There's a reason why Barnes is near the top for every advanced metric, and the Raptors are ahead of the Cavs in the standings. Barnes is simply better than Mobley.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#172 » by niQ » Fri Apr 8, 2022 7:57 pm

DG88 wrote:I've been reading a few article from voters on ROTY and it's almost and even split between Mobley and Barnes.


It's so close that we may finally see the elusive Co-ROTY.

I know a lot of fans want to see their rookie win the award, but even if he doesn't, we still got (literally) one of the Top 2 best from a loaded draft class at 4th pick and whom will be a cornerstone of the franchise. Our "development" year still landed us in the 5th seed :lol:
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#173 » by DG88 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 8:05 pm

niQ wrote:
DG88 wrote:I've been reading a few article from voters on ROTY and it's almost and even split between Mobley and Barnes.


It's so close that we may finally see the elusive Co-ROTY.

I know a lot of fans want to see their rookie win the award, but even if he doesn't, we still got (literally) one of the Top 2 best from a loaded draft class at 4th pick and whom will be a cornerstone of the franchise. Our "development" year still landed us in the 5th seed :lol:

The last time that happened was 22 years ago when Steve Francis and Elton Brand won it.

We got so damn lucky that Tampa tank worked out in our favour!
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#174 » by niQ » Fri Apr 8, 2022 8:10 pm

DG88 wrote:
niQ wrote:
DG88 wrote:I've been reading a few article from voters on ROTY and it's almost and even split between Mobley and Barnes.


It's so close that we may finally see the elusive Co-ROTY.

I know a lot of fans want to see their rookie win the award, but even if he doesn't, we still got (literally) one of the Top 2 best from a loaded draft class at 4th pick and whom will be a cornerstone of the franchise. Our "development" year still landed us in the 5th seed :lol:

The last time that happened was 22 years ago when Steve Francis and Elton Brand won it.

We got so damn lucky that Tampa tank worked out in our favour!


Yea, that jump from 7th to 4th was a godsend. I remember the draft thread talks of Keon Johnson, Moses Moody, Davion Mitchell and James Bouknight at 7th.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#175 » by DG88 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 8:14 pm

niQ wrote:
DG88 wrote:
niQ wrote:
It's so close that we may finally see the elusive Co-ROTY.

I know a lot of fans want to see their rookie win the award, but even if he doesn't, we still got (literally) one of the Top 2 best from a loaded draft class at 4th pick and whom will be a cornerstone of the franchise. Our "development" year still landed us in the 5th seed :lol:

The last time that happened was 22 years ago when Steve Francis and Elton Brand won it.

We got so damn lucky that Tampa tank worked out in our favour!


Yea, that jump from 7th to 4th was a godsend. I remember the draft thread talks of Keon Johnson, Moses Moody, Davion Mitchell and James Bouknight at 7th.

Funny Keon Johnson finally got some burn on Portland and looks pretty damn good. Only Bouknight has underperformed from the top picks. This draft added the next generation of stars into the league. It's going to be a fun decade of basketball.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#176 » by tanuki1031 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 9:16 pm

ESPN media guys like Pelton are such tools. Pelton and Lowe spent more time gushing about Herb Jones' defensive prowess than Barnes FFS. Apparently Jones is second to Mobley.

These morons ignore everything else and cherry pick the areas that serve their bias (on/off numbers) and proceed to ignore their same philosophy to deny Siakam and FVV of All-NBA/Defensive team because suddenly on/offs don't matter against perception, basic stats, and team records.

Scottie winning ROTY would truly be a testament to the kind of player and person he his, one big enough to overthrow deeply rooted agendas.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#177 » by LoveMyRaps » Fri Apr 8, 2022 9:36 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
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Lol literally would be criminal to give Mobley the award at this stage. Dude's such an offensive liability without Garland tossing him up lobs.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#178 » by Vampirate » Sat Apr 9, 2022 3:58 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
Ya. Kawhi's a good athlete, but he's not blowing by guys because of his athleticism or first step. He's a very strong dude whose able to finish strong at the rim and because teams need respect his elite jump shot, they need to play him pretty tight, and that opens up opportunities for him to drive.


Having a jump shot opens up his first step so you're probably right.


Right now, defenders are playing off on Barnes, giving him the jump shot. If Barnes develops that midrange game like Kawhi did, it's scary to think what he could become because he's already pretty elite around the rim.


Here's an odd stat for you

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From 10 feet to the 3 point line, Barnes is shooting 20.4% of his total shots and is getting it in at about a 39.05% clip.

At the 3 point line Barnes is shooting 20.6% of his shots at a 29.8% clip.

Barnes efficiency from inside the 3 point line and outside the 3 point line is drastic, he basically shoots 10% better once he's inside the three point line, even for stuff like long 2 point shots.

For some reason if Barnes takes a step inside the 3 point line he straight up becomes a better shooter this year.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#179 » by Basketball_Jones » Sat Apr 9, 2022 4:59 pm

Mobleys great but I don’t understand how he’s ROY when he’s essentially a finisher and not a creator. Now his team has a worse record. To me it’s a thin argument for him, I don’t understand it.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread 3 

Post#180 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Apr 9, 2022 5:18 pm

The Ringer's Dan Devine (who is confirmed to have a vote) picked Scottie for ROTY:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/4/7/23014604/nba-awards-mvp-giannis-antetokounmpo-nikola-jokic-joel-embiid


I'll keep updating but so far the confirmed voters who have Scottie as their pick for ROTY are:

1. Dan Devine
2. Stephen A Smith
3. Kendrick Perkins
4. Jared Greenberg
5. Doug Smith
6. Zach Harper

(Kurt Helin voted for Mobley)
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