2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion

stayeduptolate · Post #1601 » by **stayeduptolate** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:07 am

Currryyyy!!!! 51!!!!

makaveli_99 · Post #1602 » by **makaveli_99** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:09 am

Curry is the MVP... its not really close right now.. might as well lock this up

lebron has no chance unless he ends up with a better record than GS... same goes for Harden...

Coxy · Post #1603 » by **Coxy** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:14 am

makaveli_99 wrote:Curry is the MVP... its not really close right now.. might as well lock this up

lebron has no chance unless he ends up with a better record than GS... same goes for Harden...

Lol, we haven't even rounded the all-star break. Anything can happen.

Soca · Post #1604 » by **Soca** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:22 am

Nothing barring injury is taking MVP away from Curry.

Dame Lizard · Post #1605 » by **Dame Lizard** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 9:05 am

I really hope he stays healthy, as what Curry is doing is absolutely freakish and stunning to watch.

I'm absolutely not taking anything away from LBJ and KD, they are already both all time greats, but with their rare combinations of body type and athleticism, they can stuff the stat sheet in ways that Curry can't (rebounds and blocks). Their elite skill adds the scoring and assists.

Curry's really comes down to one thing, pure skill. He doesn't have that freakish body or athleticism, which makes this season so far for Curry, very special.

RoundMoundOfReb · Post #1606 » by **RoundMoundOfReb** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 9:12 am

I think Hawks' Starting Five deserves some consideration. He's a great player.

TimRobbins · Post #1607 » by **TimRobbins** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 9:40 am

Soca wrote:Nothing barring injury is taking MVP away from Curry.

This. Only two months to go.

olive_triangurl · Post #1608 » by **olive_triangurl** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 1:52 pm

If Curry has a season-ending injury today then I'm certain Harden will win it, because he's able to win without Dwight (and Dwight's absence therefore makes Harden even more MVP-worthy) and he's in the West which means if Houston and Cleveland have the same win/loss record then Harden gets the nod over LeBron.
But anyway, Curry just has to show up and he's won MVP, even if he averages less than 20ppg and 40%fg from now on.
The precedent was already set (or reinforced) when Rose won MVP, you don't have to be the best player in the NBA, as its more about team success (if you have the best regular season team and you are a superstar or borderline superstar, then you win MVP).
That's why Finals MVP is a bigger achievement.
You can prove more about your greatness (if you have any) by dominating the NBA Finals than by dominating the regular season.
Its extremely rare and hard to score 50+ in a playoff game (and almost impossible to score 60+, as Jordan's 63 has been the record forever), and its unheard of in an NBA Finals since Jordan's 55 in 1993.

kaiballz · Post #1609 » by **kaiballz** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 1:55 pm

Dame Lizard wrote:I really hope he stays healthy, as what Curry is doing is absolutely freakish and stunning to watch.

I'm absolutely not taking anything away from LBJ and KD, they are already both all time greats, but with their rare combinations of body type and athleticism, they can stuff the stat sheet in ways that Curry can't (rebounds and blocks). Their elite skill adds the scoring and assists.

Curry's really comes down to one thing, pure skill. He doesn't have that freakish body or athleticism, which makes this season so far for Curry, very special.

steph IS pure skill indeed

olive_triangurl · Post #1610 » by **olive_triangurl** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 1:59 pm

kaiballz wrote:
steph IS pure skill indeed

He's a less skillful version of Steve Nash, but then again defense is a skill and Curry is better defensively maybe.

olive_triangurl · Post #1611 » by **olive_triangurl** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 2:17 pm

Is Curry a better shooter than Nash?
And Nash was really good off-balance too.

Nash played 1217 games and shot .490fg and .428 downtown.
Curry played 383 games and shot .470fg and .434 downtown.

Nash played 120 playoff games and shot .473fg and .406 downtown.
Curry played 19 playoff games and shot .436fg and .398 downtown.

TaylorMonkey · Post #1612 » by **TaylorMonkey** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 3:01 pm

olive_triangurl wrote:Is Curry a better shooter than Nash?
And Nash was really good off-balance too.

Nash played 1217 games and shot .490fg and .428 downtown.
Curry played 383 games and shot .470fg and .434 downtown.

Nash played 120 playoff games and shot .473fg and .406 downtown.
Curry played 19 playoff games and shot .436fg and .398 downtown.

From distance Curry is. Curry shoots on higher volume and more unassisted shots. His degree of difficulty puts him above Nash. I've looked at the numbers before and they favor Curry, though this may have been before the drop off that started last season due to having a heavier scoring and playmaking role. I can't really explain this year's drop off but it's apparent that Curry takes a fair amount of "bad" shots.

Playoff Curry was hobbled for 2/3 of his games with defenses pretty much focusing only on his shot in a shallow offensive system so that comparison has a lot of low sample set/extenuating context issues involved.

And Curry is leading all time 2 pt FG% this season for a guard last I checked, so he's catching up with Nash in overall shooting if he hasn't surpassed him already.

HotRocks34 · Post #1613 » by **HotRocks34** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 3:16 pm

LeBron is close to fully entering the discussion if/when the Cavs get to Top 3 in the East. That's kind of a recent cutoff point (Top 3 in conference) for MVP award winners. The Cavs are #4 in the East now after having passed up Chicago last night. They're closing in on Washington and Toronto, as well.

Being #1 in the conference or the NBA has not been critical to MVP success. It helps, for sure, but it's not crucial. Recent examples:

Nash 2005-06 ------------> 3rd best record in the West; 4th best record in the NBA
LeBron 2011-12 ----------> 2nd best record in the East; 3rd best record in the NBA
Durant 2013-14 ----------> 2nd best record in the West; 2nd best record in the NBA

Still, Curry (and Harden) is/are ahead of LeBron by team record and advanced stats. There's a lot of ground to make up, but before LeBron had no chance at all. Now he's more fully into the discussion or on the cusp of being so.

1. Curry
2. Harden
3. LeBron
4. Gasol? Davis? Other?

I heard Lowe talking on Twitter the other day mentioning how he could see voting for Davis or LeBron (as opposed to, say, Curry or Harden). LeBron does seem to have some NBA Insider types behind him, but there's still a ways for him and the Cavs to go in order to get there. Harden/Houston may drop off some with Howard out, but Curry/Golden State look like the real mountain to climb at the moment.

inquisitive · Post #1614 » by **inquisitive** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 3:26 pm

As long as the Rockets keep winning, i think Harden might get it especially with Dwight out...still a ways to go with 30 or so games.

cdubbz · Post #1615 » by **cdubbz** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 7:20 pm

STEPH CURRY!!!!! Oh man. The crazy thing is Curry only plays 33 mpg.

Bondman · Post #1616 » by **Bondman** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 8:07 pm

TaylorMonkey - re: Curry's 3pt%... maybe the increased attention to his defense is taking away from his lift & accuracy?

HotRocks34 - sure, it's not an absolute requirement to have the best league/conference record, but having the #1 record is more critical than being #1 in any advanced stat, and far more critical than being #1 in any box score stat.

Meh, I'm probably quibbling about how we define "critical". Maybe I should just say winning is more important than stats.

I suggest that top-2 seed may be a more appropriate cutoff: 31/34 = 91% of media-voted MVPs. Using top-3 seed as a cutoff only adds 88 Jordan and 81 Erving.

young_frogger · Post #1617 » by **young_frogger** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 9:00 pm

Steph is the MVP and I don't see how he doesn't win this barring injury. It has nothing to do with any 'golden boy' narrative, he genuinely deserves it. His raw numbers aren't what they should be since he's only playing 33 minutes, but that can be attributed partially to all the Warriors' blowouts, and a cautious Steve Kerr. He may not be 'clearly' the best player in the league, but honestly that line has been pretty blurry this season and with the Warriors' success its hard to argue when he is clearly in the top 3-4.

Lebron is still the best for now, but the gap between him and Steph isn't all that great. Steph has become the more efficient scorer and is a better playmaker, also plays great defense for his position while Lebron's D has lacked consistency. Healthy Kevin Durant is probably better, but we haven't seen much of him this season and Steph's offense is arguably just as good. With Harden and Davis it is debatable. I personally think Steph is the better player than Harden, just by a hair, on both ends of the floor. Davis is more difficult to compare because he's a big man, he undoubtedly makes a greater defensive impact, but Steph is still the superior offensive player as of now. At the end of the day, his team is too awful for him to win it and it sucks that that will be held against him, but it is what it is.

I think the fact that Steph is the best Point Guard in the league-which is by far the most loaded position, also speaks volumes as to how good he is. I can't remember the last time it was so difficult to distinguish who is the best out of the top 5 but for now, it is Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden and Davis for the 'best player in the league' mantra and then a steep drop off. (Also quite cool how you well the top 5 forms a pretty great lineup, position-wise.) Back in the day, it was Kobe vs Lebron vs Wade (for one season) then it was Lebron vs Durant, but now honestly all 5 of these guys have a pretty strong case for best in the world. But out of those 5, Steph has by far the best team, which will make it damn near impossible to not give him the award.

young_frogger · Post #1618 » by **young_frogger** » Thu Feb 5, 2015 9:08 pm

olive_triangurl wrote:
stayeduptolate wrote:
olive_triangurl wrote:
His mouth-guard, his personality and the way he falls over after attempting almost wide-open threes.....

fair enough so I am guessing you do not want him to be a Hornet?

The only player I'd add to the current Hornets team without hesitation is Wiggins.
The only Golden State players I'd consider adding would be Klay Thompson and Bogut (especially if Bogut wasn't so injury-prone).

So you wouldn't add Durant, Davis, Lebron, Aldridge, or Ha$$an to the Hornets without hesitation?

kaiballz · Post #1619 » by **kaiballz** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 1:03 am

tredigs wrote:
olive_triangurl wrote:Is Curry a better shooter than Nash?
And Nash was really good off-balance too.

Nash played 1217 games and shot .490fg and .428 downtown.
Curry played 383 games and shot .470fg and .434 downtown.

Nash played 120 playoff games and shot .473fg and .406 downtown.
Curry played 19 playoff games and shot .436fg and .398 downtown.

Set shooter? They're close. But to compare the level of difficulty/volume of Curry's scoring to Nash's is... off. To say the least. Nash also spent his prime years alongside two of the more dominant offensive big men in the modern era (as well as elite role players) who drew a massive amount of attention. He has never been a #1, and did not command anywhere close to the gravity that Curry does (who, now that we can track the stat - leads the league in "gravity" by a vast margin). Simply via eye test, it seems pretty clear that Curry is just on another level from Nash skill wise (array of moves, handles, defensive ability, rebounding ability, tough shots, etc), and advanced stats wise he has him pretty well trumped across the board.

nash isn't just a set shooter, he was one badass man.

but steph wins on everything aside from bball iq. which is nothing to be ashamed of because steve nash has otherworldly bball iq.

olive_triangurl · Post #1620 » by **olive_triangurl** » Fri Feb 6, 2015 1:23 am

young_frogger wrote:
olive_triangurl wrote:
stayeduptolate wrote:
fair enough so I am guessing you do not want him to be a Hornet?

The only player I'd add to the current Hornets team without hesitation is Wiggins.
The only Golden State players I'd consider adding would be Klay Thompson and Bogut (especially if Bogut wasn't so injury-prone).

So you wouldn't add Durant, Davis, Lebron, Aldridge, or Ha$$an to the Hornets without hesitation?

I don't like tampering with the current Hornets team, so I'd only make one change.
And if I'm going to make one change it would be adding my favorite player - Wiggins.
And I'd rather die than add LeBron to my team, as he's the worst personality in the NBA (his love for himself is a disgrace to humanity).