Win now trade idea thread (Build around Dame!!)

[BlazersBroncos]

Ya, the Spurs idea is only if they want to make a huge FA splash this summer. Opens up 13.75M more in cap space moving Doug + another 2.35M not having that 25th pick anymore, coming out to an additional 16M in cap space.

Another idea could be something like Doug (13.75) + Langford (5.6M) + 20 (2.88M) for the TPE.

This opens 22.25M in additional cap space for SA. They could potentially have enough room to pay Zach and Ayton, and that would easily be worth pick 20.

[Blazers98]

I don’t see what Toronto would take outside 7 for OG, where I think Grant can cost less.

Same cost, easily OG. But I think there is a big cost differential. The ideal off-season is finding a way to get a Grant while keeping 7, then ideally use Bledsoe for another F while not attaching assets IMO. Not sure who, maybe BB if Utah rebuilds.

But keeping 7 for a guy who can fit win now and future building is big.

OG might be worth the 7th pick, the 7th pick has a higher upside if we nail the right pick but that is not a sure thing. Even the teams with the best draft track record since say 2010 don't always nail the right pick. They might have a good track record of getting at least a reasonable player but it's much harder to find the best player that hasn't already been drafted.

We might also see a situation where the Blazers want to use the pick if the guy they want falls to 7 and if he doesn't they have a trade setup in advance to trade it away.

I agree the 7th isnt guaranteed to be better than OG, but I also think OG is on that level Grant is where he is an elite 4th option (Better than Grant) but not good enough to move the needle much. He is about to turn 25 and its very likely that he never develops the handle to really become more than the elite 3/D guy he is. 2.5 FTA in 36mpg is pretty telling of the type of guy OG is, a great complimentary piece that relies on others to 'get his'. I want a guy that can at minimum be an average #3 offensive option if we move #7, and I dont think OG fits that mold.

I would try to cobble something together for Grant (TPE, 2 of Little / Keon / MIL25) over moving 7 for OG.

OG right now is a 3rd option IMO. He averaged 17 points last year and IMO could score 20/21 in Portland as it is now. I think there is potential for him to be a 2nd option if given the chance. But that would be a role of the dice. Is he worth the seventh pick? I'd say it is a pretty equal chance. The good thing about OG is that he can help win now while the 7th pick isn't. If the scouts see "something" special in the possible 7th pick, then go for it, but if not, then OG might be a good move.

[Case2012]

The problem with all the these moves is these guys are 3rd or 4th options not 2nd options, unless you think Simons is a legit Robin and if that's the case then it's CJ 2.0 imo. I'm not sure when you can trade a newly signed RFA, but maybe you go for the third option now and then use Simons to find a legit second option at a different position NEXT summer? Or maybe we could use Simons in a sign and trade for OG and start Hart? Use the 7th on bpa?

[Dame Lizard]

The problem with all the these moves is these guys are 3rd or 4th options not 2nd options, unless you think Simons is a legit Robin and if that's the case then it's CJ 2.0 imo. I'm not sure when you can trade a newly signed RFA, but maybe you go for the third option now and then use Simons to find a legit second option at a different position NEXT summer? Or maybe we could use Simons in a sign and trade for OG and start Hart? Use the 7th on bpa?

That is exactly why I don't want us to trade #7. I don't think we're particularly close to being a contending team, such that Grant or equivalent would change the needle much at all. I didn't think that Dallas or Memphis would be as good as they both were this year, so it's worth trying to get better obviously, but I don't think it's worth sacrificing the future much for.

I'm ok with trading #7 for OG, as he's young enough to build around with Simons if we rebuild.

[Case2012]

Building Around Simons is my nightmare. I would trade him for a wing in a second. Also I hate the sacrifice for the future narrative. What future do people envision that’s any different than the one we’ve had the last 20 years? You should always go all in whenever you can and we haven’t seen that since trader Bob. Trade Simons, trade the pick, trade anyone but Dame and put a contender together in the next 2 years by any means possible. Tired of this ***** ass franchise. I’ve never seen a team so content with being mediocre. “But we might sell the team in the next 2 years!” Who tf cares? As we’ve seen it’s pretty easy to unload future salary so why not max it out now? Tired of the BS excuses. There isn’t a single winning team in the history of the league with that attitude, and I don’t expect us to be the first. LFGOOOOOOO

[Norm2953]

Building Around Simons is my nightmare. I would trade him for a wing in a second. Also I hate the sacrifice for the future narrative. What future do people envision that’s any different than the one we’ve had the last 20 years? You should always go all in whenever you can and we haven’t seen that since trader Bob. Trade Simons, trade the pick, trade anyone but Dame and put a contender together in the next 2 years by any means possible. Tired of this ***** ass franchise. I’ve never seen a team so content with being mediocre. “But we might sell the team in the next 2 years!” Who tf cares? As we’ve seen it’s pretty easy to unload future salary so why not max it out now? Tired of the BS excuses. There isn’t a single winning team in the history of the league with that attitude, and I don’t expect us to be the first. LFGOOOOOOO

You're advocating for the leap of faith, trust in Dame and *** the future.

The thing is once again, unless Jerami Grant turns into Paul George, its not going to work for I've been watching
Portland's team since the Walton era. Those good Blazer teams were built over a period of time for the team had
to take the time to draft Lionel Hollins in the 70's, Terry Porter and Jerome Kersey in the 80's, Sheed and Bonzi (trade),
LA and B-Roy and Dame, CJ.

Those guys are not walking through the door in free agency. It's really hard to trade for those guys for just look at the
harm Billy King did to the Nets with the same type of narrative that you're proposing. Those teams that have tried
the contend at all costs plan end up having to do that same rebuild in year 3, after finishing in fourth and fifth
place in the conference and once again losing in the first round.

It takes time and real patience to do a rebuild. It takes a couple of years of lottery picks unless the team is lucky
enough to draft one of those guys. That guy is not in this draft but instead of the superstar, we can draft the guy
who can be the next superstar's #2 guy. Nobody is saying Simons is going to be the same level of Player Dame is but
he looks to be a coachable guy who will run Portland's offense the way Billips wants it tun. If the team ends up building
around Simons, he's going to need real talented team mates for he's not Dame and can't carry the team the way Dame
has tried to carry Portland.

[BlazersBroncos]

I know GSW is the pinnacle of a well run NBA team but looking at their roster really shows how far Portland is from competing.

Poole, their 6th man, is about as good as Simons - the guy we are hanging our hat on being our 2nd best player next year.
OPJ, a guy that gets like 18mpg, would almost certainly have been the best Forward on Portland last year.
Kuminga as a young talent is likely as good or better than whomever we get at 7, and we are relying on 7 to be a big contributor in 22/23 while Minga' is a 15-20mpg guy likely next season.

They have a better #1, a better #2, a better defensive anchor, a better 6th man, better young talent, better depth, a elite coach, blah blah blah.

No matter what we do its unlikely we come within a mile of how good GSW is.

[skoharry]

PHX S&T Ayton for bledsoe, Little, McCollum TPE, #7, and a future 1st. We S&T Nurkic, a 2nd, and Covington TPE for Grant. Then we re-sign Ant, McLemore, and Dunn or Smith Jr. We sign Drummond to a vets minimum. So our team would be Dame/Dunn or Smith Jr, Ant/Keon, Hart/McLemore, Grant/Winslow, and Ayton/Drummond.

[BlazersBroncos]

TPE cant be combined w/ players.

Also, moving 7 for Ayton is foolish. Keep Nurkic for 14-16M, save the difference (32M Ayton MAX - 15M Nurkic = 17M diff), draft someone good at 7, find quality forwards.

[Norm2953]

Well, if Portland wanted to max out Dame's elite years, they could do something like trade for Lebron,
which would give them 1-2 years of finishing in fourth or fifth place in the western conference. The
thing is, the fall off after Dame and Lebron are done leads to a deeper slide and more years in the
lottery.

The GSW have won titles with Klay, Dray and Steph and after Durant left, they did not panic and trade
away their FRP to try to replace him. They kept their picks and even after missing on Wiseman, kept
their head and drafted Poole, Kuminga and Moody who will be the center of their new team after
their first big 3 are done.

One can easily see Daniels as being Portland's Kiminga, a guy who will be a solid contributor for at least
5 years under his rookie contract and as a RFA

[Norm2953]

Well, if Portland wanted to max out Dame's elite years, they could do something like trade for Lebron,
which would give them 1-2 years of finishing in fourth or fifth place in the western conference. The
thing is, the fall off after Dame and Lebron are done leads to a deeper slide and more years in the
lottery.

The GSW have won titles with Klay, Dray and Steph and after Durant left, they did not panic and trade
away their FRP to try to replace him. They kept their picks and even after missing on Wiseman, kept
their head and drafted Poole, Kuminga and Moody who will be the center of their new team after
their first big 3 are done.

One can easily see Daniels as being Portland's Kiminga, a guy who will be a solid contributor for at least
5 years under his rookie contract and as a RFA

One additional thing to note is Kuminga also went 7th in last years draft and like Daniels, played for the
G League Ignite.

[BlazersBroncos]

Speaking to Daniels lateral agility, the guy posted the best shuttle run in the draft class at 2.81 seconds, next best was 2.89 by the 6' Kennedy Chandler. Thats pretty amazing.

Jake LaRavia has some of the most surprising athletic testing I have seen in a while, most thought he was just a highly skilled guy who wasnt great athletically, but the dude can move and jump.

[Norm2953]

It would indeed be stupid to deal 7 for Ayton. Id hate trading for a guy who is having issues with a good guy like Monte Williams.

If Portland wanted a big, just draft Wallace or Duren

[skoharry]

Hey if you guys want Dame to request a trade, then actually using the draft pick as it's originally intended is the way to go. I doubt anyone we draft is going to have an immediate impact. That pick is going to be traded and we all know it. Especially if we can get someone like siakim, grant, anonuby, wood, or maybe even someone like Harrison Barnes or Julius Randle. How about this
Bledsoe and Winslow for Love
Trade #7 and McCollum TPE to HOU for Gordon, Wood, and a 2nd
Resign nurkic at 8 million for 2 years with a TO on the 2nd(someone said he's worth more, but I disagree).
Re-sign Ant at 12 million for 3 years
Bring back rolo at vets minimum
Use 2nd rounders to draft PG to vie for the backup PG.
So it'd be
Dame/?
Ant/Gordon
Hart/Little
Wood/Love
Nurkic/Lopez

[Norm2953]

I always tended to think Dame's time in Portland will end much like it did with Clyde. Perhaps if Paul
were still alive, Portland would indeed move mountains for Dame.

Portland will still be open to business even if the team is going to be sold but the team is not going
to exceed the tax line under any circumstances, which was the point of the moves at last years
trade deadline. It'll be interesting to see who ends up owning the Blazers for the upcoming new
TV deal and expansion on the horizon, makes buying an NBA an attractive investment.

[Dame Lizard]

Hey if you guys want Dame to request a trade, then actually using the draft pick as it's originally intended is the way to go. I doubt anyone we draft is going to have an immediate impact. That pick is going to be traded and we all know it. Especially if we can get someone like siakim, grant, anonuby, wood, or maybe even someone like Harrison Barnes or Julius Randle. How about this
Bledsoe and Winslow for Love
Trade #7 and McCollum TPE to HOU for Gordon, Wood, and a 2nd
Resign nurkic at 8 million for 2 years with a TO on the 2nd(someone said he's worth more, but I disagree).
Re-sign Ant at 12 million for 3 years
Bring back rolo at vets minimum
Use 2nd rounders to draft PG to vie for the backup PG.
So it'd be
Dame/?
Ant/Gordon
Hart/Little
Wood/Love
Nurkic/Lopez

As much as I'd love Nurkic @ $8m per annum and Simons @ $12m per annum, I think Nurkic will get $13-14m per and Simons $25m per.

[BlazersBroncos]

Wood isn’t worth 7. I don’t think I would even do 17+Wood for 7 unless the draft board really doesn’t shake out.

[Jsun947]

If Ayton & OG are actually obtainable now seems like the right time to blow the team up and trade Lillard, especially if we were able to keep our pick in the process…

[Wizenheimer]

As much as I'd love Nurkic @ $8m per annum and Simons @ $12m per annum, I think Nurkic will get $13-14m per and Simons $25m per.

I'd say your number for Nurkic is probably right...maybe even a bit high

for a little bit I was thinking Ant might get 25M. Then I started to think about the reality that his hype is way higher in Portland than it is elsewhere; and that Blzer fans are a lot more excited about Ant than NBA front offices. And that 25M for 4th year guard who has only had a 25 game stretch of good games when the games didn't matter to his team.

so I revised my estimate downwards. Then, I actually took the time to look at teams that might have 25M in cap-space (there are only 2-4, at most, maybe less). Then I looked at their rosters....

for instance, at guard:

* San Antonio has Dejounte Murray (all-star PG), Keldon Johnson, Lonnie Walker Jr, Josh Richardson, Joshua Primo, & Devin Vassel

* Indiana has Malcolm Brogdon, Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, TC McConnell, & Chris Duarte

* Orlando has Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Terrence Ross, RJ Hampton,, Markelle Fultz and say they want to re-sign Gary Harris

* Detroit would have to renounce the rights to Marvin Bagley to even approach 25M in space (he has a 28M cap-hold). But if they re-sign him for say, 15M, the Pistons would only have 12-15M in space. Besides that, They have Cade Cunningham, Killian Hayes, Cory Joseph, Hamidou Diallo, & Frank Jackson at guard

right there, that's the potential market for a 20M+/year deal for Simons....those 4 teams. Every one of those teams are absolutely loaded at PG. So they'd have to want to offer a major contract to an undersized SG who plays poor defense and only flashed 25 games of semi-brillance, for a bad team, in 4 years in the league. I wouldn't make sense. Now obviously, every off-season some team does something that doesn't make sense and all it would take is one GM to go bonkers about Simons and Billy-King-Allen-Crabbe Portland.....but that is very unlikely

something else too: say what you will about Cronin's deadline trades, but one thing they accomplished was clearly demonstrate that Portland had every intention of re-signing Simons. The first couple of days of the off-season are critical and I have even more doubts that any team would want to tie-up their cap-space for 3 days only to have the Blazers match

personally, I don't think Nurk's market is much more than the full-MLE; and I think Ant's is less than 20M (and I could be completely wrong). What I'm hoping is that Cronin doesn't repeat the mistake Olshey made, several times, and that's bid against himself

[Blazinaway]

As much as I'd love Nurkic @ $8m per annum and Simons @ $12m per annum, I think Nurkic will get $13-14m per and Simons $25m per.

I'd say your number for Nurkic is probably right...maybe even a bit high

for a little bit I was thinking Ant might get 25M. Then I started to think about the reality that his hype is way higher in Portland than it is elsewhere; and that Blzer fans are a lot more excited about Ant than NBA front offices. And that 25M for 4th year guard who has only had a 25 game stretch of good games when the games didn't matter to his team.

so I revised my estimate downwards. Then, I actually took the time to look at teams that might have 25M in cap-space (there are only 2-4, at most, maybe less). Then I looked at their rosters....

for instance, at guard:

* San Antonio has Dejounte Murray (all-star PG), Keldon Johnson, Lonnie Walker Jr, Josh Richardson, Joshua Primo, & Devin Vassel

* Indiana has Malcolm Brogdon, Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, TC McConnell, & Chris Duarte

* Orlando has Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Terrence Ross, RJ Hampton,, Markelle Fultz and say they want to re-sign Gary Harris

* Detroit would have to renounce the rights to Marvin Bagley to even approach 25M in space (he has a 28M cap-hold). But if they re-sign him for say, 15M, the Pistons would only have 12-15M in space. Besides that, They have Cade Cunningham, Killian Hayes, Cory Joseph, Hamidou Diallo, & Frank Jackson at guard

right there, that's the potential market for a 20M+/year deal for Simons....those 4 teams. Every one of those teams are absolutely loaded at PG. So they'd have to want to offer a major contract to an undersized SG who plays poor defense and only flashed 25 games of semi-brillance, for a bad team, in 4 years in the league. I wouldn't make sense. Now obviously, every off-season some team does something that doesn't make sense and all it would take is one GM to go bonkers about Simons and Billy-King-Allen-Crabbe Portland.....but that is very unlikely

something else too: say what you will about Cronin's deadline trades, but one thing they accomplished was clearly demonstrate that Portland had every intention of re-signing Simons. The first couple of days of the off-season are critical and I have even more doubts that any team would want to tie-up their cap-space for 3 days only to have the Blazers match

personally, I don't think Nurk's market is much more than the full-MLE; and I think Ant's is less than 20M (and I could be completely wrong). What I'm hoping is that Cronin doesn't repeat the mistake Olshey made, several times, and that's bid against himself

I would think Ant would get a contract in the area of Trent (3 yrs 51 mil with incentives and 3rd yr PO)) Jr or Lonzo Ball (4 yrs 20 mil)