Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[bwgood77]

Obviously too soon to be sold on Elfrid, but if he continues to put up solid numbers until seasons end, does that change our draft strategy?

I think the Heat will give us the 12 or 13 spot and the bucks will give us that 16 or 17 spot. Do we go after a 4 and 5 in this deep 4/5 draft?

I think that 7 spot has a lot value without carrying the weight of a top 3 or top 5 pick, but you can still get a 'potential' generational type player who could have arguably been a top 3 or 5 pick. Looking at the number 7 in most mocks usually has one of the 4 in this spot: bagley, bamba, porter and *young ...not a 4 or 5, but great value pick!

We potentially have 4 picks that would require a roster spot (high 1st, heat, bucks and a high 2nd). Quality over quantity?

Option 1: heat pick plus bucks pick for the number 7? Is that too much, not enough? We still have a high 2nd to offer? Ayton or Docnic with any of those 4 at 7 seems legit.

Option 2: heat pick plus suns high 2nd round pick and chriss for number 7? Im guessing, lets say, ayton, porter or bagley, and bender would make Chriss the odd man out? Then take Shai, Simmons or Mitchell with the bucks pick.

Or

Option 3: bucks pick, marquisse chriss, suns early 2nd round pick, another filler pick and or player and maybe grab an ayton, bagley/porter/bamba an colin sexton with the heat pick...unless we get Young.

I dunno....not even sure how to determine 7 spot value from a trading standpoint, but I think its an attractive and obtainable spot.

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

Heat pick have one of easiest schedules left...look at their easy games... http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength and they are only 2 games out of sitting in the 21 spot...I think late teens..worst case early 20s...Milwaukee in 23rd slot right now. http://www.tankathon.com/

[thamadkant]

If Suns draft someone like JJJ or Ayton.

They may have an issue with having too many young bigs that need minutes.


I think Chriss is the odd man out. On court... He may not get it ever... Or it may be too late... Like Michael Beasley

[Qwigglez]

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

Heat pick have one of easiest schedules left...look at their easy games... http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength and they are only 2 games out of sitting in the 21 spot...I think late teens..worst case early 20s...Milwaukee in 23rd slot right now. http://www.tankathon.com/

IDK what McD was thinking with the reverse protection. Giannis hasn't even peaked, their entire roster is still young. They are going to improve every year for at least the next 3 years IMO. I think maybe they were assuming Bledsoe would decline enough to make the Bucks get worse eventually, but being in the East, I just don't see that happening. Would have been okay with no reverse protection at all.

[Qwigglez]

If Suns draft someone like JJJ or Ayton.

They may have an issue with having too many young bigs that need minutes.


I think Chriss is the odd man out. On court... He may not get it ever... Or it may be too late... Like Michael Beasley

Except Beasley had basketball talent where Chriss just has athleticism.

[thamadkant]

I'm sold on JJJ or Ayton now...

Which means Suns need a veteran big man to help with the load.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

Heat pick have one of easiest schedules left...look at their easy games... http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength and they are only 2 games out of sitting in the 21 spot...I think late teens..worst case early 20s...Milwaukee in 23rd slot right now. http://www.tankathon.com/

IDK what McD was thinking with the reverse protection. Giannis hasn't even peaked, their entire roster is still young. They are going to improve every year for at least the next 3 years IMO. I think maybe they were assuming Bledsoe would decline enough to make the Bucks get worse eventually, but being in the East, I just don't see that happening. Would have been okay with no reverse protection at all.

It's simple. McD most wants a high pick, but if he can't get a high pick, he'd prefer it be deferred so as to maintain the liquid value of the pick.

[Djedefre]

If the heat pick is late lotto I would trade the suns pick in 2019 with minimal protection to move up into the top 7 if we can. I don't like the 2019 draft much and think any of the top 7 would be riggt there with 19's draft.

I think Barrett is special. Then you also have Reddish and Zion at Duke, Langford, King, Shittu, Bol Bol...

EDIT: Software is censoring Simi’s surname lol

[bwgood77]

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

Heat pick have one of easiest schedules left...look at their easy games... http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength and they are only 2 games out of sitting in the 21 spot...I think late teens..worst case early 20s...Milwaukee in 23rd slot right now. http://www.tankathon.com/

IDK what McD was thinking with the reverse protection. Giannis hasn't even peaked, their entire roster is still young. They are going to improve every year for at least the next 3 years IMO. I think maybe they were assuming Bledsoe would decline enough to make the Bucks get worse eventually, but being in the East, I just don't see that happening. Would have been okay with no reverse protection at all.

It's really probably better to get the pick in 2020 anyway, considering we have two this year, will, one last year, and two the year before. Probably good to stagger it a bit bringing in two first rounders....also gives you time to assess your young guys a bit longer before deciding if they are cornerstones, starters, rotation players, busts, etc.

[cberry78]

I would consider trading Payton for Ball, but even that is risky. Don't really want Lavar around or his brothers.

I would consider trading a basketball for Ball, but only if the Lakers include a ball rack for Booker to practice with.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Bye-Bye Beastmode Bender and that wonderful spacing.

Warren doesn't provide much better spacing...so if Booker is playing is Jackson back to the bench?

It's more that Bender doesn't clog the lane for guys like Warren and Jackson.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Bye-Bye Beastmode Bender and that wonderful spacing.

Warren doesn't provide much better spacing...so if Booker is playing is Jackson back to the bench?

It's more that Bender doesn't clog the lane for guys like Warren and Jackson.

Yeah I was just editing to say that at least with Warren/Jackson slashing, no one is in the way, and then just deleted post, but you had already responded.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Get the feeling Jackson will be happy with Triano gone.

[Sunzgunz]

We probably won't get the Bucks pick and the Heat pick will likely be in the late teens. And no team in the top 7 is trading out of this stacked top 7 draft for a pick in the teens and a pick next year. They need talent now too....the bottom 8 teams are all really bad.

I disagree. Heat could be 12 through 14; buck pick im not as sold on, but i think 16 or 17 is possible.

The 12th, 16th, *31st and Chriss for the number 7 maybe? I dont know for certain if any team will, but i know you dont know for certain every team wont

Heat pick have one of easiest schedules left...look at their easy games... http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength and they are only 2 games out of sitting in the 21 spot...I think late teens..worst case early 20s...Milwaukee in 23rd slot right now. http://www.tankathon.com/

Thanks for posting that link, I read it again!

Now, with the assumption that i used more than magic 8 ball to form 'MY OPINION.'

Since the official Blake trade:

Philly 6-2 (easiest remaining schedule)
Pistons 6-3
Heat 1-8

You're right, going into tonight's game Detroit's strength of schedule is harder than Miami's, bbut by the narrowest of margins, .013.

The Heat, not playing well as of late, are essentially 1.5 games ahead of the Pistons for that final 8th spot (they have one more game against each other). If Pistons, who are playing better as of late, with virtually idential schedule stregnth going into tonights game, get that 8 spot.....Heat drop to picks 12-14.

Bucks are a little trickier, but they're looking at a tough 9 game stretch that will determine if we can expect their pick this year or not. If you're bottom 4 playoffs spots in the east, as of now, you want that 5 or 8 spot. Bucks will get in the playoffs, curious to their final stretch approach if this 9 game stretch puts them closer to the 8 spot. I prefer 2020 myself....but...

As for a possible draft trade...way too soon to say it wont happen. Unlikely? Ok! But what if dallas or sac get that 7th spot and trae is the 7th man waiting....they wouldnt consider grabbing the 12 AND the 17, or chriss, if they would be forced to grab carter, knox, williams or one of the bridges instead of Trae.

Or if a team like the magic has the 7 spot, young is off the board, they want sexton, you can probably get him at the 12 spot and we give you another draft pick a few spots down, hell, well throw in our high 2nd round pick you initially tried to get for Elfrid. I dont know they would, dont know they wouldnt.

[jredsaz]

There is no upside for Booker to wait for his big payday. Even suggesting such an idea to him and his agent would go over like a lead balloon. The extension has already been mentioned in the local press and Booker has stated he would sign it. The Suns have been selling Booker as their franchise cornerstone and star and to suggest he goes another year being underpaid (as compared to his draft class) sends a very negative message to him, the general fanbase, and the season ticket holder base (I am a member and Booker's presence was a big selling point). It also suggests to Booker he does not even deserve the same treatment that Warren got, who extended after his third year.

With respect to financial, it would be a big hit to Booker from which he could not recover. You can do the math, but deferring $25M for a year and assuming he has the same career length - the money is never recoverable. As pointed out, an injury scenario would be devastating.

Finally, the last thing you want is for him to hit free agency, even if the Suns have rights of first refusal. Other teams get a chance to recruit him for unrestricted free agency and potentially set the calendar for when he becomes one. Does anyone even think the notion of pursuing an unknown free agent by preserving cap space is worth this? No amount of sitting down with him and "explaining" will undo the negative messages. Actions are much louder than words.

This is an idiotic notion that needs to be put to rest - 6 feet under.

No one really expects him *not* to sign his extension. But if he did agree to delay his extension by a year, there's potentially a lot we could do roster wise. Not saying he'll buy into it but imo approaching the topic is not a negative because it's not like we're withholding the deal and forcing him to defer. The money is STILL on the table, the extension is STILL on the table and it's more likely just an option that he can choose to or not take.

FWIW I was the first to suggest this as an option

I have to agree with JD. Booker is signing that extention the minute the Suns are able to do it. First, It's the classy move for the franchise. Second, in the player centric NBA the Suns need to fully committ to Booker - because it's what will make them better. More so than the star free agent they are most likely not signing with that extra $13 million in the sunner of 2019, keeping booker close to and as happy with the franchise as possible is what is going to win in the long run.

In the end I think it's a trade that will acquire an all star caliber player, as it always is with the Suns.

[lilfishi22]

There is no upside for Booker to wait for his big payday. Even suggesting such an idea to him and his agent would go over like a lead balloon. The extension has already been mentioned in the local press and Booker has stated he would sign it. The Suns have been selling Booker as their franchise cornerstone and star and to suggest he goes another year being underpaid (as compared to his draft class) sends a very negative message to him, the general fanbase, and the season ticket holder base (I am a member and Booker's presence was a big selling point). It also suggests to Booker he does not even deserve the same treatment that Warren got, who extended after his third year.

With respect to financial, it would be a big hit to Booker from which he could not recover. You can do the math, but deferring $25M for a year and assuming he has the same career length - the money is never recoverable. As pointed out, an injury scenario would be devastating.

Finally, the last thing you want is for him to hit free agency, even if the Suns have rights of first refusal. Other teams get a chance to recruit him for unrestricted free agency and potentially set the calendar for when he becomes one. Does anyone even think the notion of pursuing an unknown free agent by preserving cap space is worth this? No amount of sitting down with him and "explaining" will undo the negative messages. Actions are much louder than words.

This is an idiotic notion that needs to be put to rest - 6 feet under.

No one really expects him *not* to sign his extension. But if he did agree to delay his extension by a year, there's potentially a lot we could do roster wise. Not saying he'll buy into it but imo approaching the topic is not a negative because it's not like we're withholding the deal and forcing him to defer. The money is STILL on the table, the extension is STILL on the table and it's more likely just an option that he can choose to or not take.

FWIW I was the first to suggest this as an option

I have to agree with JD. Booker is signing that extention the minute the Suns are able to do it. First, It's the classy move for the franchise. Second, in the player centric NBA the Suns need to fully committ to Booker - because it's what will make them better. More so than the star free agent they are most likely not signing with that extra $13 million in the sunner of 2019, keeping booker close to and as happy with the franchise as possible is what is going to win in the long run.

In the end I think it's a trade that will acquire an all star caliber player, as it always is with the Suns.

IMO he expects an extension, we expect an extension so bringing this to him is just part of due diligence. We should definitely broach the subject to see if it's something he'd do for us. If not, that's perfectly fine, we all expect him to sign it anyway. But if he didn't and deferred it to the following season, there's definitely some flexibility in the salary cap which would be advantageous to everyone.

The extra $13m is not necessarily just for a star, it could be a star role player or it could be used for a even a Dedmon type role player too. It's all about shoring up the roster with capable and productive stars/role players *around* Booker.

[NavLDO]

I know some of these creative extension scenarios with booker sound good in theory but its not going to happen. The first big extension is a life changing amount of money and no player or anyone advising them will do anything but want to get that done as soon as its available. Theres a reason no player has EVER turned down a max rookie extension.

Its easy for us fans to say 'just wait and sign that extension in the summer of 19' but when you have the chance to guarantee yourself over $100mil you do it. Lifes unpredictable and injuries happen its just too big of a risk to ask of a guy.

If they beleive in booker you just get it done this summer. I know these aren't exactly the same circumstances but a couple teams in recent history have hurt themselves with messing around extending stars. Love was pissed they wouldn't give him the 5 year max and that started his eventual leaving. Gordon hayward would still be under contract with the jazz had they extended him instead of letting him hit RFA and matching his deal.

Yep. That makes sense. However, so does the fact that the GM being able to convince the player NOT to take the Max until we get a FA or Trade under contract first. So maybe it's not a whole year, but just a couple of months?

I think (and this is just an example), if we were able sign get Boogie's interest, and told Booker "Hey, we are trying to get Boogie under contract, can you wait a few weeks for us to iron this out?" I'm sure he'd be ok with that.

But absolutely, we need to sign him this summer, if that is what is supposed to happen, and the right thing to do (I'm not overly clear, as you can tell, on how this all works).

But worst case scenario, we do the best we can in the draft, we sign both Booker and Elfrid, which, I fear, is going to be closer to $12-16M per vs $8M per, as some are thinking, and we attempt to compete with what we have so far, until Dudley, Chandler, and BK are resolved.

I'm thinking, if Elfrid maintains something anywhere close to what he's putting up now, say 15/7/5 with at least 37% on 2 Att/Gm, we do everything we can to keep him, draft JJJ and SJA, and move on.

Elfrid / Booker / JJ / Bender / JJJ

SJA / Reed / Warren / Chris / Sauce

+ what ever 2nd Rd picks we get

See what we can do with those, and think about stretching BK next summer for funds...

[Djedefre]

That’s a lot of jays in the starting lineup

[BobbieL]

Payton with a triple double
early returns are positive

This guy might change plans for McD this summer - in a good way though

See what he does the last 23 games with Booker though

Getting him some shooters would help his assist total -

[Sreister]

I wouldn't trade Josh Jackson for Ball right now.

I wouldn't have even drafted Ball ahead of Jackson, let alone take him now. I want ZERO to do with that clown. I like the IDEA of his game, big and pass first mentality, but watching him pisses me off. Hearing about him and his Dad pisses me off more. Not touching that train wreck of a family. Glad we got over our BROTHER obsession.

[Frank Lee]

I wouldn't trade Josh Jackson for Ball right now.

I wouldn't have even drafted Ball ahead of Jackson, let alone take him now. I was ZERO to do with that clown. I like the IDEA of his game, big and pass first mentality, but watching him pisses me off. Hearing about him and his Dad pisses me off more. Not touching that train wreck of a family. Glad we got over our BROTHER obsession.

Dont look now, but we could draft two Bros this year.

Porter 1 and Porter 2