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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1621 » by FFBlitzace » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:22 am

Ducklett wrote:Yall already turning on Bamba? And Isaac too as of a few games ago. I can't keep up with this forum anymore.


First of all, like I've said numerous times, I acknowledge that his defense looks very much like a rookie. He'll have plays where he'll block a shot and we go "MO BAMBA" but more often than not, hes making rookie mistakes. That being said, I think our standards for interior defense have become unrealistic over the years. We've complained about Vuc so much and how little resistance he offered (he's been better this year, so don't come at me, Vuc people) and we got desperate for good interior defense. Ibaka and Biyombo came along and we really hyped ourselves up on it, making ourselves believe that it was going to be impossible to score on them. Finally, great interior defense! But then that team was very disjointed and it didn't work. Biyombo couldn't cover the entire opposing team on pick and rolls with DJ, and his smaller height does let him down sometimes. Ibaka was never really engaged. We traded Ibaka, but as time went on with Biyombo, people started calling him a terrible defender. Which wasn't really accurate, but at that point, it was "block and change every shot and never get scored on" or bust. And I think we're kinda still in that mode with how we evaluate a big man who's supposed to be a good rim protector. "What, he got scored on? Trash."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1622 » by VFX » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:38 am

FFBlitzace wrote:
Ducklett wrote:Yall already turning on Bamba? And Isaac too as of a few games ago. I can't keep up with this forum anymore.


First of all, like I've said numerous times, I acknowledge that his defense looks very much like a rookie. He'll have plays where he'll block a shot and we go "MO BAMBA" but more often than not, hes making rookie mistakes. That being said, I think our standards for interior defense have become unrealistic over the years. We've complained about Vuc so much and how little resistance he offered (he's been better this year, so don't come at me, Vuc people) and we got desperate for good interior defense. Ibaka and Biyombo came along and we really hyped ourselves up on it, making ourselves believe that it was going to be impossible to score on them. Finally, great interior defense! But then that team was very disjointed and it didn't work. Biyombo couldn't cover the entire opposing team on pick and rolls with DJ, and his smaller height does let him down sometimes. Ibaka was never really engaged. We traded Ibaka, but as time went on with Biyombo, people started calling him a terrible defender. Which wasn't really accurate, but at that point, it was "block and change every shot and never get scored on" or bust. And I think we're kinda still in that mode with how we evaluate a big man who's supposed to be a good rim protector. "What, he got scored on? Trash."


Both Bamba and Isaac are essentially rookies and they will be much better when they get their legs in given minutes. I’m glad the argument that Isaac could be a “3” is pretty much dead at this point considering Iwundu and Ross are starting over him as an option. Isaac developing any shred of an offensive game will help immensely. IMO I think they have to choose between Isaac and AG eventually.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1623 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:39 am

The game is too fast for Bamba right now. He'll slowly start adjusting.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1624 » by fendilim » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 am

Expecting Bamba to contribute right away is just absurd.

We already saw it in summer league. The game is too fast for him right now. It will take time for him to develop. Its like playing men against boys for rookie bigs. And Bamba isnt even built to handle that yet.

Add to that he is playing as a backup for Vuc. Thats like a very high standard with the way Vuc is playing out of his mind.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1625 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:48 am

We all knew Bamba would be yet another project.....the Hammond special. What would this team look like with Trae Young or Luka in that starting PG spot? I am not expecting big things from Bamba until prob mid to end of next season. He has alot of building and learning to do. Im more excited about Isaac. We need him back in that SL.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1626 » by DiplomaticMagic » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:22 am

Russell and Dinwiddie had great games tonight, I'm really warming up to the option of 1 of them next summer.

I like both over Rozier and think they both will be cheaper
Keep Isaac
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1627 » by Furinkazan » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:11 am

Ducklett wrote:Yall already turning on Bamba? And Isaac too as of a few games ago. I can't keep up with this forum anymore.


Its nothing new on there boards though.You Ve been around You should get used to it by now. :lol:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1628 » by Furinkazan » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:13 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:Russell and Dinwiddie had great games tonight, I'm really warming up to the option of 1 of them next summer.

I like both over Rozier and think they both will be cheaper



Yeah.They both looked amazing.I wonder what will Nets do and who they choose.
What if they choose to keep both though? :wink:
as it works for them.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1629 » by pepe1991 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:50 am

Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice,and would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1630 » by Skybox » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:14 am

pepe1991 wrote:Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice that it would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).


I was about to type same thing. How is it that other teams draft players that can produce in their first couple of years, instead
of being a farm team?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1631 » by ReadyOrlando » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:34 pm

Bamba is far from NBA ready, and I'm fine with it...because we have Vuc. We need to re-sign Vuc so that Bamba can develop under him at his own pace.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1632 » by Def Swami » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:38 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice,and would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).

It took Siakam time to develop as well. We can expect a similar approach for both Isaac and Bamba.

The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse. Isaac and Bamba are in nice roles where they can refine their games and learn, and learn in a winning environment.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1633 » by MagicFrenchie » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:36 pm

Def Swami wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice,and would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).

It took Siakam time to develop as well. We can expect a similar approach for both Isaac and Bamba.

The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse. Isaac and Bamba are in nice roles where they can refine their games and learn, and learn in a winning environment.


Exactly what I'm saying this season, winning is much more valuable than tanking.
People have difficulties to accept that those last years but everything will be easier in a winning environment: rookies development, draft, free agents.
I mean look at the Spurs, everything that goes there get instantly better.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1634 » by pepe1991 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:42 pm

MagicFrenchie wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice,and would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).

It took Siakam time to develop as well. We can expect a similar approach for both Isaac and Bamba.

The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse. Isaac and Bamba are in nice roles where they can refine their games and learn, and learn in a winning environment.


Exactly what I'm saying this season, winning is much more valuable than tanking.
People have difficulties to accept that those last years but everything will be easier in a winning environment: rookies development, draft, free agents.
I mean look at the Spurs, everything that goes there get instantly better.


Tanking isn't even as valuable as it was year ago.
You can have worst record and draft 5th. Matter of fact you have most chance to draft 5th.

6th worst record by odds will most likley draft 8th.

Also Hawks and Suns are already kind a tanking. Don't know how else explain Lin not starting over Young.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1635 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:26 pm

ReadyOrlando wrote:Bamba is far from NBA ready, and I'm fine with it...because we have Vuc. We need to re-sign Vuc so that Bamba can develop under him at his own pace.

I totally agree with this. Keep Vuc.. let bamba develop and fill in the bench. When he blossoms... decisions can be made. Looking at him... he's just really tentative to throw what little weight he has around.... but his awareness will come around on the court. Clifford will drill it into him. Haha... he helped make Cody Zeller a decent defender.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1636 » by Raider_MXD » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:33 pm

Def Swami wrote:The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse.

Well, a season with some degree of success now and then helps to retain an audience.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1637 » by jayrehme » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Raider_MXD wrote:
Def Swami wrote:The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse.

Well, a season with some degree of success now and then helps to retain an audience.


I enjoyed our heart and hustle team, although half the board would whine that we were winning too many games. The year after we signed tmac, grant hill, and almost tim duncan..... winning attracts good players, NOT high draft picks, that more likely than not turn into nothing anyways.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1638 » by VFX » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:42 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFrenchie wrote:
Def Swami wrote:It took Siakam time to develop as well. We can expect a similar approach for both Isaac and Bamba.

The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse. Isaac and Bamba are in nice roles where they can refine their games and learn, and learn in a winning environment.


Exactly what I'm saying this season, winning is much more valuable than tanking.
People have difficulties to accept that those last years but everything will be easier in a winning environment: rookies development, draft, free agents.
I mean look at the Spurs, everything that goes there get instantly better.


Tanking isn't even as valuable as it was year ago.
You can have worst record and draft 5th. Matter of fact you have most chance to draft 5th.

6th worst record by odds will most likley draft 8th.

Also Hawks and Suns are already kind a tanking. Don't know how else explain Lin not starting over Young.


This is the point though right? Hawks are actually playing players that are their future rather than specifically to win games in the now. They are doing it right in my opinion because they are giving Young minutes over players that would probably will them to wins, giving him in game experience, and will still get a high draft pick.

The Magic are focused so much on wins it will probably come at the expense of giving minutes to Bamba and Isaac over Vuc and AG at some point, delaying the inevitable. Hell, I’m even starting to seriously doubt that they trade Vuc because he’s playing out of his mind right now in a contract year (surprise). Way to put yourself in a precarious situation as a GM if you don’t sell high and trade him. Specifically because this current roster is exceeding expectations, but I still couldn’t see them getting past the first round in a series.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1639 » by OrlandoNed » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:45 pm

jayrehme wrote:
Raider_MXD wrote:
Def Swami wrote:The story on this season is that the Magic aren't tanking. This isn't a year for development. They're full steam ahead toward a playoff run, for better or worse.

Well, a season with some degree of success now and then helps to retain an audience.


I enjoyed our heart and hustle team, although half the board would whine that we were winning too many games. The year after we signed tmac, grant hill, and almost tim duncan..... winning attracts good players, NOT high draft picks, that more likely than not turn into nothing anyways.

And where were those players in their respective drafts? I'll give you a hint: it's 9th, 3rd and 1st overall. Those high draft picks more often than not are where those good players come from in the first place before they have to be convinced to sign somewhere as a free agent years later.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#1640 » by Nightman » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:52 pm

When we started this brutal 8 game stretch of: PHI, LAL, NYK, TOR, @DEN, @LAL, @GSW, @POR, I said I'd be very impressed if we finished 4-4. So at 4-2 they've already impressed me. If we can steal one more win against either the Warriors or Trailblazers, I'll be ecstatic.

Also worth noting that we're at .500 after playing the 3rd hardest schedule in the east so far, behind only the Bucks and the Wizards.

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